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England in the AIs

It's the choice of Age and proven track-record (with poor form) or Youth and potential (with excellent form but an iffy temperament). I'd lean towards Wally for the All Blacks but play Hartley in the other tests.

Still, it's better now then the days of [strike]**** or not quite as ****[/strike] Chuter or Mears.

also yer i guess that a shaw lawes combo is not that great from a line out perspective but isnt croft supposed to be awsome at line outs or am i just emagining this?

If Palmer is a good lineout general, the lineout will be fine with him and Lawes - I doubt very much that MJ will pick both enforcers and leave the set-piece shakey. Same reason that Shaw and Jonno never played together and Kay was so successful.
 
yer i guess i agree but just think of the carnage in the scrum with a lawes shaw comboexpecially since lawes has bulked up a bit this season we would have australia's pack beggin for mercy
 
It's the choice of Age and proven track-record (with poor form) or Youth and potential (with excellent form but an iffy temperament). I'd lean towards Wally for the All Blacks but play Hartley in the other tests.

Still, it's better now then the days of [strike]**** or not quite as ****[/strike] Chuter or Mears.



If Palmer is a good lineout general, the lineout will be fine with him and Lawes - I doubt very much that MJ will pick both enforcers and leave the set-piece shakey. Same reason that Shaw and Jonno never played together and Kay was so successful.

Definately agree about Palmer, has done nothing but good things since returning to the team vs. France. Reckon Shaw's days are numbered, what with Attwood coming through amongst others.
 
I'd defo pick Thompson over Hartley (atm) - his set piece work is stronger, though I feel Hartley offers more around the field (his work rate for Saints is out of this world, and he doesn't seem to tire) - Thompson for 50-60 and Hartley for the rest for the "big" tests, and vice versa for the "smaller" tests. As long as Chuter doesn't get a look in I'm happy (nothing particularly against the guy, I just don't want him worming his way into the squad long term - we've already got the experienced old head in Thompson, no need to get Chuter in there for old times sake as well)
 
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I'd defo pick Thompson over Hartley (atm) - his set piece work is stronger, though I feel Hartley offers more around the field (his work rate for Saints is out of this world, and he doesn't seem to tire) - Thompson for 50-60 and Hartley for the rest for the "big" tests, and vice versa for the "smaller" tests. As long as Chuter doesn't get a look in I'm happy (nothing particularly against the guy, I just don't want him worming his way into the squad long term - we've already got the experienced old head in Thompson, no need to get Chuter in there for old times sake as well)

Third hooker then? Would see Mears but hes out for a few more weeks yet.
 
Rob Webber got dropped down to Saxons didn't he? Shame, he's on cracking form at Wasps.
Suppose Chuter's the only other choice (is there only three hookers in the EPS?)



What are peoples thoughts on the Loosehead prop for the first test?
Payne was brought in when Sheridan went out injured (well, when he was on Lions, then kept the place when he went out injured). Neither would be top of most peoples lists for the #1 shirt, however it'll be between those two or the choice.
I think Sheridan would be the lesser of two evils. He's no worse than Payne in the scrum (though unfortunately not a lot better) but offers more around the park, and is a strong carrier and gets involved in rucks and mauls, unlike Payne.
Hopefully Thompson and Cole can carry the scrum like they did over the summer (they deserve "mad props" for mainting a dominant with Payne in there)
 
Rob Webber got dropped down to Saxons didn't he? Shame, he's on cracking form at Wasps.
Suppose Chuter's the only other choice (is there only three hookers in the EPS?)



What are peoples thoughts on the Loosehead prop for the first test?
Payne was brought in when Sheridan went out injured (well, when he was on Lions, then kept the place when he went out injured). Neither would be top of most peoples lists for the #1 shirt, however it'll be between those two or the choice.
I think Sheridan would be the lesser of two evils. He's no worse than Payne in the scrum (though unfortunately not a lot better) but offers more around the park, and is a strong carrier and gets involved in rucks and mauls, unlike Payne.
Hopefully Thompson and Cole can carry the scrum like they did over the summer (they deserve "mad props" for mainting a dominant with Payne in there)

I see Sheridan as the only realistic option at the moment. To see Payne still in an England shirt would come close to bringing tears to my eyes, he is absolutely ****. Someone like Catt, Marler, Corbisiero or Golding in reserve - most likely Golding as he's been in and around the squad already.

Where does Doran-Jones fit in?
 
Not in the EPS though, for the AIs (before any injuries/replacements) we've got:
Cole, Payne, Sheridan, Doran-Jones, Wilson

I rate Golding highly, and i think him and Cole would make a good partnership which be around for a loooooooooong time.
Out of those i'd like to see:
Doran-Jones/Cole, with Wilson on the bench. However Johnson likes Payne/Sheridan so it means sacrificing Doran-Jones or Wilson, and out of those two I think Wilson is the better scrummager, and has played of the bench for England a few times showing he can play both sides of the scrum to a very high level (I know Doran-Jones can play both too, so wouldn't be bad on the bench)
 
Wilson's performances have dropped a long way since joining Bath, would have Doran-Jones ahead of him for the moment.
 
Fair enough,
Haven't seen him a lot for Bath, but have noticed he's been on the bench pretty much every match, not started many
 
aa the question of who's in the number 1 shirt well i reckon sheridan will be picked as he is good in the loose which payne IS NOT. david wilson is okay i guess and is quite a big lump which always helps a wee bit

however in the next couple of years i really want to see Joe Mahler introduced his scrummaging is mind blowing and is loose play is not far behind however at the moment he is a stone or 2 lighter than Sheridan, Wilson etc etc and so i reckon he needs another season or so to mature. i can see a really strong england front three EMERGING in the next couple of years that goes like this:

1. Joe Mahler
2. Dylan Hartley
3.Dan Cole

however for now :

1.Sheridan with wilson on after 60 mins
2.Steve Thompson with hartley on after 50-60mins
3.Cole
 
I rate Golding highly, and i think him and Cole would make a good partnership which be around for a loooooooooong time.


i dont rate golding that highly his scrummaging is not up to it for example when he scrummaged against quins he got owned constantly (then got sent of after 4 mins because of his scrummaging) by the quins big tigh head
 
I'd defo pick Thompson over Hartley (atm) - his set piece work is stronger, though I feel Hartley offers more around the field (his work rate for Saints is out of this world, and he doesn't seem to tire) - Thompson for 50-60 and Hartley for the rest for the "big" tests, and vice versa for the "smaller" tests. As long as Chuter doesn't get a look in I'm happy (nothing particularly against the guy, I just don't want him worming his way into the squad long term - we've already got the experienced old head in Thompson, no need to get Chuter in there for old times sake as well)

i completely agree with all of this though :)
 
Brian Moore picks his England team in the Telegraph:

Ever since Andy Robinson's scattergun policy towards selection, England have been handicapped by their selectors' inability to choose a preferred starting XV and stick with those players; lost has been the chance for familiarity.

Looking back at the last series of autumn internationals prior to a World Cup in 2006, it can be seen that in that series of four games England selected two different back-threes; two different centre partnerships; four different half-back combinations; three different front rows; three different second-row pairings; and two different back-row combinations.



Ah yes, you may point out, England went on to reach the World Cup final the following year, so that proves nothing. Well yes, it does, because if you look at the team that took the field against South Africa at the Stade de France it contained seven players (Jason Robinson, Mike Catt, Mark Regan, Simon Shaw, Jonny Wilkinson, Andy Gomersall and Nick Easter) who did not even play in the previous autumn tests.
Which shows that at least seven of the autumn selections were wrong and those games were lost in terms of preparation for the side who were eventually to do battle for the Webb Ellis Trophy. How much better would it have been for England to have played something like the RWC final team in an extended run before the tournament?
Martin Johnson and his management team have a chance to end this extended reign of indecision because there is emerging a scintilla of a consensus over what the best XV might be. Johnson now needs to be brave and swallow the hard decisions to allow his players the opportunity to forge extended bonds through the good and the bad; in victory and defeat.
There are tricky conundrums for Johnson all round and, by way of just one example, in selections like what back three will he favour – Mark Cueto, Ben Foden, Delon Armitage, Paul Sackey and in which positions?
Both Armitage and Foden could be full-back or wing; does he stick with the dependable Cueto or go with the less secure but more imaginative options which any of the other three players offer?
He has to decide whether he thinks the astonishingly durable Simon Shaw can still cut it, or whether Tom Palmer is a better option – and does he finally accept that Courtney Lawes is now ready to be a starting player? Perhaps the most difficult poser remains that of which No 10 is best blessed to guide England forward.
In spite of Wilkinson kindly stepping out of the limelight and plying his trade in France, none of his potential successors has made a definitive demand of inclusion. Toby Flood now has more authority in his game because of his time at Leicester, but you would not put your mortgage on him consistently calling the shots correctly for a full game, never mind a full series.
At least in Ben Youngs England have a scrum-half whom they can justifiably pick knowing that to his youth needs only to be added more game-time experience. Moreover, with Danny Care, Joe Simpson and Micky Young all challenging, England have healthy rivalry for the position; would that they had similar difficulties over selection in every position.
At hooker Johnson needs to balance the power and experience of Steve Thomson against the brash promise of Dylan Hartley and so it goes on.
For what it is worth, Johnson could see the following XV as one in which he can have faith and a XV that has every possibility of developing into a good side; one that could challenge at next year's World Cup.
Full-back: Delon Armitage. Wings: Chris Ashton and Ben Foden. Centres: Mike Tindall and Olly Barkley. Fly-half: Jonny Wilkinson. Scrum-half: Ben Youngs. Front row: Andy Sheridan, Steve Thompson, Dan Cole. Second row: Simon Shaw, Courtney Lawes. Back row: Tom Croft, Lewis Moody and Nick Easter.
Within this XV is a decent balance of latent talent and hard-headed experience. What recommends these selections is that that the relatively new and inexperienced players would be given guidance by playing in units alongside very experienced partners.
There are ball carriers in all three forward units and the set-pieces would not be a problem because there is a sufficient bulk allied to knowledge.
All that such a pack would need is to ensure they are led strongly and that after concentrating on the first phase they have only one further ambition – to consistently deliver Youngs a plentiful supply of quick ball from the breakdowns.
Martin Johnson's XV for the autumn internationals
Full-back Delon Armitage
Wings Chris Ashton and Ben Foden
Centres Mike Tindall and Olly Barkley
Fly-half Jonny Wilkinson
Scrum-half Ben Youngs
Front row Andy Sheridan, Steve Thompson and Dan Cole
Second row Simon Shaw and Courtney Lawes
Back row Tom Croft, Lewis Moody and Nick Easter
 
For the sake of England, no rugby, I hope he dose not pick that team.

Moving Foden to the wing to accommodate Armitage does seem pretty stupid, and I don't agree with Shaw over Palmer either. Nice to see Barkley in there though.
 
Barkleys not even in the squad :S
Wilkinson over Flood?
Armitage at 15 over Foden?


Moore really is a daft old bugger
 
Barkleys not even in the squad :S
Wilkinson over Flood?
Armitage at 15 over Foden?


Moore really is a daft old bugger
Didn't notice Wilkinson over Flood - definitely prefer Flood. On another note Cockerill said on ESPN on saturday that he considered Flood among the top 4 fly-halfs in the world <_<
 
So Moore wants:

- 2 enforcers in the 2nd row, thus sacrificing the lineout, while putting one of the worst ball throwers in Englands recent history at hooker
- To put in a fly half who prefers to kick the ball away when including one of the slowest packs he can (Thompson, Sheridan, Shaw & Easter in particular)
- To play an under-performing fly-half out of position at inside centre
and then to cap it all off
- Move the best full back English rugby has out of position to accommodate a cheep shot-taking, penalty liability who's as often as not a rabbit in the headlights. While dropping the one winger who's rekindled his ability in recent England appearances (i.e. Cueto).

Brian Moore: Amusing commentator, idiot selector.
 
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