England EPS 2017/18 edition.

[Ragey Erasmus]

Happy with most of it but long standing issues still not being addressed

1) Experienced flankers aren't great and the potential better replacements aren't getting enough game time. (Curry x2, Underhill, Wilson, Kvesic). Underhill I feel in the future will get more time but not so sure about the rest.
2) We have only used 2 SH's for the last 4 years or so. One injury there and our replacement will have no international caps. I can't find any sensible explanation for this, especially since Jones himself said he wanted more than just 2 players per position. Why he seems to completely neglect this position, especially since there are others in the Prem who look good, is beyond me.
3) Will Brown stay at FB right up to the WC or is Jones actually going to phase Watson in there? I was looking back at some games, Brown's consistent inability to even look for a pass on the outside has butchered far more opportunities than he has ever created.
4) THP still looking bare, although I wouldn't blame Jones for this. Cole needs a serious talking to though, his penalty count is just stupid and that sort of thing will cost you tight games. Likewise with Haskell.
5) I don't know the injury situation with our hookers but I don't feel Dunn is ahead of LCD or TT when all are on form. Hartley has no place in the squad. Maybe he offers something unseen but I don't see how important his supposed "leadership" is. England have won many games after he has left the pitch and become more aggressive and assertive without him.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Is Lawes crocked?

I have nothing to add that others haven't mentioned; SH nonsense, FB nonsense, Curry/Wilson, HASKELL WTF, etc.

 

[TommiG88]

Is Lawes crocked?

I have nothing to add that others haven't mentioned; SH nonsense, FB nonsense, Curry/Wilson, HASKELL WTF, etc.

Lawes isn't crocked. From what I heard, it is for personal reasons. I think his wife has just given birth, but I may be wrong.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Lawes isn't crocked. From what I heard, it is for personal reasons. I think his wife has just given birth, but I may be wrong.

She gave birth to twins this afternoon

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Congratulations then. At least that makes sense

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Why is Mercer only in as an "apprentice"?
He's bossing it at Bath, also he's older than the Currys so it's not like it's an age thing?

 

[Which Tyler]

The Currys are absent.

Basically, I think Mercer's got more of an ego (which Eddie dislikes) and is shaking off that belief that he's as much better than everyone else as he was at U20 level.
I think he's shaken that now but could well lapse again if he's capped before being psychologically ready for it. He may be older than the Currys, but I don't think I he's as mature just yet.

ETA maybe "ego" is too hard, maybe he's just believed his own hype a bit much

 

[TRF_Olyy]

The Currys are absent.

Don't rub it in
I meant in general, neither curry has been an apprentice.


Interesting take on Mercer, I know literally nothing about him other than what I've seen of him in the limited number of bath games I've watched.
Bin off Haskell and promote Mercer, I say.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

The Currys are absent.

Basically, I think Mercer's got more of an ego (which Eddie dislikes) and is shaking off that belief that he's as much better than everyone else as he was at U20 level.
I think he's shaken that now but could well lapse again if he's capped before being psychologically ready for it. He may be older than the Currys, but I don't think I he's as mature just yet.

ETA maybe "ego" is too hard, maybe he's just believed his own hype a bit much

Not really sure I buy that considering the other egos in the squad, ones Jones keeps bringing back. Tuilagi and Solomona were both idiotic off field (the former seems to do it every year he is with England), Hartley isn't so much ego but attitude issues as one of the most banned players ever, Brown is Mr Angry, Marler and Haskell are the joker egos. You could also include Itoje as someone who can rub people up the wrong way in a game. I think it's less there is a fault that Jones is trying to correct and more trying to prevent it in the first place (basically a repeat of what happened to Cipriani).

It may be Jones the exact opposite of what you're saying too, Jones doesn't want Mercer or Smith in the squad now just because he doesn't feel it is the right time but he wants to let them know he has his eye on them and is getting them involved in training so when he actually does use them, they are already up to speed. I know nothing about what Mercer and Smith are like attitude wise so it's just speculation but I do feel it is more precautionary/positive than a negative thing.

 

[Scotty]

I am quite confused as alot of you seem to be but this team what ever combination is put out isnt that scary to me, bringing back hask? Leadership? Because youve got robshaw for that. Seems daft to me.

LCD has put his hand up since return from injury and id put over hartley never mind dunn. With launchbury and robshaw we dont need hartleys leadership.

Graham? Who is he? Age? I just dont get the thinking.

We need to nail down who will be our starting xv and its bad that i still dont. Any ideas?

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I am quite confused as alot of you seem to be but this team what ever combination is put out isnt that scary to me, bringing back hask? Leadership? Because youve got robshaw for that. Seems daft to me.

LCD has put his hand up since return from injury and id put over hartley never mind dunn. With launchbury and robshaw we dont need hartleys leadership.

Graham? Who is he? Age? I just dont get the thinking.

We need to nail down who will be our starting xv and its bad that i still dont. Any ideas?

I can't see Jones starting Graham. I'd never heard of him and when we've already got the Curry bros and Underhill as young, developing 7s, I don't think giving this lad a couple of caps is really that beneficial. Although I can see Hask being brought back in, I'm hoping that it'll be Simmonds at 7.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Following injuries sustained at the weekend, Charlie Ewels (hamstring), Piers Francis (concussion), Jonathan Joseph (dead leg), Jack Nowell (ankle) and Harry Williams (concussion) will not join up with England for their training camp today (Monday).

Henry Thomas (Bath Rugby) and Joe Cokanasiga (London Irish) have been called up into the squad for the two-day camp in Brighton.

 

[Scotty]

Right what is our strongest xv because weve tried so many combinations i just dont know.
Injuries to underhill,daly,hughes and billys lack of game time dont help but what is it? Because calling up cockanasiga is abit confusing unless he is literally just there as someone to train against, he isnt gping to play

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I'm expecting to see:
1. Vunipola
2. Hartley
3. Cole
4. Launchbury
5. Lawes (I know he's not in the current squad but he'll be recalled)
6. Itoje
7. Robshaw
8. Vunipola
9. Youngs
10. Ford
11. May
12. Farrell
13. Joseph
14. Watson
15. Brown

16. George
17. Marler
18. Sinckler
19. Ewels/Isiekwe
20. Simmonds
21. Care
22. Te'o (Will he be back?)
23. Nowell

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Haskell straight in at 7 - Jones has been pretty adamant about Robshaw not being a 7, but loved playing Haskell there before.

 

[Scotty]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Haskell straight in at 7 - Jones has been pretty adamant about Robshaw not being a 7, but loved playing Haskell there before.

What 6. robshaw 7. hask or 6. itoje 7. Hask?

 

[curtbob7]

How Armand, Cowan-Dickie and Robson weren't selected I do not know.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

How Armand, Cowan-Dickie and Robson weren't selected I do not know.

Agreed. Graham being selected over Armand is mind-boggling. I can understand LCD not being selected, Hartley and George are bolted on and Dunn has been in very good form so it'd be harsh to drop him. Unlucky for LCD but that's a fair decision. And yeah, only having 2 capped 9s in England less than 2 years before a World Cup is pretty scary.

 

[BenJeffrey]

I'm expecting to see:
1. Vunipola
2. Hartley
3. Cole
4. Launchbury
5. Lawes (I know he's not in the current squad but he'll be recalled)
6. Itoje
7. Robshaw
8. Vunipola
9. Youngs
10. Ford
11. May
12. Farrell
13. Joseph
14. Watson
15. Brown

16. George
17. Marler
18. Sinckler
19. Ewels/Isiekwe
20. Simmonds
21. Care
22. Te'o (Will he be back?)
23. Nowell

Must be a huge headache for him in the centres, with Slade's current form. Agreed last time he put an England shirt on he wasn't great, but with the more games he should be able to transfer that form. Would love a Farrell/Teo/Slade partnership to be tried, never will be though.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Must be a huge headache for him in the centres, with Slade's current form. Agreed last time he put an England shirt on he wasn't great, but with the more games he should be able to transfer that form. Would love a Farrell/Teo/Slade partnership to be tried, never will be though.

The problem with Farrell at 10 is it has a pretty dire track record and it can't all be put down to coincidence. 2013 thrashing, both world cup losses and struggling in the first Aus game all with Farrell at 10. On the flip side we have had far more success with Ford at 10.