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England EPS 2017/18 edition.

I never said he had an amazing game, he had a decent game, and pointed out he's been in bad form (relatively). I wouldn't cry if Williams was selected ahead of him.
We just disagree on whether or not he was at all physical.

I'm fairly placid about that because our discipline was so bad that we never really got any good continuity - which is where guys like Kyle and Mako are going to be doing their damage with ball in hand.
 
I don't care how physical the carries were - touting 3 carries in an hour as someone imposing their physicality in the loose doesn't fly with me

The volume of his work has nothing to do with how physical he was. He could have made one tackle, killed a guy and done literally **** all else in the game... that wouldn't negate his physicality.
I also didn't say "he was dominantly physical".
 
My team for the next test, largely unchanged:
1. Mako - picks itself really
2. LCD - I'm unconvinced by George's ability as a starter, has a good work rate but lacks physicality. I'd like to see LCD given a go. If his line outs really are **** then hook him.
3. Williams - Agree with Tigs; Sinckler didn't really do much today. Does much better up against tired legs when the game's opened up. Williams brings more physicality.
4. Launchbury (if fully fit) - Itoje had a bit of a shocker today, even if he did score. Launch is consistently great for England. Think Itoje may just need to be shown that he's not undroppable and needs to kee his head.
5. Isiekwe - Didn't get a chance to show what he's capable of today; I want to see him given another shot.
6. Shields - Robshaw's just so meh. Shields is superior in literally every facet.
7. Curry - thought he was impressive today; didn't so much for the highlights but his work rate was massive and ran a very nice line for his break. Should be England's 7 for many years to come.
8. Simmonds (if fit) - Both Binny and Hughes clearly not fit. Simmonds could thrive if the game's as open as today's
9. Youngs - did fairly well today
10. Ford - Manipulated space well today when we were on the front foot. Also stood up in defence to be fair to him.
11. Solomona - Brown did pretty well today in all honesty and did extremely well for his try; had no right to score it. That said, he's not a winger. Would like to see what Solomona can do given a start.
12. Farrell (c)
13. Slade - Maybe biased but I thought he did well today. Had a few very nice touches and did well in defence. Definitely didn't do anything to get dropped.
14. May - Personally thought he was our best player today. Looked dangerous every time he got the ball and his pace is just unbelievable, even up against the speedsters of SA rugby. Had a bit of a brain fart when he ran ~20m backwards but we were playing advantage so forgive and forget.
15. Daly - Struggled with kicking today but I guess that's just what happens when you haven't been training at altitude. His boot is a huge weapon and he looked dangerous in attack. His error for Nkosi's first try was poor but mistakes happen.

16. George
17. Genge - Don't see what Marler brings off the bench; Genge is a powerhouse and would love taking on the Saffer's aggression.
18. Sinckler
19. Itoje
20. Vunipola
21. Spencer - Did well today, Robson was poor vs the Barbarians. Simple as that really.
22. Lozowski - Why Francis was picked over him is a real mystery; Loz will bring real pace to the midfield off the bench.
23. Brown - Did well today and is reliable. If all back three players are doing well then leave him on the bench; if one is having a mare then hook them.
 
I disagree with not starting Billy - he's not at his best, but he's still the best tight carrier we have, and we aren't flush with them.
 
Yeah Binny is a necessity, if fit. He's the only guy we have the consistently draws in defenders.
Simmonds isn't an international 8, imo
 
He isn't. He should be in the RWC squad but only because we have no one else and we need 3 TH's.
IF he can somehow get back to his best (maybe the rest does him some good who knows) then he would start for me but he is currently way off his best.

I'm just ******* about tbh, have to shitpost after a performance like that.

If I was to be serious I'd say he's been running on fumes after being overplayed by club and country for years, to the extent that we can't read much into his performances over the last 18 months. His playtime for a 31 year old TH is just ridiculous. I also think that people downplay the importance of the scrum whilst overstating the loose work of his rivals, namely Sinckler. I don't think Sink had a subpar performance today, I actually think his stats are very much in line with what we can expect from him if he starts regularly. If Cole had those stats social media would be in a meltdown about how much of a passenger he was.

With a summer off and possibly better management from Tigers he will improve dramatically. No idea if it'll be enough to get him starting again but **** me if Sinckler is the answer long-term.
 
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Yeah Binny is a necessity, if fit. He's the only guy we have the consistently draws in defenders.
Simmonds isn't an international 8, imo
I agree he's not really an international 8 but given that neither Binny nor Hughes are a full fitness I'd start Simmonds for lack of other options. Maybe even give Wilson a crack? He looked good vs the Barbarians. Plus with Mako, LCD, Williams (as opposed to Cole), Launchbury and Shields in the side, the need for an enormous 8 isn't as crucial.
 
I'd take Wilson over Simmonds.
Forgot he was touring tbh, I'm a big big fan and he's played a lot of 8 for falcons.
 
Did make me smile thinking of all the pissbabbies on social media who were crying about Faf making so many teams of the season over Youngs

Where they? Most seemed to think Robson should be in it.
Youngs missed a fair amount of prem games.
 
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I think we should introduce a cattle prod to training. Anyone who gives a stupid penalty away in the game gets a good jab with it per penalty. If that doesn't solve the discipline issues I don't know what will. I'm not sure if we've even had a game where our penalty count wasn't double figures in the last year.
 
Not going to go over what people have already said. However I can't see how Robshaw can continue, he looks slow and contributes almost nothing. If ESPN stats are correct, then he made less tackles all game than Isiekwe did in 36 mins. He made 10 carries for 12 metres, not amazing and generally he seems to run straight into the tacklers, doesn't really draw them in and also doesn't present the ball well (I remember at least 1 turnover and he was too slow getting the ball away from himself).
 
IF Curry is out injured (Not sure his status currently) have to say after watching that game Simmonds should play at 7.
I just can't see us fixing our defence in a week's time, certainly not with the current coach. having 6. Shields, 7. Simmonds, 8. Vunipola should do well if another fast game breaks out.

Shields taking a lot of lineouts is a major plus point in terms of 6 though the fact he handle it fairly well at this level gives us a proper 3rd option.

Hope England keep Wisemantel full time attack coach wise, the backs look the best since Argentina.
Also hope we go after Jason Ryles who was with us in the NI tests which seems to be the last time we had a good defence two games on the trot by the looks of it.

I also reckon we need a new forwards coach TBH.
 
This is my 23 for next week. I don't think the backline lost us the game yesterday and I would say their potency in attack is enough to keep it intact. Mako was the only front rower to emerge with credit despite his farcical sin binning. Itoje gave away stupid penalties at key moments but his intensity and aggression is needed. He needs to learn the boundaries and learn quickly otherwise there would be little choice but to drop him from the 15. LCD comes in to take the pressure of carrying off the Vunipolae, Shields in to be what Eddie thinks Robshaw is. Hughes and Francis bottled it.

1. M Vunipola - I thought he had a good game. Solid defense, reasonably effective at the breakdown. Not a lot of ground made carrying but he drew in defenders. He looked knackered even before the match but it didn't seem to affect his play, maybe he always looks like that.

2. Cowan-Dickie - He offers so much more around the park. Explosive carrying in the tight, hard hitting and good over the ball. I think he needs to start to get over his end of game, high stakes, lineout stage fright (although to be fair to him I don't think the lost lineout in this game was his fault).

3. Williams - Big man, smashes rucks. Rarely goes backwards or downwards in the scrum. Matched SA ginger loosehead who looked unstoppable before.

4. Itoje - Stupid penalties but at the same time I think England need someone in the pack who gets in the oppos faces. We need a Martin Johnson/Bakkies Botha enforcer/nutter and at the moment Itoje is the closest we have. Hopefully he can wind it in enough to reduce penalties but still ruffle a few feathers.

5. Isiekwe - He played well. Hopefully his early subbing hasn't rocked him too much and he carries on where he left off. Excited about his future for England.

6. Shields - Did well enough but he needs to be played in position. Seems the perfect 6 and balances this back row well.

7. Curry/Simmonds - Very impressive. Dealt with big South Africans and partisan crowd well. Didn't take a backwards step and looked comfortable at this level. Another exciting prospect for England. Simmonds if Curry is injured.

8. B Vunipola - Off pace but understandable given his situation. Despite this, multiple defenders will still be drawn to him when he has the ball so his reputation is enough to keep him starting. Hopefully he hits his straps next time. With LCD and Shields bringing more of a carrying threat it should take the pressure off Billy a bit.

9. Youngs - I thought he was solid. With the leadership/experience he brings as well as lack of realistic competition, I think he should get the nod again.

10. Ford - He seemed to give a lot of ground in defence and SA aren't going to stop running down his channel. However, in attack he was sublime and offers too much to be dropped.

11. Brown - I was actually impressed with Brown. Again, bit of a nutter and I think England need that. I don't think his lack of pace is enough to drop him yet given what he offers. I like a balanced back 3 with a pacey finisher on one wing (May/Watson) and a more solid, safer pair of hands on the other (in this case Brown but ideally Nowell).

12. Farrell - Not his best game but I think he can be a great Captain as long as he doesn't lose his edge.

13. Slade - I think this was his best game in England shirt. With his pace, step and big fends he is no longer just a passing machine. Key defender yesterday.

14. May - Makes me laugh whenever he has the ball but undeniably rapid. Without the quick, long and accurate passing offered by Ford and Slade in particular, he would be much less of a threat. But with the quality of distribution in the rest of the backline May is a real weapon.

15. Daly - Several poor decisions but I don't think any of them were due to the number on his back. A real star player who I think has more of a future at 15 than on the wing for England.

16. George - Not bad but not good. Didn't really offer much beyond solid lineout. Little or no carrying and flopped around the rucks.
17. Genge - See how he goes, I don't think Marler brings a lot to the table beyond petulance. Genge epitomises impact.
18. Sinckler - Seemed to carry towards the ground and struggle at scrum time, especially against Kitshoff. Could be good impact later on.
19. Launchbury/Hill - Would be tempted to start Launchbury if he hadn't been injured the past week or so. If still not upto speed then Hill on the bench for lack of other options. Even as an Exeter supporter, I cant understand Hill being called up.
20. Simmonds/Wilson - Obvious pace and carries hard despite size but needs to be utilised in balanced back row or at least a pack with tight carriers. The only reason he works so well for Exeter is the other two back rowers. Armand (115 kg) plays 7 but looks a traditional 6, Ewers (128 kg) plays 6 but looks a traditional 8. Simmonds for all intents and purposes plays as a 7 from the back of the scrum. This only works if he is allowed space to play. Trying to get him to play like Binny in a pack built around Binny is pi**ing in the wind. Wilson if Curry injured.
21. Spencer - Not seen a lot of him but did well enough yesterday. Just happy he isn't Wigglesworth.
22. Lozowski - Unlucky not to have been picked at 13 for the first test given how he spanked Slade in the final. Despite this I think Slade did enough yesterday to keep the shirt. Would like to see Loz subbed in for Ford later on. No idea what Eddie was thinking with Francis.
23. Solomona - Again, not seen a lot but recognise his attacking threat. Put in a cheeky big hit too. See how he goes with more gametime.

With regards to SA, obviously Faf but also Vermuelen, Snyman and Kitshoff really impressed. Like the look of Akker VDM too, reminds me of LCD a bit. Their outside backs showed real potency and once they get their defensive systems sorted they will be superb. With all this emerging talent as well as Marx and Etzebeth returning, we will hopefully see SA back to their best before long.
 
Ok, so my 'Eddie Jones' team for next week. Not my favorite, but what I think will get picked:

1. Marler
2. George
3. Williams
4.Itoje
5. Launchbury
6. Shields
7. Robshaw
8. Billy
9. Youngs
10. Ford
11, Brown
12. Farrell
13. Loz
14. May
15. Daly


16. Cowan-Dickie
17. Mako
18. Sinks
19. Isiekwe
20. Simmonds
21. Spencer
22. Slade
23. Solomona
 
I thought curry played well.was it a coincidence our pack got back on the front foot when he went off not a question what he does but what he doesn't do
 
Was anyone else surprised by how lanky Shields looked yesterday? Whenever I'd seen him in Super Rugby I'd thought of him as being much bulkier. RFU site lists him as being 112kg (although it also says Hughes is 115 and Simmonds is 93 so how reliable that is I don't know) but I'd of thought he could comfortably bulk up to ~116 without losing any mobility. With Curry offering not a lot in terms of tight carrying it would be good to have Shields able to really make an impact.
 
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