England EPS 2016/17 season.

[Bada-Bing!]

http://www.planetrugby.com/news/england-confirm-2017-fixtures/

Definitely no England v NZ in 2017. Playing Argentina Australia and Samoa in November 2017.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Bloody hell why do we need to play Australia again?!

 

[McTallshort]

No South Africa No New Zealand, hardly inspirational stuff

 

[ncurd]

2 years undefeated!

More importantly can we overhaul NZ without actually playing them

Its a mighty shame, I suppose we played Australia in the Out of Window Test so make sense we play them in window. What I don't understand is how we ended up with Argentina again. (I've no idea how they schedule who you play in window).

 

[Which Tyler]

So, we all want the top tier nations to play at least 1 2nd tier each Autumn; meaning we've got 2 matches to go against the 4 QN sides - and we complain that we only play 2 of the QN sides?

Of course, I agree, we've played Aus 4 times this year; and are now going to play Arg 3 time next year; but still - we're not the only party involved in making these decisions (and NZ want to hold off to be the 4th AI in an even numbered year, so they can take a cut of the gate - or sulk if that cut isn't big enough)

2More importantly can we overhaul NZ without actually playing them

Only if they lose (about 3 I think) and we don't. If we get through next year undefeated (rather a huge "if") we should reach the point where we can't win any further ranking points except by playing NZ

 

[ncurd]

That's fine except

a) NZ shouldn't be allowed to 'duck' a game so they can get it out of window.

b) Who we are mandated to play (in window) should be rotational so everyone we didn't play last year must play us the following year.

 

[Which Tyler]

I don't think there is a mandate; as far as I'm aware it's for individual unions to negotiate, with complicated pro-rata agreements over many years.
It's not like a league, where an appointing body [IRB] just tells you who to play and when. They can assist and encourage, but not dictate.

I'm going to predict a battle of wills between NZ and England (and possably Wales as well - briefly until they cave) where they refuse to play us without £££, and we call their bluff and don't meet them outside of RWC for the next 5-6 years.

 

[Peat]

That's fine except

a) NZ shouldn't be allowed to 'duck' a game so they can get it out of window.

b) Who we are mandated to play (in window) should be rotational so everyone we didn't play last year must play us the following year.

Are they allowed to do that? I didn't think they were.

Also given how many years we had NZ every year, two years off is hardly the end of the world.

 

[ncurd]

Are they allowed to do that? I didn't think they were.

Also given how many years we had NZ every year, two years off is hardly the end of the world.

It will actually be three years as we didn't play them in 2015 (no AI or tours).

Before we played them once a year with the 4th skipped out. Also looks like we are dipping out on a tour to them this cycle. I'm all up for not playing them every year especially in the AI's if we tour them but otherwise it feels like its bad for rugby fans on both sides.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/38427493

Now Mako's in doubt for 6Ns.

 

[TW27BA]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/38427493

Now Mako's in doubt for 6Ns.

Hope he makes it for the France match, but could Genge get his chance in front of Marler?

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I think Genge deserves his chance IMO been strong in the scrum and a hell of a carrier.

Would pick him ahead of Mullan.

Genge
George
Sinckler

That has some power to it.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I think Genge deserves his chance IMO been strong in the scrum and a hell of a carrier.

Would pick him ahead of Mullan.

Genge
George
Sinckler

That has some power to it.

Much more dynamic than Marler Hartley Cole. Although we won't see it in the 6N I'd like a future of:

1) Genge/Mako/Mullan
2) George/Taylor/LCD
3) Sinkler/Hill/Brookes

Any combination of those would suddenly give England some real carrying potential in the front 3 giving even more room for Billy to work in plus they all seem more mobile than our current choices. As long as our scrum doesn't go full Aussie, it could be very destructive. Imagine at 50-60 mins seeing the next batch of 3 coming on, that's no reduction in carrying power at all. Personally I want to see a new front row being phased in throughout 2016.

 

[BPM]

Let's not forget that Marler is a very capable/dependable and experienced player. Mako seized his chance to leapfrog Marler and is now deservedly first choice, but if he's out for the 6N, I'd be happy enough for Marler to slot back in with Genge as an impact sub.

I'd like to see Val Rapava-Ruskin drafted in to the squad ahead of Mullan as I think he offers more around the park.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

It's no secret that I'm a big fan of Mullan, but Genge has really impressed me. Definitely raw, but no more than Marler and Mako were when they were brought into the EPS.

If Mako is out for the 6N then I'd have Marler first choice, Genge bench, Mullan in the squad (Mullan would come straight in to start in the event of Marler being injured - as much as I like Genge I wouldn't want him starting at this stage of his career - I think Genge offers more from the bench than Matt, and it'd get him 5/10/15/20mins and ease him into test rugby over the series).


As much as people might want Genge to leapfrog Marler you can't understate experience at the top level, especially in the front row - Genge might be better than Marler down the line, but I definitely wouldn't have him starting at this stage of his career. Genge is still very very young for a prop, he's only had 10 starts at the top level, Marler's got 4.5x as many England caps as that.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Nail on head, Olyy.

 

[Peat]

Only quibble I'd raise with that idea is its nice to have a steady hand in the replacement props as well and Genge/Sinckler don't offer that.

But choosing between Marler, Mullan and Genge is no hardship if it comes to it. Happy to trust Jones with pretty much whatever if Vunipola doesn't make it.

 

[BPM]

Thinking beyond England, missing the 6N would also be a blow to Mako's hopes of starting for the Lions. I think a good 6N would have made it a very tough choice between Mako and McGrath but now, one would assume McGrath would have to play very poorly not to be nailed-on for the no. 1 shirt.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Only quibble I'd raise with that idea is its nice to have a steady hand in the replacement props as well and Genge/Sinckler don't offer that.

But choosing between Marler, Mullan and Genge is no hardship if it comes to it. Happy to trust Jones with pretty much whatever if Vunipola doesn't make it.

I'm not advocating a complete removal of experience but I'd like us to get the process of giving these players caps under way this year. Horses for courses, there is no reason to use Cole and Marler for the likes of Italy for example or the T2 games we will play. Against bigger opposition then they can fill the role of impact subs around the 50-60 min with a full front row change. NZ give caps to players at a very young age and operate on the basis of if you're good enough you're old enough. Imagine if we had denied Itoje a place because he was too young and we went for experience first and foremost? There is a place for experience but there is also a place for getting talent in as soon as you can without it being detrimental to them.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I'm not advocating a complete removal of experience but I'd like us to get the process of giving these players caps under way this year. Horses for courses, there is no reason to use Cole and Marler for the likes of Italy for example or the T2 games we will play. Against bigger opposition then they can fill the role of impact subs around the 50-60 min with a full front row change. NZ give caps to players at a very young age and operate on the basis of if you're good enough you're old enough. Imagine if we had denied Itoje a place because he was too young and we went for experience first and foremost? There is a place for experience but there is also a place for getting talent in as soon as you can without it being detrimental to them.

While I agree with that Eddie Jones talked a lot about players earning their caps and saying they had sometimes been given out too lightly before.

He also stated he capped some players he shouldn't have (assume that means Burrell, can't think of anyone else).