England EPS 2016/17 season.

[spartan32]

Lawes loss I think may be the final straw. SA and have some world class forwards, are generally very strong at the set piece, and tough at the breakdown. We are now fielding an experienced front row a half cut second row, and back row, with very little quality players that also have test experience to put on the bench. It's gonna take something special from the new boys to pull off a win.

And there's still that dreaded 12 issue. The Faz Ford axis clearly works pretty well but should Faz go down I assume Slade steps in. He's a talented young lad, and certainly one for the future, but in a white hot game against SA i think it will be too much for him.

I really hope I'm wrong and that EJ has a plan more cunning then a fox who has a masters degree from cunning university in being cunning.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

It's like we are cursed to be full of injuries or other problems any time we are due to face SA.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

My team now:
1. M. Vunipola
2. Hartley (With so many injuries in the pack any chance of George or Taylor starting is out the window. We need Hartley's experience)
3. Cole
4. Launchbury
5. Attwood
6. Robshaw
7. Harrison (Jesus...)
8. B. Vunipola
9. Youngs
10. Ford
11. May
12. Farrell
13. Joseph
14. Rokoduguni
15. Brown

16. George (Just.)
17. Marler (Tempting to go for Genge)
18. Sinckler
19. Ewels
20. Hughes
21. Care (Should be Robson but...)
22. Slade
23. Daly

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Anyone know how Marler played today?

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Beaumont's been called up

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Beaumont's been called up

Makes sense he was down as a lock.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Makes sense he was down as a lock.

Launch, Attwood, Ewels and Beaumont as our locks is worrying... 3rd, 5th and 6th choice locks, one of which is uncapped, and an uncapped 8...

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

Beaumont's been called up

Called it. I can think of worse pairings than Launchbury-Beaumont or Launch-Attwood, the issue is I can't think of any possible combination of those that even comes close to Etzebeth-De Jäger.

 

[Peat]

Called it. I can think of worse pairings than Launchbury-Beaumont or Launch-Attwood, the issue is I can't think of any possible combination of those that even comes close to Etzebeth-De Jäger.

Happily they won't be playing a 2 on 2 game

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

When was the last time Beaumont played lock?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Pretty sure he played there in preseason,
He played about 20mins there every game before this season as he'd start at 8 then they'd bring on a backrower from the bench and he'd move to lock.
It ain't exactly international rugby levels though, so I'm not sure why EJ is adamant he's a lock

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

Happily they won't be playing a 2 on 2 game

Touché

Edited to add: Although direct comparison does occur at the scrum and line out. So there!

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Beaumont is class at the lineout to be fair,
It's his scrummaging that would be an issue simply because he has such a small amount of experience packing down there as a professional.

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

Beaumont is class at the lineout to be fair,
It's his scrummaging that would be an issue simply because he has such a small amount of experience packing down there as a professional.

Beaumont and Tom Wood in the second row, line out demons.

#youhearditherefirst

 

[Peat]

Touché

Edited to add: Although direct comparison does occur at the scrum and line out. So there!

Activities where the entire packs take part in heavily co-ordinated and coached activities are directly comparable for the two locks?

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

Activities where the entire packs take part in heavily co-ordinated and coached activities are directly comparable for the two locks?

Okay, you got me, not there either. I'm sure you're right on this.

I'll concede defeat, with the caveat that I think it's fatuous of you to deny that there's a meaningful benefit to having a good second row partnership as well as quality individual locks.

 

[Peat]

Okay, you got me, not there either. I'm sure you're right on this.

I'll concede defeat, with the caveat that I think it's fatuous of you to deny that there's a meaningful benefit to having a good second row partnership as well as quality individual locks.

I thought you were actually talking about individual quality :lol:

And yes, I was being fatuous. We are clearly at a weakness comparing locks head to head. That said, I am also right. Everything the second rows will do will be part of a wider effort. If the other guys get it right, the lock that ain't Launchbury isn't going to lose us games. If they don't, replacing them with Itoje probably doesn't win us games.

And that whole wider effort thing means I don't really believe in second row partnerships as a meaningful thing. There is nothing on the pitch where you consider them in isolation. So why try to measure them as an isolated unit?

 

[spartan32]

From what I've seen Beaumont is pretty good in the loose so there could be some advantage in having Billy V, Harrison, and Beaumont all playing at the same time. Throw in a rampaging Mako and there could be some potent ball carrying.

The scrum is going to be a real concern though. If we start conceding tonnes of penalties at scrum time then we will struggle to get a toe hold. I can see choke tackles galore coming from SA.

At EJ has a couple of weeks to beast whatever pack he's going to put out and get them up to speed.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

From what I've seen Beaumont is pretty good in the loose so there could be some advantage in having Billy V, Harrison, and Beaumont all playing at the same time. Throw in a rampaging Mako and there could be some potent ball carrying.

The scrum is going to be a real concern though. If we start conceding tonnes of penalties at scrum time then we will struggle to get a toe hold. I can see choke tackles galore coming from SA.

At EJ has a couple of weeks to beast whatever pack he's going to put out and get them up to speed.

Scrummaging is what I worry about. SA aren't playing well, but their pack is still very big and very strong. Mako's scrummaging has improved, but it's still a major liability. Throw in an out of form Hartley and potentially an 8 at second row and it could spell disaster. I can't really see Beaumont getting game time though, unless maybe against Fiji. Launch, Attwood and Ewels are ahead of him at lock and Vunipola, Hughes and Morgan at 8. I actually think his best shot is at 7, I think he suits the destructive open side role Eddie wants. Should Teimana fail there, I'd like to see Josh get a go.

For what you said about beasting the pack, with the injuries, I think it's probably best to go easy on them.

 

[Peat]

I can't recall the last time we got really pummelled at scrum time - probably 2013 - and I can't remember the last time I was really scared of South Africa's scrum either. Not saying it couldn't go wrong but I wouldn't say I'm worried either per se. Having Marler on the bench is a nice insurance policy.

Mind you, I'm mostly basing this on South Africa just not looking like a team. They look like the game where the opposition called in a bunch of ringers and there's clearly a lot of talent but most of them don't know each other and a couple of them look like they'd rather be back in bed. They'll be the biggest physical challenge we've met yet and if they click it could get dangerous, but I think I'd back us to put up enough points and be strong enough in defence to make it work.