England EPS 2016/17 season.

[Which Tyler]

Does Eddie have free rein now over the squad?
Like he now can pick his 33 without worrying about limited changes?

I don't think he can ever make more than 10 changes at a time.

He has free reign now.
He gets a new EPS from scratch for the new season (though the jury is out as to when he has to name it); and 5 changes in January; and that's it.
The only time changes are limited to 10 is the January following a RWC.

 

[spartan32]

I hope EJ has free reign, and I'm glad to see lots of strengths in the pack. I know there are some question marks over 6/7 but I think we've got enough quality to compete with any pack in the world.

What England badly seem to need is a at least a couple of strong strike runners. We need a much stronger and more dangerous runner at 15. Browns time is nearly done, and Goode is a stop gap at best. I really don't know who's out there to fill this role but we need to find someone.

And then there's the dreaded 12 spot. Manu looks to be a broken man who isn't ever going to recover. Faz has done really well but isn't going to tax too many defenders at the highest level. Could Te'o be the man? I'm
Happy with JJ, Watson, Nowell and there's plenty of of cover in Daly, Slade, Roko, Yard, and even Wade.

I just can't think of anyone who qualifies for England who is a match for the NZ and Aussie 15s and 12s,
And that's a real problem. Yes you can build a solid team around set piece, but it's gonna take more then that to get to the top spot.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Tigs - it's not Beaumont you need, but Morgan.

Nah i want Beaumont now.

 

[Peat]

But Jones does talk about having a massive passion and desire to play for England. Maybe if it's about money Hughes doesn't have the passion? I'm just hoping.

I think Ben Te'o pokes a very big hole in this argument.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Wonder if Teo was **** in training, or something.
Burrell getting the nod over him for game 1 despite a lacklustre season and getting cut by EJ in his first EPS was a surprise.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Wonder if Teo was **** in training, or something.
Burrell getting the nod over him for game 1 despite a lacklustre season and getting cut by EJ in his first EPS was a surprise.

It seemed a surprise, but thinking about it maybe not so much. Unless Teo'd been stellar in training, maybe EJ took the view that team dynamics wouldn't be best served by fast tracking an "outsider" straight into the team. Although different from Burgess there's a degree of similarity and if there was one lesson to be learned from the Lancaster era....

 

[Maverick1987]

Id rather have Hughes and Beaumont over Clifford . Clifford seems to me to be a champagne flanker . He misses tackles left right and centre which is the bread and butter stuff for his position . I'm not sold on his physicality either if I'm honest

 

[Peat]

Wonder if Teo was **** in training, or something.
Burrell getting the nod over him for game 1 despite a lacklustre season and getting cut by EJ in his first EPS was a surprise.

He was being talked up a lot then picked up a knock in training before the first game. Burrell only got the first game because he missed a lot of training time.

Then Eddie went to a system with no place for a bosher anywhere. Whether that's because that was just the strongest system, or whether its because he didn't trust his boshers, we don't know.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Id rather have Hughes and Beaumont over Clifford . Clifford seems to me to be a champagne flanker . He misses tackles left right and centre which is the bread and butter stuff for his position . I'm not sold on his physicality either if I'm honest

I thought Clifford had been brilliant in the premiership but just not risen to international rugby. Maybe a player who needs time to settle in before we judge.

Anyone got any stats for all his England games?

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I thought Clifford had been brilliant in the premiership but just not risen to international rugby. Maybe a player who needs time to settle in before we judge.

Anyone got any stats for all his England games?

In the Wales game me made 5 tackles and missed 3. So a 62.5% tackle success rate. Which is shocking.

 

[Every Time Ref]

Id rather have Hughes and Beaumont over Clifford . Clifford seems to me to be a champagne flanker . He misses tackles left right and centre which is the bread and butter stuff for his position . I'm not sold on his physicality either if I'm honest

There's an argument that you're better off selecting "champagne players", getting them involved ft Young and teaching them the donkey work. You can teach a Clifford to Robshaw more easily than the other way round.

He was being talked up a lot then picked up a knock in training before the first game. Burrell only got the first game because he missed a lot of training time.

Then Eddie went to a system with no place for a bosher anywhere. Whether that's because that was just the strongest system, or whether its because he didn't trust his boshers, we don't know.

I think the answer is that in the first test he tried Plan A then Plan B, Plan B worked a whole lot better so he stuck with it. Change of personnel might have made A more effective, but EJ didn't see that as a good risk.

 

[JJFlash]

. if Tom Youngs gets dropped despite being great at Tigers..

.

Does anyone know if he'll be fit for pre-season? If so, he'll be champing at the bit to regain his rightful place. For me, he has to be in the mix for hooker.

 

[msf]

Hi, I haven´t been on for a quite a while, but I think one of the last things I discussed on here was Hughes. I think I said that Morgan wouldn´t get a look in under Jones, and I seem to have got that one right so far. The only way I can see Hughes not being picked is, if like Morgan (I would bet), Jones isn´t happy with Hughes´ workrate, although I think it would be his workrate in defence, rather than workrate in attack as I believe it was for Morgan. There is no chance that Jones will not pick Hughes on any other grounds than his value as a player - it should be obvious to everyone by now that Jones only cares about one thing, winning.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Does anyone know if he'll be fit for pre-season? If so, he'll be champing at the bit to regain his rightful place. For me, he has to be in the mix for hooker.

Jones has already canned him once. He's now 29 and I doubt will get a look in except for injury. Hartley is now nailed on and I'm sure Jones will be picking his 16 with long term succession in mind.

 

[Peat]

There's an argument that you're better off selecting "champagne players", getting them involved ft Young and teaching them the donkey work. You can teach a Clifford to Robshaw more easily than the other way round.

I don't that level of education should be taking place in the national side.

I think the answer is that in the first test he tried Plan A then Plan B, Plan B worked a whole lot better so he stuck with it. Change of personnel might have made A more effective, but EJ didn't see that as a good risk.

Yup. That's the detail I couldn't be bothered to put in ^_^ Thanks for adding it!

 

[msf]

I disagree with those suggesting Clifford might not make the next EPS. I think Jones rates his versatility very highly, as it means that we have cover across the backrow. I think bringing Clifford on that early in the 3rd test to replace Robshaw (who had replaced Harrison at 7), shows the trust he places in Clifford to finish games, if not start them. Also, it may have been in another thread, but whoever said that Clifford isn´t good at the breakdown needs to watch more closely - he is in at almost every single one, and whilst he isn´t as good as staying over the ball as Kvesic, he is a real nuisance there.

 

[Every Time Ref]

I don't that level of education should be taking place in the national side.

No I agree, was unclear. Definitely the education happens at club level where they have time with coaches. My point is it's worth earmarking these players, keeping them involved with the set up and giving them caps in preparation for the future.

Yup. That's the detail I couldn't be bothered to put in ^_^ Thanks for adding it!

Always here to clear up your mess buddy!

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I don't that level of education should be taking place in the national side.

In general I agree but there are exceptions. I think what the All Blacks do so well is that when there's a young prospect, they are selected for the squad early on so that the coaches can work with them and develop them themselves. They have no intention of playing the player until they're ready, they're just in the squad to learn (Damien McKenzie being the most recent example). Other teams don't do that. All the players in the England squad are there as potential players for that tour/championship. I think it would benefit us to get players like Mallinder, Genge, Underhill etc. in the squad now so that Eddie and his staff can develop them into the players that they want them to be.

 

[Tony Manx]

In general I agree but there are exceptions. I think what the All Blacks do so well is that when there's a young prospect, they are selected for the squad early on so that the coaches can work with them and develop them themselves. They have no intention of playing the player until they're ready, they're just in the squad to learn (Damien McKenzie being the most recent example). Other teams don't do that. All the players in the England squad are there as potential players for that tour/championship. I think it would benefit us to get players like Mallinder, Genge, Underhill etc. in the squad now so that Eddie and his staff can develop them into the players that they want them to be.

That is what the club coaches are for....you know, the guys who help pay their wages?

 

[Every Time Ref]

That is what the club coaches are for....you know, the guys who help pay their wages?

You're right but I also get Toby's point - as an international coach you don't want to leave control of your best prospects entirely in the hands of someone else.