England 2024/25

[Rugbyfan564]

England set to poach 'explosive' Welsh-born star in another blow to Warren Gatland following Immanuel Feyi-Waboso blunder

After Warren Gatland and Wales missed out on Immanuel Feyi-Waboso, another youngster could soon be committing to Steve Borthwick's England.

www.planetrugby.com

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

On locks, we also have the problem that only Martin is really a TH lock. The rest are all loose. So we can do all sorts until Martin is injured and then we look under powered.

we have so many players like Itoje and Genge who could be brilliant but just never kicked on consistently. Real shame really.

Would dropping them actually of helped their development or not. Although we didn't/ don't exactly have good replacements lining up.

 

[BPM]

Well, Johnny Hill has come back looking very good. I'm sure he'd be an unpopular selection but he probably fills that gap …

 

[Geordie]

On locks, we also have the problem that only Martin is really a TH lock. The rest are all loose. So we can do all sorts until Martin is injured and then we look under powered.

we have so many players like Itoje and Genge who could be brilliant but just never kicked on consistently. Real shame really.

Would dropping them actually of helped their development or not. Although we didn't/ don't exactly have good replacements lining up.

?? Did you mean Itoje there? If you do...i disagree.

 

[Geordie]

Well, Johnny Hill has come back looking very good. I'm sure he'd be an unpopular selection but he probably fills that gap …

He'd be better than Ewells....

 

[Which Tyler]

Well, Johnny Hill has come back looking very good. I'm sure he'd be an unpopular selection but he probably fills that gap …

IMO, JHill fits the same gap as Ewels and Isiekwe - promises much, but not been able to translate it to international rugby - also let down by regular and repeated idiocy (though this last is just for Ewels and Hill)

 

[Rugbyfan564]

England must pick powerhouse Tom Willis at No 8, writes CHRIS FOY

CHRIS FOY - WORLD OF RUGBY: It's time to jump aboard. Tom Willis is the bona fide No 8 blaster who England are crying out for. Steve Borthwick must pick him for the Six Nations.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[TRF_Olyy]

This place is just turning into a news aggregator, can we at least have some discussion instead of just countless links to articles?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

IMO, JHill fits the same gap as Ewels and Isiekwe - promises much, but not been able to translate it to international rugby - also let down by regular and repeated idiocy (though this last is just for Ewels and Hill)

tbf to Hill he's at least had a few good performances for England - I still wouldn't pick him though (he obviously wants to go to France and it's just the injury that's kept him here because his contract got cancelled - he also went off injured this week so probably won't be available), and would be more inclined to give some actual development time to Isiekwe

I know i'm a bit of a broken record with him, and he's not exactly backed me up with his England performances so far, but he's so good for Saracens, especially in the defensive lineout, that I do think he's worth getting some consistent game time rather than the 10mins here and there he's been getting to see if he can actually hang at the international level - his last start was 4 years ago
Though the time to do that was when Martin and/or Chessum have been out injured, really

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

IMO, JHill fits the same gap as Ewels and Isiekwe - promises much, but not been able to translate it to international rugby - also let down by regular and repeated idiocy (though this last is just for Ewels and Hill)

You can't say one way or another that Isiekwe's been able to translate or otherwise. He's got 15 caps dating back to 2017 but those only translate into about 4.5 matches of actual game time. His last 8 have been as sub averaging 12 minutes per match, which tell you nothing.

His best year for minutes was 2022, a year in which he also happened to have open heart surgery - who knows how his performances had been impacted by that, or just how tough it was to recover.

I'm a fan, others aren't, but he's not really been given a fair crack from being prematurely capped and the first half Boks humiliation onwards.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

?? Did you mean Itoje there? If you do...i disagree.

Yeah I did mean Itoje. He's never consistently been brilliant. He's been ok, been poor, been brilliant but never seen a high level consistently for England.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Yeah I did mean Itoje. He's never consistently been brilliant. He's been ok, been poor, been brilliant but never seen a high level consistently for England.

He has been consistently good/very good for most of his career with England imo

 

[Geordie]

Yeah I did mean Itoje. He's never consistently been brilliant. He's been ok, been poor, been brilliant but never seen a high level consistently for England.

Hhhmm im not sure i agree with that. I think hes been very good consistently at what he does especially when he has the right partner step forward Mr Kruis. He had an illness over the last year and a half which coincided with his real poor performances.

The issue with Itoje is that what he does is pretty much the job of a 6 (IMO)...which is why many were saying in his early years he should be there and not lock. The cupboard is pretty bare for young locks coming through so until one of them puts their hand up...Maro will be there for a while yet. He's always given penalties away...but thats because of his style...he plays on the edge.

 

[BPM]

tbf to Hill he's at least had a few good performances for England - I still wouldn't pick him though (he obviously wants to go to France and it's just the injury that's kept him here because his contract got cancelled - he also went off injured this week so probably won't be available), and would be more inclined to give some actual development time to Isiekwe

I know i'm a bit of a broken record with him, and he's not exactly backed me up with his England performances so far, but he's so good for Saracens, especially in the defensive lineout, that I do think he's worth getting some consistent game time rather than the 10mins here and there he's been getting to see if he can actually hang at the international level - his last start was 4 years ago
Though the time to do that was when Martin and/or Chessum have been out injured, really

Yeah, not against Isiekwe being picked. My point was supposed to be that Hill is more of a tight head lock. Unless I got that wrong?

 

[Saintjay]

I mean… he hasn't.

My bad i should have said people suggesting he should be a bench spot for England.

He isn't and he won't be. He's one of only a few with a chance of being an England Lions starter.

 

[BPM]

He has been consistently good/very good for most of his career with England imo

Agreed. He might have had a handful of poor games across his entire England career but I think he's also measured against a much higher standard (that he set for himself). His 'poor' is others' peak.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Yeah, not against Isiekwe being picked. My point was supposed to be that Hill is more of a tight head lock. Unless I got that wrong?

They both are, really - Isiekwe has mostly played tighthead lock since returning from his time at Saints
there's a few 4 and 6 outings, especially a few seasons back, but he's pretty much settled at 5 as his main position now

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

He'd be better than Ewells....

 

[mikebrownsauce1512]

Kenningham is developing into a brilliant player. He's probably the least lauded of our back row players but is consistently excellent - great tackler, very good at the breakdown (almost always slows the ball down at the very least and I think he's currently top for turnovers in the league), carries well, links well and a good lineout forward. What's not to like?

He was immense last night.

He reminds me of Mark Wilson - one of this really good all-round flankers who flies under the radar, but could thrive at test level.

Agree with this, rate kenningham highly. There is just so much depth in the England back row

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

The issue with Itoje is that what he does is pretty much the job of a 6 (IMO)...which is why many were saying in his early years he should be there and not lock.

There's a lot in that in terms of balance and gelling with others.

Law of averages after his number of caps mean that he'll have had some stellar performances (he has) and some stinkers (he has). He's given many 'good' performances too, but it's also fair to say that for extended periods he's not performed near his best for which player and coaches must share the blame. At that point I was fully supportive of some bench time.

One thing I've never quite got my head around is that when he does do something excellent it never seems to quite change the mood or galvanise the wider team in the way that interventions from Underhill or even Martin can. Maybe unfair but that's my impression. Perhaps it's the quieter character / leadership thing.

But right now, discipline aside, he's playing well and is inked in. But he's also now 30 and, more importantly, has quite a few miles on the clock for club, country and Lions. No signs yet, but his game's based on athleticism and legs can go quite quickly as players age. Should Martin and Chessum ever be fit and firing together, they'd lay down a challenge for sure.