England 2024/25

[Geordie]

We should stop looking abroad and bring on our younger English players.

i think in the most part we do stick with the English, its just 12 has become such a dilema now that when someone is standing out and is potentially EQ then England coaches will look.

I just think a bit of patience is required now, as theres a few green shoots coming through...and if Van Rensburg isnt available until 2026...then the green shoots should be even bigger by then, and should be settled in the England set up.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

It's only a dilemma because our coaches are too thick or too scared, or both, to try any of the younger options


It's absolutely pathetic to be counting down the days for a South African who couldn't give two hoots about playing for England, beyond the paycheck and it being a jolly, to become eligible. It's everything that's wrong with the sport these days, and I fully expect Borthwick to do it

 

[Geordie]

It's only a dilemma because our coaches are too thick or too scared, or both, to try any of the younger options


It's absolutely pathetic to be counting down the days for a South African who couldn't give two hoots about playing for England, beyond the paycheck and it being a jolly, to become eligible. It's everything that's wrong with the sport these days, and I fully expect Borthwick to do it

Yeah sadly i expect him to pick him aswell...

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

It's only a dilemma because our coaches are too thick or too scared, or both, to try any of the younger options


It's absolutely pathetic to be counting down the days for a South African who couldn't give two hoots about playing for England, beyond the paycheck and it being a jolly, to become eligible. It's everything that's wrong with the sport these days, and I fully expect Borthwick to do it

And I wouldn't blame him in the slightest if he does. It's not his place to go all moral, his job is to deliver results from the talent pool available and he should pick whoever he thinks is best placed to help the team win.

Player development is a big issue, but it's not SB's remit.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

And I wouldn't blame him in the slightest if he does. It's not his place to go all moral, his job is to deliver results from the talent pool available and he should pick whoever he thinks is best placed to help the team win.

Player development is a big issue, but it's not SB's remit.

This, it's for the clubs to develop good 12s. Having said that, England have been shocking at giving any potential 12s real chances. Having Farrell and tuilagi completely blocking that position for years hasn't helped anything.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

This, it's for the clubs to develop good 12s. Having said that, England have been shocking at giving any potential 12s real chances. Having Farrell and tuilagi completely blocking that position for years hasn't helped anything.

Hopefully giving these kind of chances will be where the A fixtures show their real value.

 

[Which Tyler]

For me, it's the lack of imagination.
With residency at 5 years, I've no particular problem with picking someone who's available, though I do find it distasteful to be chasing them this far out from qualification.

The bigger problem though, is the determination that a 12 should be a crash ball player, and only a crash ball player.
Far better that the coaches look at the options available to them, and try to build the best team that they can from that.
Currently, they're trying to fit a square peg into a round hole with Lawrence, who has neither the handling nor the power to pull off the role (but would be a genuine contender at 13) whilst ignoring the 12s we DO have, like SAtkinson, Ojomoh, Hartley etc. Any decent coach would be licking their lips at the prospect of moulding England's young talent. They're not the finished article, but they are available.
We don't have anyone in their prime available, because any promising 12s developing in the last decade have seen their path blocked there, and moved to a different shirt (Slade to 13, Shillcock to 15, Redpath to Scotland, Williams & Tomkins to Wales...)

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Player development is a big issue, but it's not SB's remit.

Kinda is though - there are players playing really well at club level and not being given the opportunity the next level up, or the half step up at A level

Who picks the EPS? Borthwick
Who picks the A side? Borthwick

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Kinda is though - there are players playing really well at club level and not being given the opportunity the next level up, or the half step up at A level

Who picks the EPS? Borthwick
Who picks the A side? Borthwick

Getting players up to the standard where they can legitimately be considered for these levels is someone else's job. Once there, it's down to SB to select and polish.

Van Rensburg has been a real focal point for his club side. You can't say that for Hartley, Ojomoh or Atkinson yet. Good moments, good games but not consistently influential and that's the standard they should be aspiring to to nail down an international shirt. While I'm fairly pragmatic on this, for the record, I too would much prefer English bred players.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Atkinson definitely has, and Ojomoh and Hartley have definitely looked good enough for the A Squad (i think Ojomoh made the squad but was unused, so concede there)

 

[BPM]

The A fixtures should help with this, but as it stands I think Baxter and AOF are the only examples of anyone having successfully made a test 23 after featuring for the A side (I might well have missed someone though?). I know a few capped players have dropped down to the A's - I'm specifically talking about players who we can say have been promoted through the pathway. I would like to hope the rate increases from an average of 1 per fixture.

Selection is still illogical too. Why ignore Seb Atkinson in favour of Ojomoh, who hadn't even featured for Bath at the point the last A squad was selected? We'd have learned more by playing Seb than we did playing Dingwall who we already know is good enough for the senior squad. There are other examples too, but considering 12 is a problem position, it was a big missed opportunity.