England 2024/25

[BrokenWing]

I didn't actually think between 2nd or 3rd but I know he's a limited skills and speed player so he wouldn't be my number one.

I'm sure he probably will be though, just on the basis that we've had a lot of change in the team already and SB will have a hard on for boring backs.

Oh, absolutely. He has his strengths and he has his weaknesses, much like every other player.

I think his stock is maybe higher than it should be is down to the contrast between when he arrived on the scene and what was before.

What happens next depends on how much of a risk SB wants to take…

 

[Geordie]

Ethan Roots name checked by SB...meh.

No thanks.

 

[BPM]

Oh, absolutely. He has his strengths and he has his weaknesses, much like every other player.

I think his stock is maybe higher than it should be is down to the contrast between when he arrived on the scene and what was before.

What happens next depends on how much of a risk SB wants to take…

I think 'his stock is maybe higher' because when he came in to the team, he was individually good while most of the rest of the team were actively bad. It was also genuinely impressive at how quickly he stepped up to test level given how young he was at the time.

It also depends on how you're defining risk. Given the context of the comments here, I think we're mostly talking about it in an attacking sense.

He's only just turned 23 so he has plenty of time to add to his attacking repertoire. Moreover, I think it's a little unfair to criticise him too much for not hitting the line more etc. when his main role has been to chase kicks. While it does maximise his skillset under the high ball, it also hasn't allowed him to do much else in attack.

I actually think the risk is higher from a defensive POV. IMO, working on his positioning and being very slow on the turn are the things he should be prioritising. If we're picking him as the safe option, that needs to apply to more than just defusing aerial bombs.

If we're looking at Furbank as his principal rival this season, it's an uncomfortable comparison. They're totally different players and who is the best choice is really dependent on how we want to play. There's no point in picking Furbank if the main tactic is chasing kicks just as picking Steward as a second playmaker isn't maximising his talents.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Barbeary's aggression and ability to carry in heavy traffic is something we've been crying out for.

Now likely to get banned but it's been great to see him get a run of games and really start to make the kind of mark on games the hype said he would.

 

[Which Tyler]

How long a ban are we looking at for Alfie?
Even an entry point of 6 weeks is likely to end up being 2*, and available for the entire 6N

* Halved, because talk about player welfare is all talk, no trouser. Then -1 to go to tackle school, because professionals genuinely don't know how to tackle each other.

NB: I've seen neither the match, nor the specific incidents, so it's a genuine question of where the entry point is likely to be.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

How long a ban are we looking at for Alfie?
Even an entry point of 6 weeks is likely to end up being 2, and available for the entire 6N (halved, because talk about player welfare is all talk, no trouser; then subtract one to go to tackle school, because professionals genuinely don't know how to tackle)

Yeah, if he does get banned (mentioned in the match thread but they seem to be way laxer on high tackles post RWC) I think it'll be 6 --> 3 --> 2 (with tackle school), meaning he's available for the 6N - considering how much Bath have rotated this season he'd have likely only played one of those games anyway, so not that much of a changeup to his schedule.

With that said: Will the EPS players miss a round of prem for camp? 6N Round 1 is 2nd Feb, there's a round of Prem on the weekend before - if so, and Barbeary is named in the initial EPS (tomorrow? whenever) then maybe they won't count that towards his ban and he'd miss the opening round of the 6N (which I don't think would harm his playing chances, tbh)

 

[Which Tyler]

Yeah, if he does get banned (mentioned in the match thread but they seem to be way laxer on high tackles post RWC) I think it'll be 6 --> 3 --> 2 (with tackle school), meaning he's available for the 6N - considering how much Bath have rotated this season he'd have likely only played one of those games anyway, so not that much of a changeup to his schedule.

With that said: Will the EPS players miss a round of prem for camp? 6N Round 1 is 2nd Feb, there's a round of Prem on the weekend before - if so, and Barbeary is named in the initial EPS (tomorrow? whenever) then maybe they won't count that towards his ban and he'd miss the opening round of the 6N (which I don't think would harm his playing chances, tbh)

Ah, missed that.

The other EPS question is, do we know how bug the squad called up will be? There's rumours of being a 50-man EPS; so playing silly buggers with an uncapped player to get a match counted would be pretty easy (pick 50 for a get-together, send half of them home, technically including any banned players).
Not that I think Barb.s is nailed on for a spot anyway, we've got some good competition for 8, even if none of them have a huge backlog of international experience (please gods we've put billy out to pasture)

 

[BrokenWing]

I think 'his stock is maybe higher' because when he came in to the team, he was individually good while most of the rest of the team were actively bad. It was also genuinely impressive at how quickly he stepped up to test level given how young he was at the time.

It also depends on how you're defining risk. Given the context of the comments here, I think we're mostly talking about it in an attacking sense.

He's only just turned 23 so he has plenty of time to add to his attacking repertoire. Moreover, I think it's a little unfair to criticise him too much for not hitting the line more etc. when his main role has been to chase kicks. While it does maximise his skillset under the high ball, it also hasn't allowed him to do much else in attack.

I actually think the risk is higher from a defensive POV. IMO, working on his positioning and being very slow on the turn are the things he should be prioritising. If we're picking him as the safe option, that needs to apply to more than just defusing aerial bombs.

If we're looking at Furbank as his principal rival this season, it's an uncomfortable comparison. They're totally different players and who is the best choice is really dependent on how we want to play. There's no point in picking Furbank if the main tactic is chasing kicks just as picking Steward as a second playmaker isn't maximising his talents.

Isn't that pretty much what I said? Because it's essentially what I was going for.

He's in pole because he's strong under the high ball, which is your low risk option IMO as most of the threats fullbacks have dealt with in the recent past have been from kicks.

Furbank is a different kind of player, I.E. he has different strengths and weaknesses.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Not that I think Barb.s is nailed on for a spot anyway, we've got some good competition for 8, even if none of them have a huge backlog of international experience (please gods we've put billy out to pasture)

I think Barbeary will be right up Borthwick's street TBH, just as he is mine. Natural power, gives go forward and the kind of player others can feed off. Also pretty good over the ball.

Earl's done brilliantly, but still feels like more of a utility back rower than out and out 8. Dombrandt's going well at club level but he had a shot and SB doesn't seem to fancy him or Mercer. Billy's day has to be done. Ludlam's another utility player. Assuming Barbeary doesn't cop a long ban I'd be amazed if he's not included.

With the likes of Barbeary, Martin and Underhill our back 5 options are starting to power up. Earl's pretty stocky, very quick and punches above his weight too. Give CCS a year or 2 and he should also be in that bracket. Encouraging, now for the front row….

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Yeah, I could see Barbeary being first choice 8 pretty quickly,
I think Earl will go to 7 with Curry (and Underhill?) out

Not sure who at 6 - guessing Ludlam still injured? Even if not he's not played since November - they'll probably stick a lock there (Chessum?), bench will be interesting to see for both Lock and Backrow.
Two backrowers with Chessum covering lock from the pitch? Pearson and B.Curry? Not really inundated with locks, Tizzard doesn't look great this season and Isiekwe playing a lot of 6 since coming back from injury

Actually forgot about Coles, he makes more sense
Supposedly Jonny Hill on the cusp of a return, but he's too thick - also if he's off to France at the end of the season I wouldn't waste the caps on him (same with LCD)

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I'd really like the look of:
6. (A hopefully rejuvenated) Pearson
7. Earl
8. Barbeary

Assuming Underhill is out.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Hammond may be a shout for the A game tbh, has been great for quins this season. In a 50 man EPS he could sneak in there as a shock imo

 

[BPM]

Agreed. Hammond has been consistently good. I don't see him as a contender for the main squad but for the A squad I rate him more highly than the likes of Munga (who I find completely underwhelming) and others like Bamber who seems to be being prioritised because he's massive rather than because he's playing particularly well.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Bamber is playing really well tbf,
Shouldn't be in the conversation for even the A game, at all, though, he's barely played 10 games of professional rugby union

I do find it funny that the only reason he plays Union is because Scotland tried to poach him - their scouts saw him playing rugby league, convinced him to convert to Union and got him a spot in the Bristol academy...only to find out he's got no Scottish ancestry and has no interest in moving to Scotland for residency/playing for Scotland

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Bamber is playing really well tbf,
Shouldn't be in the conversation for even the A game, at all, though, he's barely played 10 games of professional rugby union

I do find it funny that the only reason he plays Union is because Scotland tried to poach him - their scouts saw him playing rugby league, convinced him to convert to Union and got him a spot in the Bristol academy...only to find out he's got no Scottish ancestry and has no interest in moving to Scotland for residency/playing for Scotland

Really? Wouldn't that be something they checked first? I'm sure the majority of people in England don't have Scottish relatives.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Really? Wouldn't that be something they checked first? I'm sure the majority of people in England don't have Scottish relatives.

Just the way I heard it told - SRU have a specific scout for trying to poach people from Rugby League and he's the one who facilitated his move to union

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

SRU have a specific scout for trying to poach people from Rugby League

Genuinely curious how many have actually been poached

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

I think Coles has to be in with a shout for the 4th choice lock spot. He's so skilled and really powered up this season.

I think Moon would be in a chance for the England A team. He's a solid performer and a proper TH lock option but Cole's is just a lot more skilled.

I'm genuinely really excited about the squad but also nervous that SB will turn out to be the drab boring, average coach we worried he would be.

 

[Rugbyfan564]

Six contenders for England's Six Nations squad

England head coach Steve Borthwick is set to name his first squad since the Rugby World Cup. Who might he pick on Wednesday?

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[TRF_Olyy]

It would be irresponsible to play Asher in senior international at his age - he's only 2months out from still being eligible for u18s