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England 2024/25

Always enjoy watching Tyrone Green. Been with Quins since 2020 so guess a residential eligibility's coming into view. Wonder if he'd be interested.
 
Rugbyfan564 said:
Residency is five years now and I'm not sure it's good for the English game to go down that route for players.
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Yep, but we're nearly in 2024 so it's not that far off and he's only 25.

Much more sanguine about that kind of stuff than I was. Five years would be a pretty decent contribution to the domestic game and if he was eligible and interested we'd have to consider him on his merits.
 
Vieux Talonneur said:
Half of Farrell's problem is that he's still playing. He'll be looked at much more positively after he's been retired for 5 or 10 years. Always happens.

But there's little doubt that he's not the influential player he was and that the iceman moniker, which was deserved for his goal kicking, has melted.

He's doing the best he can, you can never ever accuse him of lack of effort or commitment. So as Stuart Barnes said in the Times, save the ire for the coaches who either aren't getting the best out of him or who picked him when unwarranted.

But in the antisocial media era, I think people are just going to have to accept that crap goes with the territory - that genie's not going back in a bottle any time soon, distasteful as it may be.
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Totally disagree with this statement.I think farrells playing some of his best rugby and that thought was echoed by mark mccall in his recent interview on the current situation regarding Farrell.The problem for me is fans needing a scapegoat and whilst I'm not saying farrells not made mistakes but other players making those same mistakes get far less scrutiny.I think it's a case of be careful what you wish for with some fans over Farrell because he's still Englands best player in my opinion and it wouldn't surprise me to see him rip it up in the premiership this season and leave a lot of people with egg on there faces.
 
I think a huge part of many England fans' frustrations with him relate to the hype created by the media. For years he was portrayed as this messianic figure when that didn't actually match what he was actually producing on the park. Any flaws he has were glossed over or outright ignored. They've only recently changed their tune.

Add that to the fact that he was always practically guaranteed to start over anyone else irrespective of form and it's easy to see where some of the contempt comes from.

However, the key thing in all of this is that he didn't pick himself or write his own hyperbolic media …

I equate it to working with someone who is constantly over praised and over promoted. It might not be their fault, but those types of people aren't usually liked.
 
BPM said:
I think a huge part of many England fans' frustrations with him relate to the hype created by the media. For years he was portrayed as this messianic figure when that didn't actually match what he was actually producing on the park. Any flaws he has were glossed over or outright ignored. They've only recently changed their tune.

Add that to the fact that he was always practically guaranteed to start over anyone else irrespective of form and it's easy to see where some of the contempt comes from.

However, the key thing in all of this is that he didn't pick himself or write his own hyperbolic media …

I equate it to working with someone who is constantly over praised and over promoted. It might not be their fault, but those types of people aren't usually liked.
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Mate I've not seen that in the media.Ive seen someone who's had more unfair flack than he's had praise and it's been done with an agenda by some people in the media.There's lots of players been pretty much guaranteed starts if fit who haven't particularly performed every game who have been left alone.
 
I'm sorry that Farrell's been unfairly targeted be the online hate mob, but if you think he hasn't had years and years of often wildly overstated praise from the media, you really don't care about the truth or you've only been following rugby for five minutes.

The media has only turned on him in the last year or two. Almost every article and every pundit was effusive in their praise for the vast majority of his career.

In the last little while, there's no doubt he's had a lot of flack. Not all of it is unfair and TBH, the criticism of his performances is mostly accurate. It's when it descends in to personal criticism that it's wrong. There's a difference.
 
whocaresaboutthetruth said:
Mate I've not seen that in the media.Ive seen someone who's had more unfair flack than he's had praise and it's been done with an agenda by some people in the media.There's lots of players been pretty much guaranteed starts if fit who haven't particularly performed every game who have been left alone.
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Like who?
 
BPM said:
I'm sorry that Farrell's been unfairly targeted be the online hate mob, but if you think he hasn't had years and years of often wildly overstated praise from the media, you really don't care about the truth or you've only been following rugby for five minutes.

The media has only turned on him in the last year or two. Almost every article and every pundit was effusive in their praise for the vast majority of his career.

In the last little while, there's no doubt he's had a lot of flack. Not all of it is unfair and TBH, the criticism of his performances is mostly accurate. It's when it descends in to personal criticism that it's wrong. There's a difference.
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Nah mate I've been involved in rugby for a while.
 
Some unfair comments on both smith and ford in the bbc comments section on the quins sale game…looks like the battle is on for the next hate mob victim with Farrell out the way…how sad 🫣
 
whocaresaboutthetruth said:
Nah mate I've been involved in rugby for a while.
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in that case, I don't know how can you possibly believe that there's been a long running media hate campaign against Farrell? For the majority of his career he's been their darling - 'The Iceman', 'Captain Fantastic' etc.

I don't condone it, but the British media has done what it often does with sporting heroes. They build them up and then tear them down. In comparison to many footballers, Farrell's had a very favourable relationship with the media.

With all that said, I'm very sad that he has found himself in a place where he and his family are receiving unacceptable levels of personal abuse.
 
BPM said:
in that case, I don't know how can you possibly believe that there's been a long running media hate campaign against Farrell? For the majority of his career he's been their darling - 'The Iceman', 'Captain Fantastic' etc.

I don't condone it, but the British media has done what it often does with sporting heroes. They build them up and then tear them down. In comparison to many footballers, Farrell's had a very favourable relationship with the media.

With all that said, I'm very sad that he has found himself in a place where he and his family are receiving unacceptable levels of personal abuse.
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I agree with you that the British media often do that to sporting stars but I would suggest that Owen "overstated" praise was probably down to it being undeniable for the press to disregard his achievements and winners medals throughout his career and I think the agenda probably goes back longer than 2 years.i would personally say and I may be incorrect but I think the almost iconic picture of him facing the haka in the semi final and what most people presumed was him smirking was a catalyst for the almost "its ok to abuse Owen Farrell attitude because he's smug"…Barnes's and Dawson have lived off slagging owen off for years now.Dawson was even slagging him off when he wasn't even playing 😂
 
whocaresaboutthetruth said:
I agree with you that the British media often do that to sporting stars but I would suggest that Owen "overstated" praise was probably down to it being undeniable for the press to disregard his achievements and winners medals throughout his career and I think the agenda probably goes back longer than 2 years.i would personally say and I may be incorrect but I think the almost iconic picture of him facing the haka in the semi final and what most people presumed was him smirking was a catalyst for the almost "its ok to abuse Owen Farrell attitude because he's smug"…Barnes's and Dawson have lived off slagging owen off for years now.Dawson was even slagging him off when he wasn't even playing 😂
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'Owen' eh? You two being on first name terms would explain a lot.

Depends what you regard as 'the agenda'. Maybe the arguments questioning whether he should be an automatic pick for England (and the Lions) go back 4yrs or so, but the media have really only been on his back in the past 18mths or so.
 
whocaresaboutthetruth said:
Totally disagree with this statement.I think farrells playing some of his best rugby and that thought was echoed by mark mccall in his recent interview on the current situation regarding Farrell.The problem for me is fans needing a scapegoat and whilst I'm not saying farrells not made mistakes but other players making those same mistakes get far less scrutiny.I think it's a case of be careful what you wish for with some fans over Farrell because he's still Englands best player in my opinion and it wouldn't surprise me to see him rip it up in the premiership this season and leave a lot of people with egg on there faces.
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He may have been playing some of his best rugby for Saracens, but it certainly hasn't translated to international level recently. He had a few good moments but nothing exceptional. Also while he may be talented personally, you still haven't explained why England's attack is so awful, especially with Farrell at 10. He's also been criticised for his tackling technique and rapport with the refs, both of which for me are valid criticisms. I don't think it's entirely his fault, Jones and Borthwick to an extent are to blame for picking him regardless of his form or temperament.
 
whocaresaboutthetruth said:
Nah mate I've been involved in rugby for a while.
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BPM said:
'Owen' eh? You two being on first name terms would explain a lot.

Depends what you regard as 'the agenda'. Maybe the arguments questioning whether he should be an automatic pick for England (and the Lions) go back 4yrs or so, but the media have really only been on his back in the past 18mths or so.maybe I
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Reiser99 said:
He may have been playing some of his best rugby for Saracens, but it certainly hasn't translated to international level recently. He had a few good moments but nothing exceptional. Also while he may be talented personally, you still haven't explained why England's attack is so awful, especially with Farrell at 10. He's also been criticised for his tackling technique and rapport with the refs, both of which for me are valid criticisms. I don't think it's entirely his fault, Jones and Borthwick to an extent are to blame for picking him regardless of his form or temperament.
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Is it so better without Farrell??…smith and ford haven't exactly set the world on fire when starting..I'd say in recent years Englands best performances(which have been few and far between)have been with Owen sorry Owen Farrell at 10…I'll always say a 10 is only as good as his forwards and England World Cup aside just couldn't front up in the forwards.And to be honest the England forwards available now have more potential than the England backs to be world class players in my opinion but come up short
 

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