England 2023/24

[Which Tyler]

I think it's 10 changes per international period, and then a whole new squad at the start of the RWC cycle

It used to be an entire new EPS every September/October, with X replacements (6?) allowed ahead of the 6N and again ahead of the SIs. Injury replacements being freebees. Also, the head coach not technically limited to selecting from within the EPS for actual matches.
But that was before Jones, when everything was kept a bit secret, and may well have been negotiated.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

It used to be an entire new EPS every September/October, with X replacements (6?) allowed ahead of the 6N and again ahead of the SIs. Injury replacements being freebees. Also, the head coach not technically limited to selecting from within the EPS for actual matches.
But that was before Jones, when everything was kept a bit secret, and may well have been negotiated.

I did question myself over the new squad every RWC vs every year
I saw an article from the start of EJs reign that mentioned 10 changes, but that was almost a decade ago so I imagine a number of things have changed since then what with COVID and central contract renegotiations

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

For once I don't actually think we need a load of changes to the EPS. There are a few player combos we really need to work on but in general we are starting to see a plan.

It's worth noting that for the six nations that SB did bring in quite a few players and at times had more than the 36 players. Not sure if that means he can bring in extended squad members or anyone, who knows but we started with 36 and had more a lot of the time according to the press releases.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

For once I don't actually think we need a load of changes to the EPS.

Yeah, realistically 10 changes going into a series is plenty, especially with the various loopholes (i.e. continuing to name a long term injured player and then getting an extra replacement - retirements/unavailability doesn't count towards the figure too)
If you're needing to swap almost a third of your extended squad then something's gone very wrong

The only time there should be an exception is if there's a new HC - their first squad should be allowed to be completely fresh if required

 

[Scotty]

Yeah, realistically 10 changes going into a series is plenty, especially with the various loopholes (i.e. continuing to name a long term injured player and then getting an extra replacement - retirements/unavailability doesn't count towards the figure too)
If you're needing to swap almost a third of your extended squad then something's gone very wrong

The only time there should be an exception is if there's a new HC - their first squad should be allowed to be completely fresh if required

So 10 changes, who do we want and who would they replace? Im struggling to think of more than a few?

In??, Manu out
Spencer out, JVP in? If fit i can just see it happening
Slieghtholm vs Murley in, Muir out?
Baxter in? Out?
Who else is really putting their hand up or needing to be dropped?

Im struggling to think of alot of changes id want to make.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

In??, Manu out

Think Manu might actually make it 11 - if he's made himself unavailable for selection (think theoretically he can still be picked this summer)

Slieghtholm vs Murley in, Muir out?
Baxter in? Out?

Think Sleightholme will definitely be in, Murley it feels like his face doesn't fit for whatever reason - was Muir a full pick or an injury replacement in the 6N? Could see Roebuck dropping out
Baxter has to tour - I'm one of Obano's biggest cheerleaders but with how little of a look in he got in the 6N then maybe Baxter is the better pick looking at it long term?

Langdon in for Blamire, has to happen

Personal preference:
One of the young 12s in for Dingwall
Someone else in for Roots (Tuima? Fisilau? There's a lot of talent in the back 5 in the prem)
If Ben Curry isn't going to get a look in then take Guy Pepper to hold tackle bags instead, he'd benefit more from it

 

[Scotty]

Think Manu might actually make it 11 - if he's made himself unavailable for selection (think theoretically he can still be picked this summer)

Think Sleightholme will definitely be in, Murley it feels like his face doesn't fit for whatever reason - was Muir a full pick or an injury replacement in the 6N? Could see Roebuck dropping out
Baxter has to tour - I'm one of Obano's biggest cheerleaders but with how little of a look in he got in the 6N then maybe Baxter is the better pick looking at it long term?

Langdon in for Blamire, has to happen

Personal preference:
One of the young 12s in for Dingwall
Someone else in for Roots (Tuima? Fisilau? There's a lot of talent in the back 5 in the prem)
If Ben Curry isn't going to get a look in then take Guy Pepper to hold tackle bags instead, he'd benefit more from it

Agree on all that but dont think Fisilau is ready, Tuima i wpuldnt be against but is he a lock or 8? Roots is neither

But if all that happened id be happy.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Tuima i wpuldnt be against but is he a lock or 8? Roots is neither

My thoughts would be to have him there as hybrid bench cover, with Chessum taking Roots' starting spot - but realistically there more as a lock

Would like to get him involved asap as I feel he's the closest we've got to the kind of bulk Martin brings to the pack

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Of the original 6N squad we're either going to lose or have to wonder for various reasons about:

Heyes, Marler, Obano, Isiekwe, B Curry, Dombrandt, Pearson, Roots, Spencer, Beard, Dingwall & Roebuck. Personally I'd wonder about Daly too and LCD probably stays for experience although Langdon's definitely worth a look. Add to that from the call ups: Blamire, Ewels, Randall, Ojomoh, Manu and Muir.

Not saying that Borthwick will or should jettison most of those, just that I wouldn't be shocked if any of those players didn't tour.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

LCD probably stays for experience although Langdon's definitely worth a look.

Meh, George is enough experience imo.

Potentially if Porter continues like he did v Bordeaux, he may get a shout?

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Meh, George is enough experience imo.

Potentially if Porter continues like he did v Bordeaux, he may get a shout?

I'll remind you of that when George goes down in the first minute v the ABs….

He went well and JvP may be back in the frame?

 

[BPM]

Think Manu might actually make it 11 - if he's made himself unavailable for selection (think theoretically he can still be picked this summer)

Think Sleightholme will definitely be in, Murley it feels like his face doesn't fit for whatever reason - was Muir a full pick or an injury replacement in the 6N? Could see Roebuck dropping out
Baxter has to tour - I'm one of Obano's biggest cheerleaders but with how little of a look in he got in the 6N then maybe Baxter is the better pick looking at it long term?

Langdon in for Blamire, has to happen

Personal preference:
One of the young 12s in for Dingwall
Someone else in for Roots (Tuima? Fisilau? There's a lot of talent in the back 5 in the prem)
If Ben Curry isn't going to get a look in then take Guy Pepper to hold tackle bags instead, he'd benefit more from it

I disagree. Murley was in the last cut prior to the RWC.

He then didn't play this season until after the 6N squad was announced so wasn't really in a position to be selected. He started for the A team and got a hat trick.

If we were talking about Radwan or OHC I'd agree, but I'd argue that the evidence suggests Murley is at the very least in the picture.

While he was injured, IFW and Sleightholme have stolen a march on him, but I definitely wouldn't write him off.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I hope you're right, but I can't see it tbh
For now, anyway - he's only 24, feels like he should be much older with how long he's looked a serious contender

 

[BPM]

Well it would have been very generous to pick Murley for the 6N with 0 games under his belt. In the circumstances, the fact he wasn't selected is fair enough and doesn't immediately suggest 'his face doesn't fit'.

In the one hand, IFW has created more competition for him, but I'd argue he's also done him a bit of a favour in showing that we don't need to be prioritising kick-chase when it comes to our wingers.

I think it has paved the way for less one-dimensional thinking which is good for Murley and Sleightholme.

 

[AngloScotsHybrid]

Debate topic: who's the better winger Ollie Sleightholme or his dad?

 

[Which Tyler]

His dad's 51 - so Ollie really ought to be much better.
Ollie's come through a professional structure to get to where he is; so "at the same age" then Ollie really ought to be much better.
Jon wins on career achievements, but that's as helpful as the above, as they're at slightly different stages of the rugby careers.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Something silly, but an England pick by clubs units only

Front row - Quins - Marler, Walker, Collier
Second row - tigers - Martin and Chessum
Back row - Bath - hill, underhill and Barbeary
Half back - Sale - Quirke/Warr and Ford
Centre - Sarries - Hartley and Lozoski
Back three - Saints - Freeman, sleight honk and Furbank

Beat my team only using English club units (can't repeat a team). So many great options to choose from.

 

[AngloScotsHybrid]

Something silly, but an England pick by clubs units only

Front row - Quins - Marler, Walker, Collier
Second row - tigers - Martin and Chessum
Back row - Bath - hill, underhill and Barbeary
Half back - Sale - Quirke/Warr and Ford
Centre - Sarries - Hartley and Lozoski
Back three - Saints - Freeman, sleight honk and Furbank

Beat my team only using English club units (can't repeat a team). So many great options to choose from.

Like it. Only the centre partnership is questionable. What about Ojomoh and Lawrence instead.

 

[Which Tyler]

Like it. Only the centre partnership is questionable. What about Ojomoh and Lawrence instead.

Yeah, there's a few clubs with similar quality options at centre.
Exeter with Devoto & Slade
Saints with Dingwall & Freeman

2nd row & backrow seem like no-brainers to me.
Quins and Saints would have good arguments at halfback.

No clear leaders at front row and back 3 for me; Quins and Saints seem fair.

If I'm being cheeky though:
Front row - Bath. Obano, Dunn, Stuart
2nd Row - Bath. Ewels, Stooke
Backrow - Bath. Hill, Underhill, Barbeary
Halfbacks - Bath. Spencer, err.... Bailey (probably the only unit we're simply not contending)
Centres - Bath. Ojomoh, Lawrence
Back 3 - Bath. Cokanasiga, Muir, DeGlanville

 

[Saintjay]

Debate topic: who's the better winger Ollie Sleightholme or his dad?

His dads a northerner who played for Bath. Where as Ollie is from Northampton so clearly the winner. Part of the Northampton Old Scouts production line. Lawes, Cohen, Thompson etc. Not that i have much love for Old Scouts. In all seriousness it's probably to early to compare.