England 2021/22

[Geordie]

Two people and two quite different sides.

And we'll still be a million miles off Eddies team...

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I know that EJ's team will be nothing like this

I don't think there's anything overly outlandish/un-EJ about it tbh, with the exception of Farrell not being in the 23 (I could see Smith starting and Farrell on the bench for Tonga)

 

[ncurd]

(I could see Smith starting and Farrell on the bench for Tonga)

 

[Reiser99]

I don't think there's anything overly outlandish/un-EJ about it tbh, with the exception of Farrell not being in the 23 (I could see Smith starting and Farrell on the bench for Tonga)

Dunno I can still see Lawes at 6, Curry at 8, May and Furbank in

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

9. Youngs, 10. Furbank, 11. May, 12. Farrell,

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Dunno I can still see Lawes at 6, Curry at 8, May and Furbank in

True, the backrow is the most experimental part - I think Underhill is most likely to be the odd one out
The same reports that said Curry might be at 8 were predicting the squad to be very different, so I've not got much faith in it

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

All these articles of Owen Farrell praising Smith screams 10. Smith, 12. Farrell

 

[Geordie]

Is anyone actually expecting anything other than Farrell at 12? Im certainly not.

10 Smith
12 Farrell (Captain)
13 (Manu / Marchant / Slade) - TBC

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Honestly was hoping that Faz might be played at 10 TBH. (Would rather Smith at 10, but at least with Faz at 10 all the responsibility will fall on him and not the 10)

 

[Geordie]

Yeah i hope they improve the attacking tactics to support Smith/ Dombrandt etc, not just expect him to work miracles with the dire turgid tactics they have been playing with.

 

[Crash Hamster]

"Youngs has the ball [30 second ad break], it reaches Smith, to Farrell [boot.] [ad. break] [lineout][interview with Johnny May, redundant on the wing]"

You probably get to ditch the ad breaks with Amazon Prime.

 

[ncurd]

Honestly was hoping that Faz might be played at 10 TBH. (Would rather Smith at 10, but at least with Faz at 10 all the responsibility will fall on him and not the 10)

Pretty much in some ways I'd hope for this Faz the legend has to be broken in more than just a few rugby fans who've always been dubious about his qualities. At the moment there's still perception he has to be on the field when in reality he's problem.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

"Youngs has the ball [30 second ad break], it reaches Smith, to Farrell [boot.] [ad. break] [lineout][interview with Johnny May, redundant on the wing]"

You probably get to ditch the ad breaks with Amazon Prime.

My hope is that Smith just doesn't give him the ball.

Honestly, I reckon the combo of Smith and kick first think later Faz might work well with the 50/22. If teams are dropping players back because Faz is always expected to boot it, then it might create those small gaps that Smith is so good at darting through. In a similar way to Andre the Giant draws players away latteraly from Smith at Quins, Faz might draw them away perpendicularly.

Or am I clutching at straws?

 

[ncurd]

My hope is that Smith just doesn't give him the ball.

Honestly, I reckon the combo of Smith and kick first think later Faz might work well with the 50/22. If teams are dropping players back because Faz is always expected to boot it, then it might create those small gaps that Smith is so good at darting through. In a similar way to Andre the Giant draws players away latteraly from Smith at Quins, Faz might draw them away perpendicularly.

Or am I clutching at straws?

Straws,

Smith has the same qualities as Ford does the issue is also Youngs glacial speed (unless he's having one of those days where he doesn't, this usually comes about the time he's about to be dropped by the last remaining non-detractors). Defenses are better set meaning those spaces for quick darting through aren't there. Combine that with the fact literally nobody is scared of what Faz's kick could do your back three amply covers it in a traditional sense. This means Smith pretty much has to give it to 12 (like Ford) and then we no longer have possession. England have looked better when the pass doesn't go to Faz but you can't do that every phase and thus we lose possession.

Currently Smith is set up to fail just like Ford.

 

[Teddington Logic]

Well, Danny Care, who knows them both far better than the rest of us reckons it will work and that we will see a very different Faz as a result

I am here to be convinced by that.

But to give Faz his due (and I am not a fan boy by any stretch of the imagination) he has upped his game this season, albeit still with a tendency to kick too often, even against Wasp's 3rd team

 

[Teddington Logic]

I actually think the 9 who gets picked is a bigger issue than Faz at 12

Youngs is too slow and just box kicks and isn't even the best 9 at his club
Randall can be electric but is a glory hound and runs off without support too often which will be brutally exposed at International level
Quirke is the best of the 3 and I think would form the best partnership with Smith and Dombrandt in the way Care does for Quins, but he is probably 3rd in the reckoning for the team out of the current squad as Randall will be rewarded for his summer displays despite being recently a bit off the pace in the Premiership compared to Quirke

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Straws,

Smith has the same qualities as Ford does the issue is also Youngs glacial speed (unless he's having one of those days where he doesn't, this usually comes about the time he's about to be dropped by the last remaining non-detractors). Defenses are better set meaning those spaces for quick darting through aren't there. Combine that with the fact literally nobody is scared of what Faz's kick could do your back three amply covers it in a traditional sense. This means Smith pretty much has to give it to 12 (like Ford) and then we no longer have possession. England have looked better when the pass doesn't go to Faz but you can't do that every phase and thus we lose possession.

Currently Smith is set up to fail just like Ford.

Smith has a far far better running game than Ford which changes the dynamic imo.

We'll see I guess

 

[Which Tyler]

Smith has a far far better running game than Ford which changes the dynamic imo.

We'll see I guess

Not sure if you under-rate Fords's runnign game, or I'm under-rating Smith's - or even if I'm splitting hairs where I shouldn't. Both are very good at it.
The difference is that Ford has had 6 years of being small, and getting rag-dolled by defences if he runs and doesn't quite make the break; as he's had no support from his IC and less than ideal support from his OSF. So he stopped particularly trying.
If Smith tries for England what he does for Quins, but without Andre on his shoulder and without an OSF that's looking to support that break / half-break, then Smith will get rag-dolled and lose possession.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Not sure if you under-rate Fords's runnign game, or I'm under-rating Smith's - or even if I'm splitting hairs where I shouldn't. Both are very good at it.
The difference is that Ford has had 6 years of being small, and getting rag-dolled by defences if he runs and doesn't quite make the break; as he's had no support from his IC and less than ideal support from his OSF. So he stopped particularly trying.
If Smith tries for England what he does for Quins, but without Andre on his shoulder and without an OSF that's looking to support that break / half-break, then Smith will get rag-dolled and lose possession.

I think you're under rating Smith's tbh, it's a massive part of his game and is part of the reason Quins attack functions so well - a bit like Cooper's ability to beat almost anyone on the run as well as chucking a perfect wide ball causes defenders to pause for a second too long, meaning that Smith just has to choose the right option.

Ford's is decent, hes a small, quick chap, but it's nowhere near smiths imo.

Like his try again Bath this week - he has scored that exact same try loads and loads of times now and still noone seems to be able to deal with it

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

We'll see come the international time.
but not sure how having a better run game would change the dynamic.

Flankers can just target Smith knowing that the 10 can have a easy cover v Farrell.

Whereas if you have a tuilagi or a Andre outside then the flankers have to focus on them.

And let's not compare Bath of all teams please…