England 2021/22

[Ragey Erasmus]

I guess who works with the back row of Lawes and Curry better?

Eddie isn't going to alter his entire game plan for 1 player though.

It's like if Borthwick gets the role, do people think he's going to move away from his Wiese, Vunipola style 8 that he has always had?

Is the reason he isn't going to change his gameplan for 1 player because he's built him gameplan around the availability of 1 player who doesn't have a readily available like for like replacement? That would be pretty **** managing. We've had this with Tuilagi, we are having it with Billy. Managers are paid large sums to deal with this sort of thing. Whilst a gameplan shouldn't completely change for 1 player, the flip side is having a gameplan that is so rigid it can't adapt to the loss of 1 player is just as bad.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Name me one manager in international rugby that changes his style of play and has been successful?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Name me one manager in international rugby that changes his style of play and has been successful?

Jones previously?

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Name me one manager in international rugby that changes his style of play and has been successful?

Lancaster.

He successfully added in a rugby league convert and changed our style using his physicality to take us to a great home World Cup win back in 2015.

That's how I remember it anyhow.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I think the private school comments are pretty fair. If you've lived a life like a Tory and had everything handed to you and not fought for nothing it can sometimes play out like that in later life and isn't always conducive with leadership. Perhaps the same problem with Ireland when push comes to shove in a WC the private school boys can buckle under the pressure.

Having said that he's clearly **** stirring and playing some smokescreen mind games as well but that doesn't mean to say he doesn't have a point. I think most English fans would love to see more working class kids like Genge in the England set up.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

I think the private school comments are pretty fair. If you've lived a life like a Tory and had everything handed to you and not fought for nothing it can sometimes play out like that in later life and isn't always conducive with leadership. Perhaps the same problem with Ireland when push comes to shove in a WC the private school boys can buckle under the pressure.

Is this based on any actual evidence or purely stereotypes that you've conjured up?

 

[RedruthRFC]

I think the private school comments are pretty fair. If you've lived a life like a Tory and had everything handed to you and not fought for nothing it can sometimes play out like that in later life and isn't always conducive with leadership. Perhaps the same problem with Ireland when push comes to shove in a WC the private school boys can buckle under the pressure.

Having said that he's clearly **** stirring and playing some smokescreen mind games as well but that doesn't mean to say he doesn't have a point. I think most English fans would love to see more working class kids like Genge in the England set up.

To me, the big factor is that players today haven't had a life outside the professional rugby bubble to grow as people. I always hark back to the 1997 Lions tour and the number of leaders, capable of giving a team talk or motivating a side. In no particular order, you had Keith Wood, Rob Wainwright, Martin Johnson, Jason Leonard, John Bentley, Lawrence Dallaglio and Tim Rodber. I find there's a stark contrast between the women's and men's teams as to how they come across and attribute this to the women's greater life experience.

I'd love to see your (or Eddie's) evidence of this educational divide in leadership, for example a list of your top 10 captains of all time and their educational backgrounds.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Is this based on any actual evidence or purely stereotypes that you've conjured up?

Oh yeah, predominately anecdotal and looking at englands poor, imo, WC return given their player pool size, economic strength and the wealth of talent they have consistently produced.

I do recognise this though and it might be something hard to do a study on which is why I used words like "sometimes" "isn't always" and "perhaps" as by no means does it automatically mean if you went to private school you lack leadership or the ability to roll your sleeves up when the going gets tough which, again, it seems to me, is a problem the English have had for a while

 

[Welsh Exile]

To me, the big factor is that players today haven't had a life outside the professional rugby bubble to grow as people. I always hark back to the 1997 Lions tour and the number of leaders, capable of giving a team talk or motivating a side. In no particular order, you had Keith Wood, Rob Wainwright, Martin Johnson, Jason Leonard, John Bentley, Lawrence Dallaglio and Tim Rodber. I find there's a stark contrast between the women's and men's teams as to how they come across and attribute this to the women's greater life experience.

I'd love to see your (or Eddie's) evidence of this educational divide in leadership, for example a list of your top 10 captains of all time and their educational backgrounds.

Was he focussing on just captains though? I thought he was more talking about a collective mindset. Could be wrong though as not re read what he said.

Actually, thinking about it, wouldn't SA totally disprove everything I'm saying as aren't most SA rugby players from private schools? and they've consistently produced great results over the years and you certainly wouldn't say they shy away when they're on the back food and the going gets tough. Perhaps it's more of a cultural thing than a private school thing per se.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Didn't AWJ go to private school?

Edit: Up to £19k a year, posh git

 

[Welsh Exile]

Didn't AWJ go to private school?

Edit: Up to £19k a year, posh git

I think there's a few others as well. Obviously not as many as others but still a fair few. Not sure who and how many off the top of my head though.

AWJ was from a pretty middle class family if I'm not mistaken. But clearly his ancestors are all Welsh warriors and kings so he's ok.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Perhaps instead of focussing on "private school culture"specifically he should've focussed on the broader "English rugby culture" which the English private school sub-culture also feeds into. But then that would've maybe not got the desired effect he was looking to get from the press. I always expect some ulterior motives behind everything Eddie says to be honest.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Sorry for the triple post but maybe Eddie is trying to light a fire underneath certain players with these comments as a kind of reverse psychology. That's probably being kind, though, sounds like excuses. While the players on the pitch are the most important thing in a big believer in how important to end elite managers are. Listen to players in any sport coached by the best and they'll talk about how they were improved both in whatever discipline they weee in but also how those coaches improved them as human beings.

I actually think Eddie is a top class coach even though I think he is extremely lucky to still be England manager and should've really got the sack. At the end of the day motivating your squad and inspiring a fighting spirit is your most important job and he doesn't seem to be getting the best of of them at present, not by a long shot.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Yeah I don't think the issue is necessarily private schools producing players it's more that the state schools don't get the same opportunities,

I think this is shifting a bit with AASE, and we're seeing a lot more players coming through from more "humble" backgrounds (or attending state school before getting 6th form scholarships with the poshos)


I don't buy the whole thing about private schools softening the players at all

 

[Crash Hamster]

This would be the same Eddie Jones who promptly drops any player who shows signs of independent thought, yes?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Didn't AWJ go to private school?

Edit: Up to £19k a year, posh git

They paid him 19k a year to attend? Bit of a bargain for them IMO

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Jones has has been "admonished" by the RFU who have issued a conciliatory inclusive statement.

A fair bit of flak had been flying including from John Olver, ex rugby master at Oundle, former England hooker and uncle of the Currys.

In a knee knocking development for Jones, Bill Sweeney has apparently spoken "personally" to him about it.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Yeah I don't think the issue is necessarily private schools producing players it's more that the state schools don't get the same opportunities,

Availability as well. Every school has goalposts. Sometimes many of them. Maybe 1 in 3 state schools (absolutely pulled that figure out of my arse) have a rugby pitch.

 

[Reiser99]

Availability as well. Every school has goalposts. Sometimes many of them. Maybe 1 in 3 state schools (absolutely pulled that figure out of my arse) have a rugby pitch.

Definitely less I'd say

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Jones really is a prick isn't he. Why would he say something that will cause divisiveness in the camp and in general with comments like that.

So sick of him.