England 2021/22

[TRF_Olyy]

Unironically one of the best options in the league
Definitely looks like he's got enough life left in the legs to make next summer too

 

[BPM]

Raffi properly tore his hamstring vs Bristol, bad surgery today and not due back until mid-to-late preseason

Randall, Mitchell, Youngs for the summer then?
Or just Randall, Youngs?

Crap news on Raffi.

I doubt Youngs will travel so it opens the door for someone - probably Mitchell, unless there is a recall for Robson?

 

[Geordie]

I hope Raffi isnt going to turn into one of those "What if" players whos career is ruined by injuries...

 

[TRF_Olyy]

'You effing don't look like you want to play for England. You're fat, you're lazy'

England head coach Eddie Jones isn't one to mince his words, something Montpellier No.8 Zach Mercer found out firsthand...

www.rugbypass.com

Of all the players that headline could've been about I did not expect it to be Mercer, haha

 

[Reiser99]

'You effing don't look like you want to play for England. You're fat, you're lazy'

England head coach Eddie Jones isn't one to mince his words, something Montpellier No.8 Zach Mercer found out firsthand...

www.rugbypass.com

Of all the players that headline could've been about I did not expect it to be Mercer, haha

What mystifies me is how many players support this approach. I honestly don't get it.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

What mystifies me is how many players support this approach. I honestly don't get it.

Stockholm syndrome, I guess

An extreme/tongue in cheek explanation, but these players have all been in the pro sports environment since their mid-to-late teens, they've known nothing else so think it's normal

 

[BPM]

I don't think they do 'support it' really. They probably just know that they need to go along with it to get picked …

I hope Raffi isnt going to turn into one of those "What if" players whos career is ruined by injuries...

Yes. He does seem worryingly injury prone for such a young guy.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I mean rugby is lads club kinda of thing.
Man up etc

I don't think it's a pro sport thing I think it's a culture thing.

 

[Reiser99]

I get that tough love is sometimes needed, but there should be support too. Maybe he got better feedback later, but just telling someone that in your opinion they are fat and lazy isn't exactly what I'd call constructive criticism.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Don't forget this also comes hot on the heels of Mercer saying that he was totally cut off after his last international without any feedback or work ons.

While he's wrapped this up with nice words about respect it's screamingly clear that Mercer is unimpressed with his treatment and now isn't afraid to say it.

He's basically out of contention at the moment. Those in or around the squad are going to be much more reticent to speak out as Jones has their international future / earnings potential in his hands and has a history of cutting people dead.

 

[higgik]

'You effing don't look like you want to play for England. You're fat, you're lazy'

England head coach Eddie Jones isn't one to mince his words, something Montpellier No.8 Zach Mercer found out firsthand...

www.rugbypass.com

Of all the players that headline could've been about I did not expect it to be Mercer, haha

And yet Billy was first name on the sheet, when not injured!!!!!

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I could kinda understand the "tough love" if a player had approached Jones essentially demanding to be selected and was given a frank rebuttal but to just seemingly randomly call up a player, ask if they wanted to play for England and then just insult them, say they can't and then end the call... That's just not normal. I do think Jones gets off on a massive power trip.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Wonder how Jones the player - decent but not quite good enough - would have coped with Jones the coach. Suspect he'd have hated it - although he dishes it out, when the pressure's been on from the media we've seen some evidence of a pretty thin skin. Do as you'd be done to and all that.

As I've always said, wait for the books.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

And yet Billy was first name on the sheet, when not injured!!!!!

Recency bias. He was in the convo for best 8 in the world for years.

People literally rewrite history based on form and it's really weird to me

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Recency bias. He was in the convo for best 8 in the world for years.

People literally rewrite history based on form and it's really weird to me

He was unfit for a large majority of his caps though so it's a fair point. Usually because he was coming off the back of an injury though but still Jones used England games to get him up to speed.

Also the Billy and world class conversation is a lifetime ago now.

 

[higgik]

He was unfit for a large majority of his caps though so it's a fair point. Usually because he was coming off the back of an injury though but still Jones used England games to get him up to speed.

Also the Billy and world class conversation is a lifetime ago now.

Exactly.
Trying to make the point that Billy was in the team, even when he was obviously unfit.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Exactly.
Trying to make the point that Billy was in the team, even when he was obviously unfit.

Yet he was one of the best in the world for a large chunk of that time. It's not the same as a premiership upstart being "fat and lazy" in Eddie's eyes.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Yet he was one of the best in the world for a large chunk of that time. It's not the same as a premiership upstart being "fat and lazy" in Eddie's eyes.

We are talking in circles though.
At points people were taking about him being world class (although I don't really think he was ever a complete 8) but also at points in his England caps he was fat and unfit.

Both can be true.

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

Is there any truth to the stream of media claiming Farrell's back on top form? I've not watched him since he's been started playing again, only seen a couple of highlight reels.

If he were back to peak 2016 or 2019 form I'd not be wildly upset to see him start at 12.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Is there any truth to the stream of media claiming Farrell's back on top form? I've not watched him since he's been started playing again, only seen a couple of highlight reels.

If he were back to peak 2016 or 2019 form I'd not be wildly upset to see him start at 12.

I went to the Sarries game last week, he looked pretty decent.

Being realistic, it is likely he'll come straight back in. While he might not have made any difference in the 6N we didn't do much to show that we'd be better without him either. If he does come back, my wish list is that it's at 12, that Smith is allowed to call the shots and that it's not as captain.