Dove Men Challenge: Wales vs. Australia (3-12-11, 14:30 GMT)

[Darwin]

Would be nice. Come on Shane!!

Scott Andrews is my only real concern. A pretty meh scrummager who's only international experience is 18 minutes against the Barbarians. Unable to get close to displacing Tau Filise from the Cardiff team, which is a bit of a concern as much as I love the plasticine blob of a man that is Filise, he seems to be suffering from scrum-arthritis at the moment. (Since making his club debut in 2008, he has made just 21 starts, with only one in the Heineken Cup) Ma'afu is a better scrummager than him, and we could be going backwards, after just about having parity in the Bronze match. Hopefully Gatland will be prepared to haul him off after 45 if we're struggling. Got to have faifth, though!

And Dove is an appropriately soft brand for what could be the first match to make me cry. Don't go, Shane! Don't go!!

You know that you have real problems when you are worried about Australia's front-row :lol: Personally I wouldn't be overly worried about Ma'afu. He's a pretty poor scrummager himself; indeed the the bronze medal match against Wales was one of the few times I'd seen Ma'afu get parity with an opposition prop all season! I'm not sure whether Ma'afu will start at tight-head for Australia in any case - they may be inclined to start Slipper and Alexander (both of whom are capable on either side).

A pretty strong looking Wales starting side - it looks close to full strength with the exception of the tight-five, where they are missing 4/5 preferred starters. Luckily (for Wales) Australia don't have the tight-five to exploit Wales here. I really like the look of Lloyd Williams at halfback. Though Phillips had a very strong World Cup I can't help but feel Williams style of play suits Wales expansive game-plan far better than Phillips. It will be interesting to see how Scott Williams goes at centre against a quality opposition too. Obviously the bench is pretty green (with the exception of Jones and Rees), but I'm looking forward to seeing the likes of Cuthbert and Tipuric, who I've seen very little of.

Not sure when Australia are due to name their side, but I wouldn't expect too many changes from the team that beat the Barbarians in the weekend. The only changes are likely to occur in the pack, where McCalman may return (in place of Dennis), Horwill will start (preferably in place of Sharpe, but likely in place of Simmons), and Moore and/or Alexander may come into the front-row. Really not sure which way this game will go - I will wait until the Australian team is named before I make my prediction.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Mitchell at least starts regularly at club level and did decently during the 6N, how are the other two going to survive at international level when they are unproven even at Rabo Pro12 level?

how come Gatland selects Rhodri Jones when Rhys Thomas is the first choice tighthead for the Scarlets? yes I know that Thomas is poor, but he's surely starting ahead of Jones for a reason

One is an experienced prop whilst the other is begging to ply his trade ...

You bring up the Tongan for the Blues argument a little to often and Andrews has had a little ****le here and there. I am sorry but I do question a lot of members views on Andrews especially when given the game time he was pretty solid for the Blues. Infact Duck you said yourself he was not that bad this season. Andrews merits his chance at 3. Rhys Thomas is not good enough hence why Gatland has moved on from him ... suppose some would be happy with Cai Griffiths packing down at 3 for us.

As for Dull's comment on the scrum going backwards ... get a grip boy. Andrews will do a job.

 

[Draggs]

One is an experienced prop whilst the other is begging to ply his trade ...

You bring up the Tongan for the Blues argument a little to often and Andrews has had a little ****le here and there. I am sorry but I do question a lot of members views on Andrews especially when given the game time he was pretty solid for the Blues. Infact Duck you said yourself he was not that bad this season. Andrews merits his chance at 3. Rhys Thomas is not good enough hence why Gatland has moved on from him ... suppose some would be happy with Cai Griffiths packing down at 3 for us.

As for Dull's comment on the scrum going backwards ... get a grip boy. Andrews will do a job.

The Australians and Olyy, probably.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Aha, I hate Cai Griffiths I do


I'm looking forward to the midfield combination - JD does well for Scarlets but not convinced by him and Roberts for Wales, will be good to see Scott Williams and him get a decent amount of game time together this match - think they'll go well

 

[Draggs]

Aha, I hate Cai Griffiths I do


I'm looking forward to the midfield combination - JD does well for Scarlets but not convinced by him and Roberts for Wales, will be good to see Scott Williams and him get a decent amount of game time together this match - think they'll go well

I'm sure you'd like to see him pack down against Big Ted!

Agree about Foxy. I don't think it really does have to do with Roberts' style, as any centre would have plentiful ball available with the big lad lumbering around. I think much of it is simply that Foxy isn't at his level that he plays at for the Scarlets when he plays for Wales. He does seem to be improving and gaining in confidence. I yelled some terrible things when he didn't pass the ball v Ireland, but he knew what he was doing I suppose. I can't mention Welsh centres without bringing up Gavin Henson, so I hope to see him back soon. (Any bites?)

 

[ExcaLiBuR]

Australia will win this game easy. Sorry.

 

[DuncTheDoodle]

Australia will win this game easy. Sorry.

If you're going to beat us, at least let Shane have a few tries. 19 would be nice.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Who knows what will happen - if Aus play like they did against BaaBaas they'll get smashed


Almost definitely won't though

I'm most excited about finally seeing Warburton vs Pocock

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Wales face second-row injury crisis

Wales may have to find a new second-row combination after coach Warren Gatland revealed that Luke Charteris and Alun Wyn Jones could both miss the entire 2012 Six Nations.

http://www.espnscrum.com/wales/rugby/story/155245.html
​

 

[TRF_heineken]

I have to brutally honest but this match is a bit of a "meh, if there's nothing else on tv to watch, I'll switch over to the game"...

After the World Cup my tolerance to watch games of other nations play each other has now been depleted and the baabaas game didn't help the cause much either.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

15. Adam Ashley-Cooper (NSW Waratahs)
14. Lachie Turner (NSW Waratahs)
13. Rob Horne (NSW Waratahs)
12. Berrick Barnes (NSW Waratahs)
11. Digby Ioane (Queensland Reds)
10. James O’Connor (Melbourne Rebels)
9. Will Genia (Queensland Reds)
8. Ben McCalman (Western Force)
7. David Pocock (Western Force)
6. Scott Higginbotham (Queensland Reds)
5. Rob Simmons (Queensland Reds)
4. James Horwill (Queensland Reds, captain)
3. Salesi Ma’afu (Western Force)
2. Tatafu Polota Nau (NSW Waratahs)
1. James Slipper (Queensland Reds)
Run on Reserves:
16. Stephen Moore (Brumbies)
17. Ben Alexander (Brumbies)
18. Nathan Sharpe (Western Force)
19. Radike Samo (Queensland Reds)
20. Ben Lucas (Queensland Reds)
21. Ben Tapuai (Queensland Reds)
22. Anthony Fainga’a (Queensland Reds)

 

[Draggs]

Very good Australian backline. Plenty of pace throughout, will be very hard to stop.
I think they would be better off with Barnes 10, O'Connor 12, but we will be more likely to see JOC at 10 with the Rebels.
Tah's have a very nice backline available when Mitchell and Horne are fit, shame about losing Beale.
AAC doesn't look bad at fullback, but I still feel that he is a long-term 13. I'd like to see him alongside a playmaker at 12 such as Barnes or Giteau, possibly O'Connor in the future.

It would be a shame if the Wallabies lose Ioane to Japan, but they certainly have credible backups available. Turner seems to have hit some good form lately and will certainly cause some problems for our defence.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

but we will be more likely to see JOC at 10 with the Rebels.

Nope, he's said he wants to play at 12 for the Rebels, outside Cipriani


Strong looking Aussie side - bench backs not amazing (a scrumhalf and two inside centres - then again the ones of the pitch are all fairly versatile)

Can't wait for this match

 

[Draggs]

Nope, he's said he wants to play at 12 for the Rebels, outside Cipriani


Strong looking Aussie side - bench backs not amazing (a scrumhalf and two inside centres - then again the ones of the pitch are all fairly versatile)

Can't wait for this match

Why would the poor lad want to do that?? Gerrard or Sterlo will probably be outside of him, so you would lose the pace JOC brings midfield.
Yeah, Aussie bench is a little weak, but we have Knoyle and Biggar on the bench after all...

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I don't get where the Knoyle hate has come from? He's done well in a Wales shirt, from what I can remember

 

[DuncTheDoodle]

I love Tav. We have Biggar though, and him coming on basically equates to Gatland throwing the game.

 

[Draggs]

I don't get where the Knoyle hate has come from? He's done well in a Wales shirt, from what I can remember

Hate is not the term I would use. He just hasn't been great when playing for Wales. He looks out of his depth and like he is trying to imitate Phillips too much. I prefer Lloyd's style of play, and it will be interesting to see how he works with Priestland.

 

[Darwin]

Largely predictable looking Australian lineup. The only (slight) surprises for me are in the tight-forwards, where I expected Alexander over Slipper (or Ma'afu), Moore over Polota-Nau, and Sharpe over Simmons. I am really happy to see Simmons there, as the midfield would have been pretty crowded if both Sharpe and Higginbotham were starting Good to see Ben Lucas on the bench, as I think he could provide a much bigger impact than Nick Phipps, and he has the ability to cover numerous positions.

It will be interesting to see how the tight-five battle goes. I would normally just assume that Australia would be beaten up front, but given Wales are missing 4/5 of their first choice tight-five I'm not so sure now (especially considering some Welsh posters have questioned Andrews scrummaging ability). I'd probably give Wales a very slight edge in the front row (largely because I rate Jenkins very highly), but I think Australia has an edge with their locks. I like the Horwill/Simmons combination: it is not overly flashy, but they both do the basics very well, which is exactly what Australia need from their locks. I do rate Davies very highly, and I will interested to see how Evans goes. One question that I do have over Wales is their lineout. They generally had a very solid lineout during the RWC (apart from against France...), but they really only used two jumpers the whole tournament (Jones & Charteris). I'm just wondering whether they have any genuine options in the loose-forwards, as I don't think Davies and Evans are in the same league as Jones and Charteris as lineout jumpers. Are any of Lydiate, Warburton, or Faletau regularly used as lineout jumpers at club level?

I see Wales having quite a big advantage in the loose-forwards. One of the key matchups will be Warburton vs Pocock. Both were phenomenal at the RWC; If I had to pick one I'd still go for Pocock, but I don't think Warburton is far behind. I actually think Wales will have the edge at the breakdown though, as the likes of Jenkins, Faletau, and Lydiate are all very strong at the breakdown too, while Pocock is often left to fight a lone battle for Australia. I'm not a big fan of Australia's loose-trio. Higginbotham spends most of his time standing in the midfield/wing looking to put chip kicks through - it may be effective at Super Rugby level, but he needs to tighten up his game a lot if he wants to succeed at test level. I don't mind McCalman as he does the basics right, but he just seems to lack the power to be effective at test level.

Australia probably have the edge in the halves: I'm sure O'Connor will be tested a lot more this week though. I really like the look of the Williams/Priestland combination, but they are both still very inexperienced at test level. The midfield battle will be interesting. Wales obviously have a big advantage in terms of size, but Australia have a bit more creativity with Berrick Barnes there. I think the 10/12 channel is one area where Wales will look to attack as O'Connor and Barnes aren't an experienced combination there, and their lack of size means that that the likes of Roberts, Williams, and North should be able to make (or break) the advantage line even if they get tackled (which they probably will as O'Connor and Barnes are pretty reliable in defense). There are some interesting match-ups out wide, but I think they are pretty even matched.

Hard for me to pick a winner. I'm picking Wales by about 5 points, largely due to their home ground advantage.

 

[dullonien]

Ian Evans is probably the best lineout jumper in Wales. Although Charteris finally put his height to use during the WC, he's a front of the lineout jumper which isn't always great ball to use. Evans is generally used in the middle of the lineout, so hopefully he can prove his worth there. It's taken a long time for him to recover from almost 2 years on the sidelines with career threatening injuries, and he's still not back to anything close to his best, but hopefully he can do a job for us on Sat and possibly force his way back into the reckoning on a consistent basis. Evans brings a hard-nosed adge to proceedings which we have missed in the past, although Charteris certainly added some steel during the WC. Evans is by no means a naturally athletic guy, I think fitness is something he has to work very hard on, and this is probably one of the reasons isn't taken him so long to recover. He was Wales' best lock at the tail-end of '08, but has only just returned to regular regional rugby this season after getting injured against SA in the Autumn of that year.

Warburton is a very good lineout option at the tail, and was used there during the WC. Bradley Davies jumps at the front, so we do have three jumpers for all three positions starting on Sat. I'm not saying that things will go well, because there's alot to go wrong, but there is the core ingredients for a solid lineout there.

 

[Darwin]

Ian Evans is probably the best lineout jumper in Wales. Although Charteris finally put his height to use during the WC, he's a front of the lineout jumper which isn't always great ball to use. Evans is generally used in the middle of the lineout, so hopefully he can prove his worth there. It's taken a long time for him to recover from almost 2 years on the sidelines with career threatening injuries, and he's still not back to anything close to his best, but hopefully he can do a job for us on Sat and possibly force his way back into the reckoning on a consistent basis. Evans brings a hard-nosed adge to proceedings which we have missed in the past, although Charteris certainly added some steel during the WC. Evans is by no means a naturally athletic guy, I think fitness is something he has to work very hard on, and this is probably one of the reasons isn't taken him so long to recover. He was Wales' best lock at the tail-end of '08, but has only just returned to regular regional rugby this season after getting injured against SA in the Autumn of that year.

Warburton is a very good lineout option at the tail, and was used there during the WC. Bradley Davies jumps at the front, so we do have three jumpers for all three positions starting on Sat. I'm not saying that things will go well, because there's alot to go wrong, but there is the core ingredients for a solid lineout there.

Now you mention it, I do remember Evans being a pretty good lineout jumper. He's pretty tall if I remember correctly - not as big as Charteris, but probably taller than most other international locks. Been quite a few years since I've seen him play - I can hardly remember what he looks like!

I do remember Warburton being used occasionally during the RWC, but I don't think Wales used the ball to the back of the lineout anywhere near enough. I assumed it was because they lacked a genuine jumper at the back, but if Warburton is a quality jumper (as you suggest) I think they should be using that option far more often, as back of the lineout ball is the best lineout ball to attack from.