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Cricket Thread

India has never won a series in SA (I think they are just too spoilt with their own bat friendly pitches) and it doesn't look like they'll do anytime soon. We are developing nicely and I can see us remain a force post-Kallis and co. even in the smaller formats... 20/20 is a bit pointless though.

20/20 has been always a bit pointless for me. And the way we are now using that format to get the guys more involved in the ODI setup, is IMHO the right way to go about.

This Indian tour has been built up a lot in the media, and I think last night we proved that we will not take their empty threats without acting. Last night's performance was convincing. And once again showed that the Indian batsmen can't play bouncers. Their bowling attack was smashed out of the park, and when a ball is not spinning as much on the pitch, their spinners are useless.
 
I see de Kock scored his 3rd successive ODI century for South Africa - India really have no answer to him. He must be pretty close to being included in the test squad. Does anyone know how good his wicketkeeping is? Obviously if this is up to a good standard they may consider him as the test WK, allowing de Villiers to concentrate on his batting (though de Kock may well justify him place in the side as a specialist batsmen!). I find it hard to see the test series being anything but 2-0 to South Africa, from the little I saw of the ODI series the Indian pace attack didn't look the least bit threatening (in contrast to Steyn, Philander, Morkel etc).

Meanwhile New Zealand are dominating for a second test in a row against the West Indies. Trent Boult destroyed the West Indies this morning. We managed to snatch a draw from the jaws of victory in the 1st test, but hopefully we can convert a dominant position into a win in this match.
 
pretty awesome and dominant test from the black caps.

yeah the windies are missing a couple of stars but that should not take away from the win which ended up being an innings and 70 odd runs.

Boult was superb and the other bowlers all chipped in with key wickets, Southee in particular who should probably get the majority of the credit for the 2nd innings destruction.

Key really was boult and southee getting swing with the ball starting to age.

kinda frustrating seeing what the black caps CAN do, When southee is bowling well we should be able to take on anyone, but he seems to be a bit up and down. If anything he picks up the odd injury and takes a while to get back into the "swing" of things.

Wagner - I honestly think that Seamer spot should go to Bracewell Im not convinced with Wagner but the fact is he took a few key wickets in this match and did some good donkey work so he deserves credit for his part. But IMO his pace is down in a lot of his spells, he can bowl 140kph but lot of his spells are like 123-133kph, a LOT of balls in the 120's. Bracewell probably has a bit more consistent pace and hits the deck & bat harder. Wagner skids and so does boult & southee, Bracewell with his action just naturally hits the deck like a genuine "seamer" and would be better to add just a bit of variety plus a right hander would give a 2 & 2 left & right arm seam attack.

Taylor is in bloody good form and now up in the top 10 test batsmen in the world.

BJ watling and Williamson also showing their value as is Anderson, and I feel like I've been proved right again I always say a key for the black caps doing well is being able to hold the bat right down the order and Boult coming in at #11 and getting ~38* was key, the long batting order and low end contributions enabled the black caps to get the follow on and post a big score with lots of small contributions to add to Taylors big score. The traditional keys to NZ cricket success are smart bowling, brilliant fielding and a strong tail with the bat, guys batting at 6 or below 7 that can turn a game and do the job that the top order failed to do when needed.

IMO the big losers in these tests have been Peter Fulton and Hamish Rutherford. Jessie Ryder is poised for a return and Guptil scored 180 odd recently. Bringing these two back adds a sense of danger to the Black Caps batting lineup. I know Guptils test average is shocking recently but you can not doubt that he has the ability to do serious damage in any form of the game. And Jessie Ryder is just simply our most gifted batsman. Both are also brilliant fielders and would help improve this area overall.

I think a Black Caps team with ryder and guppy in for fulton and rutherford and Bracewell in for wagner would be a serious test for any team. even give the Indians a run when they arrive.

Though I still think its really important for Tom Latham and Hamish Ruthorford to devalop as long term options. I think we all want to see Adam Milne come on in the bowling department eventually.
 
Yep, a very dominant display by New Zealand. To be honest though the West Indies were woeful. Absolutely woeful. This obviously wasn't New Zealand's fault, and the way they have played they would probably have beaten this West Indies side even if they were playing at their best, but I do hope the West Indies show a bit more fight in the 3rd test.

It is a shame how far the West Indies bowling attack has declined. They were once an attack to be feared..... now they have Darren Sammy trundling in at first change bowling mid 120kphs (at most). Best has some fire, but has never been consistent enough for test level (as a test bowling average of almost 40 would suggest), while neither Cottrell or Gabriel impressed. Obviously they are missing Roach and Rampaul (who are both pretty handy), but there doesn't seem to be any depth what-so-ever. They do have a couple of spinners who can be handy in their home conditions (though I see Shillingford has been suspended again for chucking), but they are not going to win many away tests until they can develop some quality pace bowlers. The batting lineup has failed to fire this test series, but they do have a few proven performers (Bravo, Samuels, Chanderpaul etc).

Regarding the New Zealand side I agree the 3rd seamer position needs to be looked at. Wagner has some good points. He runs in hard all day, can swing the ball at times, bowls a good yorker, and can add some aggression to the attack. The problem is he doesn't really have a stock delivery. He tends to bowl 6 different balls every over, and struggles to build up pressure on batsmen. This is fine at domestic level (as he bowls enough good balls to get out domestic batsmen), but needs to develop a good stock delivery if he is going to succeed at test level. Unfortunately I don't think Bracewell is really any better at the moment. He was outstanding a couple of years ago when he lead us to victory against Australia in Hobart, but hasn't done anything since. He is still young (only 23), and has some talent, but his overall first class record so far isn't overly impressive (a bowling average of almost 36).

Unfortunately there aren't really any fast bowlers at provincial level screaming 'pick me!'. Gillespie has pace but is injury prone and inconsistent, Arnel is accurate but doesn't have enough pace (Bates is similar but a left armer), McClenaghan can't seem to transfer his limited overs form to the longer format, while we have a number of talented young bowlers who aren't ready yet (Milne, Henry, Wheeler, Duffy et al.). It is interesting to see Hamish Bennett back - I'm not sure he is good enough for test level but it is good to see him back and bowling pretty well.

Our lack of a quality test spinner is one of our biggest issues. It is not a big problem in New Zealand (as we don't have spinning pitches) - indeed I think we should be playing 4 pace bowlers (with Williamson providing spin if required) at home. In the subcontinent it is a big problem. Sodhi has some talent, but he is nowhere near ready for test level. I imagine the selectors will persist with him for some time though, as a quality leg spinner is something every side in he world dreams of. Vettori is back bowling now, so could be back at some stage, though he is really only a containing bowler at test level these days (which is still much better than any of our other spinners).

Our opening batsmen are (as usual) our main problem. Fulton and Rutherford aren't really good enough for test level. The problem is we don't have anyone better. Many have been tried in the last few years. Almost all have failed - Fulton and Rutherford have probably been as successful as any of them. Guptill is a superb limited overs opener, but his technique isn't good enough to open at test level. Personally I think he could have value at test level, but as a middle over batsmen rather than as an opener. Redmond is probably next in line in terms of openers, but is probably no better than Rutherford or Fulton. Tom Latham has some talent, but is still finding his role at domestic level (is he an opening batsmen, a middle order batsmen, or a wicketkeeper?). There is the option of playing McCullum at opener again, but he hasn't really performed to his potential as an opener (he actually has the technique to be a good test opener, he just lacks the temperament).

Ryder will certainly come into contention, but again he is another middle order batsmen - if he is included it would most likely be at the expense of Anderson (unless McCullum was used as an opener). I have to say I have been really happy with the performances of BJ Watling over the last year or so. His keeping is steadily improving, and he has added some real solidity to New Zealand's middle order.

Anyways... I hope we can continue our momentum and wrap up the series with another win in Hamilton. If we can we will go to India with some confidence - unfortunately I think we will find the tests over there a lot more difficult!
 
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Sodhi really impressed me, did a great job for his age and lack of experience, you would expect the indians to play him a lot better but IMO he seems good enough to not get completely taken apart so he should be persisted with and any experience he gets will be of great value. He can hold the bat as well. I also just dont expect Vettori to be back and if he does make it back he will play what? 1-2 tests then be out again? I think we should just consider the post Vettori Era started. I mean if he was going to make it back he would have made it by now, seems like forever.

when I watch Bennett bowl I keep thinking a random limb is going to fly off somewhere and he will completely break down. It just doesn't look like a bowling action that is going to have a long and fruitful career.

Milne seems so close! genine speed and pretty good control. Ive not see much of him recently but I feel like all he needs to do is tighten his line, aim at the top of off and rely on natural variance in the air and off the pitch and he will be a huge asset, I mean HUGE!

I honestly think the NZ coaches should be thinking: to get the black caps into the top half of the rankings again they need to make sure Milne reaches his potential
 
Sodhi really impressed me, did a great job for his age and lack of experience, you would expect the indians to play him a lot better but IMO he seems good enough to not get completely taken apart so he should be persisted with and any experience he gets will be of great value. He can hold the bat as well. I also just dont expect Vettori to be back and if he does make it back he will play what? 1-2 tests then be out again? I think we should just consider the post Vettori Era started. I mean if he was going to make it back he would have made it by now, seems like forever.

when I watch Bennett bowl I keep thinking a random limb is going to fly off somewhere and he will completely break down. It just doesn't look like a bowling action that is going to have a long and fruitful career.

Milne seems so close! genine speed and pretty good control. Ive not see much of him recently but I feel like all he needs to do is tighten his line, aim at the top of off and rely on natural variance in the air and off the pitch and he will be a huge asset, I mean HUGE!

I honestly think the NZ coaches should be thinking: to get the black caps into the top half of the rankings again they need to make sure Milne reaches his potential

I'm still not 100% convinced with Milne. He certainly has a few things going for him - most notably pace. However you need more than just raw pace to be successful at test level (just ask Mohammed Sami!). Milne doesn't seem to do a huge amount with the ball - he doesn't seem to get a lot of swing, and doesn't move it a lot off the pitch. Obviously these are things he could develop as his career progresses (assuming he stops getting himself injured), but at this stage of his career he is not even close to being ready for test cricket in my opinion. The likes of Ben Wheeler and Matt Henry are a similar age and have had more success on the domestic scene thus far. Obviously neither have the pace of Milne (but are quick enough), but both do a lot more with the ball in air. What Milne needs is a full season (or 2) of Plunket Shield cricket - he needs to prove he can take wickets regularly at this level before we should even consider including him in the test squad....

Sodhi has been good at test level... for a 21 year old leg spinner. However at first class bowling average of 53 does not suggest to me he should be playing test cricket. Indeed it doesn't even suggest he should be playing first class cricket. Yes he has a lot of promise, but I don't think test cricket is the right place to be learning your trade! I can see why the selectors have picked him, but at this stage he has certainly been picked based purely on promise. I kind-of agree with you point regarding Vettori, but if he was to get fully fit again (a big if) there is no reason why he couldn't play test cricket for a few more years. If this was the case I think he could still bring a lot of value to the New Zealand side. When we head to India at the start of new year we will need at least two spinners in the squad - I see no reason why Vettori should be one of them (especially as the next two spinners in line - Bruce Martin and Jeetan Patel - are almost the same age as Vettori, and are not even close to being in the same league as him).
 
for sure Milne is a diamond in the rough but at 21 with genuine pace and a good action he has more potential than the vast majority of bowlers that we produce. I think its really important he gets good coaching, if he develops physically and gets help to generate a bit more movement with the ball he should be able to make good impact at international level.
 
3rd NZ v WI test just started. West Indies have given up on the idea of pace bowling and have included two specialist spinners. The pitch (like any NZ pitch) is unlikely to suit spin, but NZ batsmen traditionally don't play spin very well. It does mean that the West Indies will have Darren Sammy opening the bowling from one end delivering 120 kph thunderbolts ;) New Zealand are unsurprisingly unchanged.

I see India have had a solid opening day against South Africa, posting 255-5. It has been pretty slow go 1/3 of what Kallis has alone for South Africa!).
 
Just looking at the scorecard every once in a while this morning it seemed the windies got off to a slow but solid start but now they are in the crap southee got 2 then anderson got 2 and they are 105/5

considering the WI tail have really struggled so far this series i'd say WI are in big doodie, WI top 4 added a combined 77 runs.
 
Just looking at the scorecard every once in a while this morning it seemed the windies got off to a slow but solid start but now they are in the crap southee got 2 then anderson got 2 and they are 105/5

considering the WI tail have really struggled so far this series i'd say WI are in big doodie, WI top 4 added a combined 77 runs.

Hmm...you may have called that a little too early ;-)

Great to see some fight from Chanderpaul and Ramdin, but I hope we are able to wrap up the innings early today (then put a decent total on the board).

The SA v India test is still evenly poised. I though SA were taking control after the Indian tail collapsed, but the Indian pace bowlers really stepped up. If it wasn't for Philander India would be well on top in this match...
 
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He may have had more style but he wasn't that much better than Dravid or Chanderpaul. Certainly not head and shoulders above. I remember Dravid coming here last time they played and scoring runs for fun whilst Tendulkar was toiling for a hundred, Chanderpaul has come here in swinging conditions many times and held up the West Indies from annihilation after Lara retired. Tendulkar averaged 53 to Dravid's 52. Kallis has better stats in all forms of the game than him as well and picks up wickets bowling of course.

There's an argument to say he was the best of the bunch, but it's debatable and not clear that he was the greatest as the media makes out with the likes of Lara, Ponting and Kallis, and there are others who are pretty close as well.

Seriously you think Kallis has better ODI stats then Tendulkar?
Thats not even funny

Tendulkar opened the batting for most of his career so didn't get that many not out's his average is still almost identical to Kallis's 44.83-44.86 (Kallis's average is dropping and will most likely end lower if he doesn't retire now)
Tendulkar scored 3 times as many 100's 49 vs 17, and he scored run's much quicker srate 86 vs 74. Tendulkar is leagues ahead of Kallis in ODI stats.

Tendulkar is the greatest ODI batsmen of all time bar none

Heineken you are also misleading people by saying Tendulkar scored all his runs in India which is false, his test home average 52.67 he averaged more away 54.74! He scored more run's and more hundreds away than at home.

He averaged over 45 in all continents so scored runs everywhere, he averaged 55 against Aussie the best attack of his generation
 
Not really sure what is happening in the world of cricket right now. India are completely on top against South Africa after their pace bowlers (yes their pace bowlers!) ran though the South African attack. India look a completely differnt side than the one that was hammered in the ODI series.

The NZ v WI test is evenly poised (though McCullums dismissal as I type probably shifts it into WI's favour). West Indies entered the match with a single fast bowler, but for the first time in years we seem to have produced a spinning pitch in New Zealand. Traditionally countries produce pitches to favour their side - we seem to have gone out of our way to produce a pitch that will favour the opposition! We normally struggle against spin too - we need someone (probably Taylor) to get a big score, otherwise we could well lose this test, and our complete dominance of the first two tests will count for nothing....
 
Cricket has been suspended. I refuse to admit it exists until England sort their sh*t out and start beating the Ozzies again :p

(oh dear! I just used my 500th post on a Cricket thread!)
 
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Cricket has been suspended. I refuse to admit it exists until England sort their sh*t out and start beating the Ozzies again :p

(oh dear! I just used my 500th post on a Cricket thread!)

Don't worry, I know how you feel. I remember when rugby didn't exist. For 20 years of my life rugby stopped existing for periods of 6 months at precisely 4 year intervals. Weird.
 
Don't worry, I know how you feel. I remember when rugby didn't exist. For 20 years of my life rugby stopped existing for periods of 6 months at precisely 4 year intervals. Weird.

Yeah, it's freaky how that happens. Football(Soccer) didn't exist in Cardiff until last year (although I heard it was around in 1952 and 1927 (I leave you to look up the reason why :p))
 
India are really on fire. Graeme smith his face was priceless after the 150 partnership
 
Wow, that South African v India test turned out to be a bit of an epic match! I'm sure at the start of the day South Africa would have been more than happy with the draw, but I'm sure now they will be slightly frustrated that they weren't able to get those final 8 runs and pull off an incredible win...

I was good to see that New Zealand managed to (easily in the end) beat West Indies to wrap up a 2-0 series win (which would have been 3-0 had we not lost the final session to rain in Dunedin). Yes, it is only the West Indies (and a very weak West Indies side at that), but in New Zealand we cherish any test victories, as these are usually few and far between!
 
what about these ODI's

been pretty crazy.

WI won the first with an epic innings from samuels after getting NZ out cheap and making the chase look very hard. NZ always seem to do well defending small totals.

2nd was a mind blower, a unique moment in international cricket history, the first and 5th fastest international tons in history set in the same 20 overs. WI blown off the park.

3rd was stopped from rain with NZ well ahead of the game after scoring 20-30 runs over par and rushing & smothering the initial WI run chase.

good to see NZ doing well, not long ago we lost something like 9 ODI's in a row? this team can beat anyone on their day, got some good personal and depth off the pitch looking at the world cup not too far off.
 
well that last ODI sucked.

NZ bowlers were simply epic fail. and I also think bowling first was a bad idead too. History is not always 100%, it looked a bat first pitch.

T20 series has been All the Balck Caps - three big standouts - Luke Ronchi obviously, Nathan McCallum and Adam Milne!

These last two games have been MASSIVE for Milne, hes bowled cheap and taken wickets. His accuracy has been good and hes had a good seam position and got subtle movement and produced some good slower balls.

And now hes included in the ODI squad for India and they obviously plan to use him. Of note is that he is also fielding really well.

I know its just two games but hes clearly moving in the right direction.
 
It was good to see us finish the West Indies series on a high, though if we weren't able to beat that (severely depleted) West Indies side I think there would have been some series questions asked!

Ronchi stepped up again - he has taken a while to look comfortable in the the Blackcaps, but looks like he could be a real asset in ODI and T20 cricket. The balance of the T20 side still doesn't seem right to me. I understand the need for allrounders in T20 cricket, but we are leaving ourselves short of bowling options. At the moment they are expecting Anderson to bowl 4 overs every match - while can do a job at times (e.g. the first T20) and other times (and against top opposition) he will go for a few. I think they need to include another specialist bowler at the expense probably Munro.

While I thought Milne was very impressive in both T20's I'm still worried about the hype surrounding this guy. Everyone seems completely obsessed with his pace. Every cricket headline read something along the lines of "Milne clocks 153km/h". His bowling figures seem secondary to the fact he is bowling fast (they weren't even mentioned in one article I read). Even the commentators seem preoccupied by his pace - instead of watching the deliveries they seem to just watch the speed-ball radar and get all excited when he hits 150km/h. Milne himself even seems a little preoccupied about his pace, stating one of his goals is to hit 160 km/h. Don't get me wrong, it is great that he is bowling fast, but you need to do more than just bowl fast to be successful in international cricket. There seems to be a big push to 'unleash him at test level', but I hope the selectors have a bit more sense. He has played a bit of first-class cricket so far this season and hasn't been overly effective, with 8 wicket in 4 matches at an average of 42. It was great to see him excel in the T20's, and it looks like he will get a crack in the ODI's against India, but I still want to see him playing more Plunket Shield cricket so he can learn how to take wickets in the longer form of the game.
 
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