[COVID-19] General Discussion

[Bada-Bing!]

Newspaper headlines: Mask laws 'to be axed', and 'Lions roar in Rome'

Sunday's papers look ahead to lockdown lifting in England on 19 July, and celebrate the football win.

www.bbc.co.uk

Well looks like the Govt. are just gonna wash their hands of it come 19 July. End compulsory mask wearing and no need to scan QR code entering shops, pubs etc. and drop social distancing.

Pretty much If you get it then it's your fault from 19 July, "we've done all we can with the vaccines" as long as you don't crash the NHS mentality dressed up as use your "common sense" approach.

COVID-19: Doctors call for 'targeted coronavirus prevention measures' to stay after 19 July

The BMA wants face masks in areas such as shops and public transport, and better messaging about the importance of ventilation.

news.sky.com

 

[Kiwiwomble]

TBH I still couldn't tell you what Covid looks like. Not sure if I have had it. Felt a bit crappy around Christmas but didn't need to go out then, so never got tested.

What was the guidance over there? even during our full lockdown we were advised to go get tested if we showed any signs so they could understand exactly how/where is was spreading?

 

[Reiser99]

What was the guidance over there? even during our full lockdown we were advised to go get tested if we showed any signs so they could understand exactly how/where is was spreading?

I'm sure that was the idea here, but our test and trace was such an abysmal failure that it didn't really help. Mostly it was hospital numbers and ONS calling people up I believe.

 

[McTallshort]

What was the guidance over there? even during our full lockdown we were advised to go get tested if we showed any signs so they could understand exactly how/where is was spreading?

Yeah same here. If you showed signs then you could leave home to get tested. Also Royal College London would send out kits for people to test themselves on. There was plenty of testing in the end but the response of that testing wasnt in my opinion acted on quickly enough. Christmas was a great example of everyone knowing a relaxation on rules was stupid given the cases/hospital numbers/deaths etc but the government went ahead anyway.

Getting the info is one thing, acting correctly on that info is another

 

[Bada-Bing!]

UK scientists caution that lifting of Covid rules is like building ‘variant factories’

Experts react with dismay to ‘frightening’ attitude of Sajid Javid towards removing protections

www.theguardian.com

 

[RedruthRFC]

Well looks like the Govt. are just gonna wash their hands of it come 19 July. End compulsory mask wearing and no need to scan QR code entering shops, pubs etc. and drop social distancing.

Pretty much If you get it then it's your fault from 19 July, "we've done all we can with the vaccines" as long as you don't crash the NHS mentality dressed up as use your "common sense" approach.

I'm at a loss to figure out what's wrong with Javid. Apparently he said in the Mail today (not the commons or a public briefing....the Mail) that this move will make the nation healthier, which makes me think that he's a Great Barrington rube. On the other hand, the speed with which this is happening makes me think that he was brought in as a yes man to do the bidding of those who have wanted to let it rip (or should that be RIP?) since day one. The really out there theory is that it's all part of operation "break the NHS so that we can justify privatizing it".

UK scientists caution that lifting of Covid rules is like building ‘variant factories’

Experts react with dismay to ‘frightening’ attitude of Sajid Javid towards removing protections

www.theguardian.com

This is one of the things (along with my other fave "killing people minimises economic damage") that I can't credit that anyone still needs explaining to them, this far down the line. That said, I have a feeling that I had to explain it to someone here a month or two back. It would serve us right if the rest of the world pulled up the drawbridge and refused entry to UK nationals.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

I'm at a loss to figure out what's wrong with Javid. Apparently he said in the Mail today (not the commons or a public briefing....the Mail) that this move will make the nation healthier, which makes me think that he's a Great Barrington rube. On the other hand, the speed with which this is happening makes me think that he was brought in as a yes man to do the bidding of those who have wanted to let it rip (or should that be RIP?) since day one. The really out there theory is that it's all part of operation "break the NHS so that we can justify privatizing it".

This is one of the things (along with my other fave "killing people minimises economic damage") that I can't credit that anyone still needs explaining to them, this far down the line. That said, I have a feeling that I had to explain it to someone here a month or two back. It would serve us right if the rest of the world pulled up the drawbridge and refused entry to UK nationals.

Horse **** post.

Javid has been consistent in his stance on lockdown so idk why you're surprised at all. It is also pretty clear now that Covid is waaaaay down now in the list of heath crises that the UK is facing (cancer treatment a huge on) that have been exacerbated by Covid.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

We only have to look at Israel to dispensed with mask wearing indoors only to reinstate the them after 10 days.

What is really going to change on 19 July? Cases rocketing, especially amongst the unvaccinated. And cases of long covid.

Coronavirus: Israel reimposes masks amid new virus fears

It comes just days after the last restriction was lifted, as concerns grow over a spate of cases.

www.google.co.uk

At least keep some restrictions like mask wearing until at least 70% have been double jabbed or one for J & J. I think we are at 50%.

Cases of hospitalisations are still increasing. From 200 cases to 358.

UKHSA data dashboard

Overall summary of the respiratory viruses in circulation within the UK

coronavirus.data.gov.uk

 

[RedruthRFC]

Horse **** post.

Javid has been consistent in his stance on lockdown so idk why you're surprised at all. It is also pretty clear now that Covid is waaaaay down now in the list of heath crises that the UK is facing (cancer treatment a huge on) that have been exacerbated by Covid.

It's interesting that you wouldn't consider that I might expect him to have changed his stance based on the avalanche of evidence from the medical and data science communities and based on other countries' experiences. I could sort of understand people thinking that the WHO / SAGE were being OTT initially, but it should be reasonable to assume that anyone who has sufficient intellect to hold public office would have seen the error of their ways after their misguided malaise / libertarianism twice caused unnecessary deaths, long covid and catastrophic economic damage.

I fail to see how allowing the NHS to become overrun with covid patients for a third time is going to do anything other than make its other problems worse. Has Barrington Javid explained who is going to foot the bill for treating the people who he's decided it's okay to give long covid to? No? Strikes me as another way of making it harder for the NHS to operate. What happens when we create another variant that's more transmissible / severe than Delta? Another avoidable lockdown and more economic damage?

Have you done any basic maths on this? It's really pretty simple to extrapolate the current case rate based on the current doubling rate and work out how long it will be before admissions are at a mid January rate based on the number of cases who will end up in hospital.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Politics trumps Covid science in Javid’s push to ‘live with the virus’

Experts are urging greater vaccination coverage and action over ventilation in public spaces before lifting restrictions

www.theguardian.com

 

[Which Tyler]

Politics trumps Covid science in Javid’s push to ‘live with the virus’

Experts are urging greater vaccination coverage and action over ventilation in public spaces before lifting restrictions

www.theguardian.com

But... but... but...
"Data not dates"
It was even a 3-word slogan - surely they'd never renege on a 3-word slogan - surely they have some classified data they can't share with us... or any university... or SAGE

 

[Which Tyler]

In other news...
Week ending June 18th (latest available) is the first week since week ending 5th March that we've recorded excess deaths compared to the 5-year average (bank holiday variations aside)

 

[Which Tyler]

 

[Which Tyler]

Apologies for 3 in a row.
I see Richard Graham (MP for Gloucester - where the case rate is more than twice the national) is delighted to see the end of the mask mandate; and repeats the ignorant line that "It will be personal choice; if you want to wear a mask, because that's what feels right for you, you still can" which completely ignores that wearing a mask is to protect other people, not yourself.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

I am back at the office tomorrow. In two minds to wear a mask. Taking a LFT tonight. Manager at work in our department's already failed a LFT test and ordered a PCR test to confirm. No idea if he caught it in the office. He's had both jabs as well, AZ plus more than 2 weeks Post second jab.

 

[ncurd]

Guys the Americans are taking the **** out of us.



Honestly it makes little difference to me like the previous stages but that's just luck and privilege more than anything else. I don't intend on going to any mass indoor events and the one outdoor one I'm going to is still asking for masks to be worn before the race start.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Chris Whitty suggests guidelines for use of masks after 19 July

England’s medical chief gives three situations in which it would be important to wear face covering

www.theguardian.com

Rules set to change for those who have been double jabbed as well according to BBC.

 

[General Melchett]

I am back at the office tomorrow. In two minds to wear a mask. Taking a LFT tonight. Manager at work in our department's already failed a LFT test and ordered a PCR test to confirm. No idea if he caught it in the office. He's had both jabs as well, AZ plus more than 2 weeks Post second jab.

I've heard of a few people who have been double jabbed but still tested positive recently (including one of the presenters on Talksport). Not sure if this means if the vaccines are less effective against the Delta variant which seems to be highly transmissible. I seem to recall reading that where the vaccines don't prevent transmission, they might cause symptoms be less severe.

 

[McTallshort]

I've heard of a few people who have been double jabbed but still tested positive recently (including one of the presenters on Talksport). Not sure if this means if the vaccines are less effective against the Delta variant which seems to be highly transmissible. I seem to recall reading that where the vaccines don't prevent transmission, they might cause symptoms be less severe.

Doesn't stop you catching it, it just reduces the effects of it

 

[Reiser99]

From what I've read, vaccines do reduce how easily it transmits, but it where they are better is by reducing serious illness that needs hospitalisation. This is why restrictions are ending because the Tories don't care if people catch it or get long covid (which needs urgent research to be far better understood). All they ever cared about was the NHS not being overwhelmed. So even if the delta variant is more transmissible they know it's not likely to result in huge hospital numbers. Danger is as some people have said, is that be ending restrictions with the delta variant moving around a vaccinated population, any mutation that is likely to succeed is one that avoids the vaccines in some way. The other issue is that it is still unknown how long the vaccines are effective for.