[COVID-19] General Discussion

[ncurd]

Also there is there is the simple fact that many young unvaccinated people don't have a choice. You can't go out because you can't have have a vaccine. That's not fair. Especially when I imagine many will actually be asked to work in places they then won't be allowed to visit as a customer as they haven't had the vaccine.

Yeah I imagine it would be a massive **** off in the hospitality sectors. Being told you have to work whilst simultaneously not allowed to enjoy those activities in your free time. If you want to galvanise strike action its one way to do it.

Wasn't it reported the other day the trial was basically a failure and government had quietly shelves the plans.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Three Word Soundbites
Not Government Policy

I absolutely detest the 3 word / 3 part soundbites. I've used public transport a lot and on the trains they always go "say it, see it, sort it" for anything suspicious. It's so contrived.

 

[Which Tyler]

Until everyone has been offered the jab(s) they shouldn't discriminate imo

Especially as vaccinated people can still get/pass on COVID to unvaccinated people without realising they ever had it due to the vaccine stopping it becoming symptomatic

Agreed 100% on the first point.
Vaccination though, seems to reduce transmission by 40-60%. So yes, the can still pass it on asymptomatically, but it also muchh reduced.

 

[duncanb]

I read on Twitter from a source of unknown reliability that hospitals are currently at the point that they were last September (when we weren't 17 days away from wilfully helping the virus to spread).

Are you still sure after the revelations re: Pfizer over the past 24 hours? At least it's only our most vulnerable groups who would have received their second dose more than 3 months ago! Seems like planning needs to be started to administer third doses right now.

Nuts that all the media seem interested in doing is sticking a camera in front of people too dumb to understand the risk they were taking by taking a foreign holiday in the current climate.

For me and my SIL who is nurse lead for vaccines in our health area.
Lead of NHS + Hancock and many others vaccines have broken link from cases to hospital admissions and it appears deaths .
I guess longterm we live with covid forget cases just look at admissions/ deaths.
As she says in winter hospitals are chocca with old folks with flu we except 20k deaths in year when vaccines aren't great.20k deaths are 55 deaths per day across a whole year.
We continue to track below average death rates at present probably due to deaths last year.
Covid and flu will harvest the vulnerable for years sadly
Government and us must come to an acceptable figure which is a hard thing to say and agree on.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

The way I understand it with Covid and the variants there are 2 main issues:

1. The transmissibility. The Delta variant is at around 40% more than the Alpha variant.

2. Severity of cases. Because we got hit badly with the Alpha variant and although hospitalisations are currently flat, We are just waiting on data for whether riding Delta cases translate to hospitalisations.

The Spectrum is:

Asymptomatic < mild symptoms< moderate < serious < severe (hospitalisation) < death!

Vaccines and restrictions have been. effective so far in drastically reducing severe/hospitalisations and in turn deaths.

The UK are now in the position where half of adults have received both doses. And half have not ie received 1 or none.

Peeps are against a vaccine passport or mechanism for showing showing a negative test because it discriminates against those who haven't had a dose yet or both, but nothing stopping them getting a LFT and logging negative test result (twice weekly needed?), as an alternative to vaccine and if need have a real time passport. Yes, LFTs not comfortable and needs to be done properly with PCRs, if positive. Also cost of PCRs.

21 June is not set in stone and doesn't need to be. Can push it back until at least 70% of adults received both doses and/or with restrictions such as social distancing/ face masks (not a huge sacrifice as far as I am concerned) WFH if you can.

Also with vaccine passports EU expected to have their digital certificate to allow travel between member states by end of June. But UK still ummimg and ahhing about using the NHS app for use in UK to get people back into events/open up economy and travel abroad?! And sticks with stupid Green/Amber/Red lists. Red list and Amber should be merged.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

1st jab booked

 

[Yulia]

And I'll have to change/postpone mine.. having a delayed quarantine after vacations (only 1 day of delay and I booked my jab for that exact day). Hope to change it at least for a 1-jab Johnson and Johnson

 

[Bada-Bing!]

The Times front page reporting that the 21 June lifting of restrictions could be delayed by 2 weeks to coincide with summer holidays and to get over 50s jabbed with their second dose.

 

[ncurd]

The Times front page reporting that the 21 June lifting of restrictions could be delayed by 2 weeks to coincide with summer holidays and to get over 50s jabbed with their second dose.

Shouldn't most over 50's be done before June 21st?

I think a delay was inevitable for the "no restrictions at all"

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

So our bank holiday was yesterday, I'd say I know at least 25 people who travelled north for it to enjoy open bars, restaurants etc... A reverse of what happened last summer when the south opened up earlier and an indictment on both Dail Eireann and Stormont for a continued lack of communication approaching this. What makes it worse is that bars opened up here for outdoor dining only yesterday despite a month of good weather and people drinking in parks and by canals and the like. (Myself included, I won't portray myself as some Saint here!) A lot of anti-social behaviour and littering (I didn't partake in this now) could have been avoided and businesses given the opportunity to recoup some of their losses by opening 2&4 weeks earlier and risk of spreading and people mixing would have been reduced also, shocking stuff.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Shouldn't most over 50's be done before June 21st?

I think a delay was inevitable for the "no restrictions at all"

All I know is all adults should be offered their first dose by 1 July. Whether all over 50s get their 2nd jab and turn up for it is another matter. I think as of yesterday around 53% of all adults have had both doses. Still, a large section of 18 and above not yet fully vaccinated Even if over 50s do get both jabs by 21 June. Plus you've got to factor in the two weeks post second jab for the antibodies in the immune system to be at their optimum.

Yes, I think the lifting of all restrictions on 21 June was always pretty silly.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Coinciding with summer holidays makes sense,
They should just confirm it now rather than umming and ahing until a rush announcement the night before

 

[Which Tyler]

All I know is all adults should be offered their first dose by 1 July. Whether all over 50s get their 2nd jab and turn up for it is another matter. I think as of yesterday around 53% of all adults have had both doses. Still, a large section of 18 and above not yet fully vaccinated Even if over 50s do get both jabs by 21 June. Plus you've got to factor in the two weeks post second jab for the antibodies in the immune system to be at their optimum.

Yes, I think the lifting of all restrictions on 21 June was always pretty silly.

Quite honestly, 1 dose + 6 weeks gives such good protection already (Circa 75% depending on which variant you're measuring it against), I'm happy with not waiting for everyone to be 2 doses + 2 weeks.

21st June was always stupid, and should never have had a date put on it. Quite honestly, 12th May was also a bit stupid, and should have been delayed a week or two to see what the Delta variant was doing (as Sage requested at the time), rather than ease-and-be-damned. Definitive proof (as if there was ever any doubt) that it was about dates, not data.

 

[Yoshimitsu]

I'd hypothesize it's more likely to see what effect vaccinating has on the link between cases and deaths through whatever variant. Infections in the NW (U.K) are growing exponentially, if I had to punt on the next "problem" area it'll be Reading in the SE.

The fact that the most vulnerable are already double jabbed will either show:

1) The vaccines do indeed sufficiently suppress death / hospitalisation rates in the vulnerable cohort (and others (vaccinated or not) aren't made sufficiently ill to significantly increase pressure on the NHS) and thus the link between "cases" and NHS pressure becomes less important and we can unlock regardless of numbers of cases. Note. people will still get ill and die in some numbers should this path be followed. The number needs to be politically acceptable.
2) They don't or there's sufficient folk (vulnerable / non vaccinated) left that will become infected, get very ill and die and the NHS won't cope and then there appear to be two further choices

Lock down to suppress infection rates - Will the public wear that?
Increase vaccination rates (if the data shows that vaccinations diminish the chance of hospitalisations / deaths in all cohorts) Will the public wear that?

Worst case scenario is the early emergence of a vaccine escape variant. Then all the work done to date may be of little use.

Despite some positive sounds from politicians, this is far from over. The lack of a sterilising vaccine means that this virus will persist and mutate. Selective pressure to mutate in an imperfectly vaccinated population may go in ways we don't want it to but evolution makes more likely. That being to resist / avoid vaccine protection.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Yes, I think the issue is how far along the spectrum is the public willing to accept with this virus, when we do come out of lockdown. Ok to get mild/moderate symptoms? Not ok to get serious or severe (hospitalisations). Assuming the vaccines at least hold up on stopping the serious/severe cases. But again we have no control over. Until booster jabs are ready and even then we will need annual ones to keep with the variants.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57404223

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Anyone know how Hungary implemented such an effective vaccination program? They've got a full stadium against us in the soccer here and have similar percentages to the UK. Impressive going for an EU MS.

 

[McTallshort]

Anyone know how Hungary implemented such an effective vaccination program? They've got a full stadium against us in the soccer here and have similar percentages to the UK. Impressive going for an EU MS.

Russian vaccinations

 

[TRF_heineken]

So I just had COVID-19. Came out of self-isolation this morning. Myself, my wife, my dad, mom, brother and sister-in-law all tested positive last week Monday. Can honestly say, it's one of the worst experiences I've ever had.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

So I just had COVID-19. Came out of self-isolation this morning. Myself, my wife, my dad, mom, brother and sister-in-law all tested positive last week Monday. Can honestly say, it's one of the worst experiences I've ever had.

damn, how you all feeling now? glad to see you're at least well enough to get on line

do you only have to quarantine for 10 days? in aus there has been talk of making it longer than 2 weeks because so many of our hotel quarantines have tested negative at two weeks but still gone on to infect people