Cockerill has it bang on...

[Which Tyler]

Aside from the cost to the teams of doing it of course.

You think the teams pay for their shirts?
On the other hand, they do get paid for selling shirts, and paid more for selling shirts with player's names on.

Surely you don't believe it makes the game more "accessible"?

What the...?
In what possible world does making knowledge of what's happening on the pitch more easily accessible NOT make the game more accessible?

 

[BrokenWing]

That's such a stupid statement. Especially when you are just watching teams you don't know that well.

Not really, you're going to be watching on tv and how often do you get a clear view of the name that the commentator has mentioned several times, not to mention it being mentioned in the line ups at the start, or more readily available online.

I don't have an issue with the names being on the shirts, I'd rather that than the sponsorship that's plastered all over them but I understand the financial reason for it. I suspect the primary reason for the names is kids now will want a shirt with the name of their favourite player on.

Some people on here need to dial back the immediate reaction of calling other people stupid.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Not really, you're going to be watching on tv and how often do you get a clear view of the name that the commentator has mentioned several times, not to mention it being mentioned in the line ups at the start, or more readily available online.

I don't have an issue with the names being on the shirts, I'd rather that than the sponsorship that's plastered all over them but I understand the financial reason for it. I suspect the primary reason for the names is kids now will want a shirt with the name of their favourite player on.

Some people on here need to dial back the immediate reaction of calling other people stupid.

I didn't call you stupid. I said it's a stupid statement and what you said is,

'If you need names on shirts you are doing something wrong'.

Yeah that's stupid. There are people who are hrs of hearing, kids who want to know who players are and me, I know most premiership players but when I watch teams I don't know it's nice to see who is who. It makes the game more accessible rather than having to check your phone to see the lineup.

 

[BrokenWing]

Yeah… I'm not even sure what point to was trying to make tbh. Yesterday was a bad day.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Yeah… I'm not even sure what point to was trying to make tbh. Yesterday was a bad day.

No worries, one more sleep until some great euro semis to keep us all entertained.

 

[Which Tyler]

Yeah… I'm not even sure what point to was trying to make tbh. Yesterday was a bad day.

Happens to the best of us.
I know - my wife tells me it's even happened to her once or twice - and she is by far the best of us.
She also sometimes reads my posts on the shared computer

 

[stus768]

Re Cockerils comments on entertainment.

Everyone sit back and consider their most memorable games, and moments from the last 30 years...

This recent RWC come to mind? How about last seasons Premiership semis? The URC opening round 2022? The champions cup final of Leinster v La Rochelle?

No, thought not.

Anyone consider the current England squad as containing more stars than the 2011 squad?

No, thought not.

So why is rugby, as it develops into a more professional, safe, and 'inclusive' sport losing audience, participants and become more and more forgettable?

I mean the previous World Cup had some of the best games ever.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I mean the previous World Cup had some of the best games ever.

Genuinely think the Paris quarter finals / de fact semis were the two highest quality games of rugby ever played.

Too bad I'll never rewatch them because of the pain.

 

[TommiG88]

Genuinely think the Paris quarter finals / de fact semis were the two highest quality games of rugby ever played.

Too bad I'll never rewatch them because of the pain.

I've rewatched Ireland NZ multiple times

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I've rewatched Ireland NZ multiple times

View attachment 19759

Couldn't do it.

The 2011 Heineken Cup final is currently on in my living room however.

 

[TommiG88]

Couldn't do it.

The 2011 Heineken Cup final is currently on in my living room however.

I haven't watched that back

 

[dirty harry]

From the 2011 England squad take out the 2003 players and and players still playing. Joe Public wouldn't have a clue but they can probably name more of the 2019 England team. It also depends on your definition of stars.

Six nations and Rwc tv audiences are increasing. Places like Japan holding a world cup. Womens rugby considerably improving.

Society and values change. Less played in state schools, parents concerns over safety. What's the other option make it less safe and inclusive. Go back to the so called good old days where Manu can batter Ashton in a derby game. Buck Shelford can play with one ball and not one with Gilbert on it.

This all makes sense, parents becoming more careful, less state schools playing etc...

Except, by every metric less safe combat sports trends are going the opposite way. Participation and audience for MMA has exploded, and they dont have the luxury of school introduction or tradition.

Where rugby participation dwindles, MMA clubs are opening at a high rate, last year 5500 people per month were joining. And that's with no real route to professionalism, or academy systems, it's all pay to play.

So if society's values change, why is violent sports leaning into the violence exuding, while a gladiatorial sport leaning away from it dwindling. Let's look at Englands participation, down 20% for rugby over the last 6 years or so to under 200k this year, while combat sports have incredible similar amount to around 1 million (to my best of knowledge).
Not a direct comparison, but 4 x the number of people are choosing combat sports of over rugby, and the trend shows it's only getting worse for rugby.

 

[dirty harry]

I mean the previous World Cup had some of the best games ever.

I have to disagree with this, the last world cup was very forgettable IMHO. I did like the more fair format, but of 10 RWC that was Frances 3rd? Meh.

NZ v Ireland and SA v France maybe get near my top 10, but ultimately I wont pay them much mind in the longer term, Japan, Wales, France, England, NZ, SA, Aus have all been involved in classics before those IMHO.

 

[dirty harry]

Genuinely think the Paris quarter finals / de fact semis were the two highest quality games of rugby ever played.

Too bad I'll never rewatch them because of the pain.

I think that's emotion talking, I've researched both and granted they were good games, but SA v France was a bit drab, and NZ nullified Ireland. I'd argue Portugal v Fiji was a much more entertaining game

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I think that's emotion talking, I've researched both and granted they were good games, but SA v France was a bit drab, and NZ nullified Ireland. I'd argue Portugal v Fiji was a much more entertaining game

that's just being contrarian for the sake of it now!

 

[Yulia]

Genuinely think the Paris quarter finals / de fact semis were the two highest quality games of rugby ever played.

Too bad I'll never rewatch them because of the pain.

True. Was even watching it with someone who didn't watch rugby before,and the person was incredibly impressed. Top games, I loved that RWC

 

[dirty harry]

that's just being contrarian for the sake of it now!

Rewatched sorry, this bloody old phone.

But no, they were decent games, but Ireland werent at 100% and IMHO it was a bit of an anti climax.

SA France was decent, and I feel for France, SA were just given carte blanche at the breakdown last few minutes, as they were against England.

I would argue the Fiji Potugal game wasnt quite the same quality but a better spectacle.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I do agree that the premiership has lost it's bite.
It's a more competitive league and more entertaining.
But I can't really remeber the last proper nasty feeling game, I do miss it.
That feeling of like oh **** someone is gonna get a punch soon.

It sort of reminds me a lot more of super rugby. Not a bad thing. But even the two semi finalist in Europe didn't get into the finals due to their bite.
Overall I think international rugby has the bite, but the last few seasons in the prem the bite has gone anyone who says otherwise is kidding themselves.

That being said Tigers U24 team beat a very experianced Black lions team with Kirean Wilkinson getting a motm display.

 

[dirty harry]

I do agree that the premiership has lost it's bite.
It's a more competitive league and more entertaining.
But I can't really remeber the last proper nasty feeling game, I do miss it.
That feeling of like oh **** someone is gonna get a punch soon.

It sort of reminds me a lot more of super rugby. Not a bad thing. But even the two semi finalist in Europe didn't get into the finals due to their bite.
Overall I think international rugby has the bite, but the last few seasons in the prem the bite has gone anyone who says otherwise is kidding themselves.

That being said Tigers U24 team beat a very experianced Black lions team with Kirean Wilkinson getting a motm display.

I think this is part of Cockers point...

The passion and fight has been tamed out of teams.

 

[IT157]

Re Cockerils comments on entertainment.

Everyone sit back and consider their most memorable games, and moments from the last 30 years...

This recent RWC come to mind? How about last seasons Premiership semis? The URC opening round 2022? The champions cup final of Leinster v La Rochelle?

No, thought not.

Anyone consider the current England squad as containing more stars than the 2011 squad?

No, thought not.

So why is rugby, as it develops into a more professional, safe, and 'inclusive' sport losing audience, participants and become more and more forgettable?

Exeter vs. Harlequins Premiership final in 2020/21.

South Africa vs. France quarter final at the last World Cup (2023).

Two of the best rugby matches I've watched since 91 (when I saw my first rugby game).