CJ Stander to retire at the end of the season

[munstermuffin]

This is too quiet.


I understand, but i hope you also understand how this comes across.
Some, if not many here, have argued countless times about how Irish he was/felt. The fact remains he move to Ireland when he couldn't make it to the Springboks and he goes back to RSA when he stops playing rugby. Sugarcoat it the way you want. Family or not, farm or not.
It looks bad.
If i were to cherry-pick one example of how the system 'failed', it would be his. He couldn't give a flying turd about Ireland before he wasn't selected for RSA and the minute he stops playing he wants to go back? To be with is family and raise his kids? If that is not what 'home' stands for i don't know what is. Having a home, being eligible to play for that place and playing for another doesn't sound right. I know here is probably where we disagree.
'Would you rather sit out and play for no national team then? ' Yes, absolutely.


Let me be clear about this: this is not a jab at him, but at the system that allows him to do this.
"Dont hate the player, hate the game". I this aspect, i hate the game. Just using his example to elaborate on why.
I actually like him quite a bit. Despite his achievements i still think he is underrated. Monster of a player and every single time I've heard him talk he came across as a reasonable, passionate and humorous guy.

No I understand your mentality on all this.

Bit it is more a case of CJ what he gave to Limerick off the field, how he bought in to living here, how he would have possibly stayed only for some personal choices. Remember and it has been well documented Jean Marie was told at 1 stage chances of kids were non existent. Life event change us and sometimes you can't plan for certain things

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Limerick aint Ireland. My issue is with him playing for Ireland, not for Munster. Players choose and should be able to choose the club they want to play for.

Remember and it has been well documented Jean Marie was told at 1 stage chances of kids were non existent. Life event change us and sometimes you can't plan for certain things

So if they knew they could have kids they wouldn't have moved to Ireland?
That's arguably worse.

 

[big ginger 8]

There's been a million threads about the rights and wrongs of project players does this really need to turn into another?

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Aye, the rules have changed since Stander qualified too. Quite literally a redundant conversation here.

 

[will311293]

Can i ask, do we think it's likely he might have a change of heart once over there and like Brits suddenly start playing again?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Or Goosen...

I imagine his intentions are legit - but I think professional sportsmen will always have the competitive itch.
Bryn Evans retired to go and run his families farm in NZ, few months later his old coach asked him if he fancied a run out in the ITM cup and one thing led to another and he's playing Super Rugby now.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Stander in, at least, the Currie Cup in a years time

 

[big ginger 8]

Can i ask, do we think it's likely he might have a change of heart once over there and like Brits suddenly start playing again?

Apparently George is a few hundred km away from the nearest city with a SR/ProX club but there is a local side that plays in a division of the Curry Cup.

He's out of contract so not like he couldn't have just gone to another side but stranger things have happened.

 

[will311293]

Yeah only South Western Districts Rugby (Currie Cup/Vodacom Cup) play there. who knows.

 

[Groundhog]

He has no reason to fake a retirement to avoid or wait out a contract to be fair. I think he's just done at least for the time being. More power to him if he cha he's his mind in the future. Anything can happen in sport and I think competing is very addictive especially for a guy as good as Stander.

 

[munstermuffin]

Anyone that knows CJ knows he's genuine. Can't see him lying on retirement.

Also should add my comments on kids was more life changes and plans do too but he came to Ireland with genuine amd sincere intentions. He's here nearly 10years

 

[TRF_heineken]

Well, I guess this proves all those who said that he'll never return to SA wrong.

I was one of the few who said that he will return after his playing days are done, and I was blasted for my comments. But I am a bit shocked about this early retirement. Unless he's going to do the same as Johan Goosen, and return to rugby a year later at some stage, maybe for the WP or EP?

 

[munstermuffin]

Well, I guess this proves all those who said that he'll never return to SA wrong.

I was one of the few who said that he will return after his playing days are done, and I was blasted for my comments. But I am a bit shocked about this early retirement. Unless he's going to do the same as Johan Goosen, and return to rugby a year later at some stage, maybe for the WP or EP?

To be fair the travel restrictions forced his hand. Remember he still owns a house (not renting) in Limerick and is not putting it up for sale.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

It does make a mockery of him pretending to be and feel Irish when he returns 'home' to SA.

 

[munstermuffin]

It does make a mockery of him pretending to be and feel Irish when he returns 'home' to SA.

Can I ask a question without being I suppose to invasive. If you lived in a place for 10 years but wanted to return home cloaer to parents etc for sincere personal reasons. Sacrificing your career and well other things too. Would you say that is pretending.

Like CJ never pretended anything and alot (myself included) are commenting on something that noone knows the full story of.

Like is Ronan O 'Gars a fraud of an Irishma too as he said openly he doesn't want to live permanently in Ireland. Or Shane Horgan as he wanted to do Law in UK and not Ireland post rugby?

 

[TRF_heineken]

Is he giving up his Irish citizenship when he returns to SA??

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Is he giving up his Irish citizenship when he returns to SA??

Doubt it. Both countries allow dual citizenship. The family will definitely benefit from an EU passport.

 

[munstermuffin]

Is he giving up his Irish citizenship when he returns to SA??

No but as I said he remains a property owner also and is I'm sure planning to return occasionally over the next few years.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Can I ask a question without being I suppose to invasive. If you lived in a place for 10 years but wanted to return home cloaer to parents etc for sincere personal reasons. Sacrificing your career and well other things too. Would you say that is pretending.

Like CJ never pretended anything and alot (myself included) are commenting on something that noone knows the full story of.

Like is Ronan O 'Gars a fraud of an Irishma too as he said openly he doesn't want to live permanently in Ireland. Or Shane Horgan as he wanted to do Law in UK and not Ireland post rugby?

He grew up dreaming of playing for SA, moved to Ireland, played for Ireland and then moved back home to SA. That's all I see, there's lots of 'English' players that have done this as well which equally annoy me.

In my head it's greed for international rugby and money with a lack of integrity.

As I've asked before to many on here, would you play for another country? I'd rather not play at all than represent a different county.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I have far more time for CJ playing for us than Billy Burns. He was 22 when he moved to the other side of the world to a country where he didn't speak the language. Lived here for 8 years, became a citizen, was active in the community and gave everything he had when called upon to play for Ireland. He's just a product of the world we live in, and I can't imagine he's the first South African to live abroad build an affinity with another country and move home when he's needed on the family farm/business*, it's just the world we live in.

The idea that international rugby is like some medieval war where who you fight for is based solely on where you were born is a bit daft to me. If someone is offered better opportunities elsewhere in any other career no one begrudges them for taking them except in sport. The argument of growing up wanting to play for X is also a pretty bad one in my eyes, most people don't choose what career they want to follow until their late teens or early 20s and they fail along the way, it doesn't make them lack integrity. Professional rugby is only a job, international rugby is the highest grade and to qualify you need to have been a resident for 5 years (formerly 3) if you do that as a young adult facing scrutiny from press all over the world you've earned the right in my opinion.

I'd have no problem playing for most other countries to be honest, probably not Wales, England or Scotland but if the rest valued me more and provided a better quality of life than Ireland I would jump at the opportunity. It's a job that will make your future quality of life worse, you'd be mad not to max out if you felt underappreciated at home.

Ultimately I think world rugby should be giving players as much opportunity as possible to maximise earning potential and in a sport where T1 international rugby adds serious value I think the balance is fairly good at the moment and players shouldn't be criticised for looking after themselves.

*Not that this is definitely the case but there could have been so many reasons to take this on that changed his mind about staying in Ireland or not, muff alluded to the virus, a brother who was meant to take over could have become incapacitated etc... We don't know. Not that it matters, if you ever watched the man play or listened to him speak you'd know he gave everything to the Irish jersey and I reckon he'll have a lighter green jersey on watching his successor, Caelan Doris, manhandle the boks in the RWC!

 

[munstermuffin]

To alao be clear CJ didn't come to play for Ireland. That was just an added bonus. He came to pay for Munster. Wasn't targetted by IRFU