Chiefs v Crusaders

[TRF_Olyy]

Crusaders were ****...SBW has probably singlehandedly lost me this Fantasy round with all his knock-ons...

I bought him this week....

 

[Charles]

I bought him this week....

You're gonna sell him next week and he'll have a blinder...*Sigh*

 

[lucky number 7]

You're gonna sell him next week and he'll have a blinder...*Sigh*

Murphy's Law

 

[d1e1m]

To be fair, SBW wasn't alone in making bad decisions, even Fruean was making some shocking errors with his attempted offloads. As a Crusaders fan, I'm happy they won ugly. If I were a Chiefs fan, I'd be mad they couldn't even get a losing BP against a Crusaders side that was obviously not playing well at all.

PS: The Crusaders scrum, even without Crockett at the beginning, is just absolutely monstering most packs.

 

[Sneaki]

If the Chiefs can get some decent ball out wide i think they'll be in with a chance... But with Sweeney in the centers i can't see that happening too often... Crusaders 34 - Chiefs - 12

Pretty good guess!! 34-16 final score!

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

I had 16-40 in the prediction game. I even predicted the number of tries correctly of both teams. Just the 2 penalties I needed from the Saders to have a perfect prediction haha

 

[Sam Owen]

Crusaders were ****...SBW has probably singlehandedly lost me this Fantasy round with all his knock-ons...

Ahhh Sonny's finally had a bad game has he?...I havent seen the game yet. I was confident the 'saders would win but Im definately looking forward to watching the replay as it sounds like a good game and I want to see what made Sonny play not so good.

The Crusaders aye....hmm....

 

[Larksea]

was a good game to watch though the scoreling didn't reflect the close nature of the game, in the end it was scrum and lineout dominance (lineouts in particular) and the crusaders successful kicking tactics against Masanga which saw them come out on top. Add in a couple of trys against the run of play, one off a **** poor Delany pass which maitland scooted away with. Though the dominance the crusaders had in the tight 5 was always going to make it hard for the chiefs a few players really stood up and they will at least be happy that they are the only team to really threaten the crusaders since round 1.

Leonard was brilliant, I doubt many people would rate him below kahn fotuali'i now. When he left the field he had thrown something like 68 passes and I only saw one bad one, the rest were good quality and speed considering the ruck area was a mess at times and I dont think it was coincidence that the Chiefs lost their way on attack and the crusaders came back at them after leonard went off. Also his kicking has been spot on this season, I dont think he's made a bad kick and he's come up with some pretty special ones.

Messam was also brilliant, he was in everything. I think it would be interesting to go over the comentary and count how many times they said Messam's name, no wonder Flynn rucked him in the face because he really was a thorn in the cursaders side at the breakdown & contact and he made a lot of important tackles.

Importantly Sweeny had a better showing though he did miss a couple of critical tackles, one bad miss which lead to Elis's try but for the most part he and Delany did a good job of looking after Sonny Bill.

But the one who really took the cake for the chiefs was Kahui. All the talk before the game was about Sonny Bill and Fruen but on the day even in a losing side Kahui will be the one with the big tick beside his hame in Henry & Smith's book. He didn't get the ball much but when he did he looked very threatening and made good ground. And on defence calm and composed when he needed to be and totally brutal when he had the chance and he really shone on a day that everyone thought would belong to Sonny & Fruen. And he showed again that great abilty of his to "flick the switch" and take his game to another level which is why he's been so great for the AB's.

Key players for the crusaders IMO were obviously the tight 5, the franks brothers in particular who have been in such great shape all season. I hate cory Flynn but he had a very strong game, with hore not at his best it pains me to say it but Flynn will be very likely to take that 3rd hookers role right now for the AB's. I dont know what the hell happened with he and Messam but it looked like Flynn attacked Messam's face with his sprigs when they were both on the ground and Messam retaliated.

Outside the tight 5 Matt Todd was a menace and often stopped the chiefs roll at critical times.

the key performance in the backs was that of Zac Guildford and his match up with Masanga. Guildfords accuracy and huge workrate easily won the day against the x-factor Flash has. masanga hasn't been bad at recieving kicks or on defence recently but he was totally exposed against the crusaders kicking game and made far too many mistakes, shame but his performance with the All Black coaches watching will have all but ruled him out of contention for the world cup even if he was only an outside chance.

matt berquist also did a good job as fill in, the chiefs backline hasn't been as organised or threatening with Delany filling in for donald but the crusaders backine has been in good hands with berquist holding position for Carter.

chiefs fly out to SA now and off the back of that performace they should be looking to take the points against the Lions and they should really threaten the Bulls as well. And if they can beat the bulls... Though they playoff hopes are slim it will help the highlanders & Blues chances big time.

 

[Darwin]

A bit of a messy game, with the basic errors (from both sides) making it a frustrating game to watch. Overall I think the Crusaders deserved the win, but the scoreline perhaps flattered the Crusaders slightly. The Crusaders tight-five dominated for much of the game, this was probably helped by the fact the Crusaders locks were doing there job in the tight, rather than running round in midfield as the Chiefs pair seemed to do.

Both Franks brothers looked good, as did Corey Flynn, with the Crusaders lineout functioning well, and Flynn making a good contribution around the field. I though Todd was again the standout loose-forward, winning his battle with Scott Waldrom (though Waldrom did have a pretty good game). Fotuali'i was quiet, but Ellis was outstanding when he came onto the field, looking very dangerous from he base of the ruck. Berquist was solid, and kicked well for goal, but both SBW and Fruean made a number of errors trying to force passes with the slippery ball. I agree with Larksea, Guildford was probably the standout wing, he did the basics well, always looked composed, and also looked dangerous with the ball in hand. Maitland had a pretty good game, showing his pace in scoring his try, while Dagg had another mixed game- breaking the line seemingly at will a couple of times, but again making a few basic errors.

For the Chiefs both Toby Smith and Ben Afeaki stood out in open play, but were destroyed in the scrum. I haven't been overly impressed with Hika Elliot since his return from injury, as he's been making a few errors around the field and his lineout throwing has been poor - I wonder whether the will give de Malmanche a start in the next game. Messem and Scott Waldrom had good games, but the standout Chiefs loosie to me was Fritz Lee. Lee always seemed to make metres off the retreating Chiefs scrum, broke a number of tackles in open play, and was solid in defense - I'd like to see him continue at 8 for the next few Chiefs games (with Messem and Waldrom on the flanks).

Wasn't overly impressed with Leonard, as I felt his delivery was slow, though he was dealing with pretty poor ball at times. Was disappointed with Delany again, as he continues to make a number of basic errors. I honestly thought he would be a contender for the RWC squad this year, but his average general play and poor goal-kicking will mean he's not going to be a contender. Sweeney was solid at 12, along with Kahui he rushed up well on defense, though he did miss a couple tackles. Again I agree with Larksea that Kahui was probably the most impressive mid-field back on display. Masaga was a bit exposed, while Sivivatu looked solid in defense, but lacked any spark with the ball in hand. Worryinly he seems to have lost his pace. Muliaina looked solid at the back (though did miss a difficult tackle on Maitland), and did make some half-breaks on attack.

 

[Charles]

Personally I was not impressed with the Saders tight five...Way too many turnovers conceded. Also I never thought I'd say this but the Saders gained shape and much more structured play when Ellis came on.

 

[smartcooky]

On that last play Kahui kicked it to just before the 22, Guildford picked it up and got tackled back into the 22, ruck forms and the Crusaders kick it out on the full. Shouldnt that have been a lineout from where Berquist kicked it?

Nope. If the ball is carried back, and then a ruck forms, the carried back has "expired". Same applies to a tackle after the ball is carried back

[textarea]LAW 19.1 THROW-IN
NO GAIN IN GROUND

(b) When a team causes the ball to be put into their own 22. When a defending player plays the ball from outside the 22 and it goes into that player's 22 or in-goal area without touching an opposition player and then that player or another player from that team kicks the ball directly into touch before it touches an opposition player, or a tackle takes place or a ruck or maul is formed, there is no gain in ground. This applies when a defending player moves back behind the 22 metre line to take a quick throw-in and then the ball is kicked directly into touch.[/textarea]

 

[alex]

wow, not often you get a bonus point win and keep your opposition scoreless (table-wise) and still play "crap" !!

 

[Seaton]

Nope. If the ball is carried back, and then a ruck forms, the carried back has "expired". Same applies to a tackle after the ball is carried back

[textarea]LAW 19.1 THROW-IN
NO GAIN IN GROUND

(b) When a team causes the ball to be put into their own 22. When a defending player plays the ball from outside the 22 and it goes into that player's 22 or in-goal area without touching an opposition player and then that player or another player from that team kicks the ball directly into touch before it touches an opposition player, or a tackle takes place or a ruck or maul is formed, there is no gain in ground. This applies when a defending player moves back behind the 22 metre line to take a quick throw-in and then the ball is kicked directly into touch.[/textarea]

Must admit I also thought it should have been a Chiefs line-out in the Crusaders 22

So a team can fling it as far back into the 22 as they want, and can kick it directly into touch, so long as a ruck/maul is formed after the ball is brought back, or does the ruck/maul have to 'push' the ball back into the 22?

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Wasn't aware of the rule either!

You learn something every day

 

[TRF_Cymro]

As long as the ruck / maul has not been set up by the attacking team without a tackler, e.g. ball carrier going straight to ground unaided by the defense and setting the ruck up.

Could well be wrong. Cooky will reveal all.

 

[smartcooky]

As long as the ruck / maul has not been set up by the attacking team without a tackler, e.g. ball carrier going straight to ground unaided by the defense and setting the ruck up.

Could well be wrong. Cooky will reveal all.

That's not a tackle. For it to be a tackle, the ball carrier must be brought to ground by an opponent. If the ball carrier goes to ground voluntarily, then its covered by Law 14, "Ball on the ground. No tackle"

The Gain/No Gain Law is basically this.

1. Carry the ball back and kick it out,
2. Carry the ball back and pass it to a teammate who kicks it out,
3. Pass the ball back to a team mate who kicks it out,
4. Pass the ball back to a team-mate who passes the ball to another team-mate who kicks it out.

All four cases get no gain in ground if the ball is kicked directly into touch, without touching the ground or an opponent.

In any of these cases, if the ball is then touched by an opponent, or the ball carrier is tackled (and brought to ground) and/or a ruck is formed, the no gain situation expires and the ball may then be kicked directly into touch if the defending team get the ball from the tackle or the ruck.

In Cymro's example above, even if the player is not tackled (goes to ground voluntarily), if a ruck is formed, the no gain situation expires and the ball can be kicked directly out for a gain in ground.

Here are some variations on a scenario.

1. Red wins a ruck just outside their own 22, and the scrummie throws a shocking pass that skids along the ground and misses everyone. Red 10 dives on the ball, and another Red defender picks up the ball and kicks it out 40m downfield - pass back, no tackle so no gain in ground

2. Red wins a ruck just outside their own 22, and the scrummie throws a shocking pass that skids along the ground and misses everyone. Red 10 dives on the ball. A Blue attacker arrives and tries to pick up the ball but before he can touch it, a Red defender arrives too and binds into the Blue attacker. Ruck formed. The ball comes out of the Red side of the ruck, and a Red player picks it up and kicks it out 40m downfield - pass back, ruck formed, gain in ground allowed.

3. Red wins a ruck just outside their own 22, and the scrummie throws a long pass back to Red 10, who fumbles the ball. A Blue attacker arrives and tackles Red 10. A Red player enters thought the gate, picks up the ball and kicks it out 40m downfield - pass back, tackle made, gain in ground.

NOTE: Non of the above applies if a maul is formed. A maul does not negate the carry back situation.

 

[Sam Owen]

But the one who really took the cake for the chiefs was Kahui. All the talk before the game was about Sonny Bill and Fruen but on the day even in a losing side Kahui will be the one with the big tick beside his hame in Henry & Smith's book. He didn't get the ball much but when he did he looked very threatening and made good ground. And on defence calm and composed when he needed to be and totally brutal when he had the chance and he really shone on a day that everyone thought would belong to Sonny & Fruen. And he showed again that great abilty of his to "flick the switch" and take his game to another level which is why he's been so great for the AB's.

Still havent seen the game but yeah that Kahui should not be forgotten, I'd definately have him in my team.

 

[tgd]

yeah Kahui played good although 1 good game isnt enough... needs to back it up to be considered and stay injury free....... lacks an x factor for mine...

how unfit did fruean look in the last few plays before he got the hook....