Change of Coach needed!

[Shaun 85]

I know this may sound harsh and to be frank, I don't really give a **** but, in my opinion, Scotland need ANOTHER change if coach because Vern's record is ABYSMAL, ignore the World Cup, we got to where we expected.

0 wins so far in 6, 6 Nations encounters and likely to stay that way after 10 is just ridiculous when you consider that Edinburgh are doing well and Glasgow are defending champions.

I am getting sick fed up of this "Scotland played well but lose valiantly" pish because its getting ridiculous.

What I can't understand is how can Edinburgh/Glasgow be successful yet our National team are pish and can't even hold onto/catch a ball.

I am getting sick of being optimistic only to be angry when they fall short which is ALWAYS!!!

 

[Tony Manx]

Scottish teams are ok in the Pro12 because the Irish and Welsh teams do not give a damn about the competition!

Scotland just do not have, like Italy, the basic structures or professional teams to bring forward enough quality international players to win quality games in the 6N.

Wales seem to have managed to do this but for how much longer will they be able to do it for, as Ireland are finding out, it is not easy even with four teams playing in a reasonable competition never mind just the two!

England have 10/12 teams playing in a top competition week in and week out and do not have the Irish/Welsh system of resting players.

France are a different problem and, as @FREnch Fan points out so eloquently, their clubs and Federation hate each other never mind the numbers of foreign players playing in their league (an argument that I do not wholly agree with)!

With a decent coach making the correct selections with the right game plan and England should and soon will dominate the 6N making it a meaningless competition!!!!

One thing is certain, without a restructuring of the games played by players and the quality of competition faced, there is little to no chance of the NH international teams catching up with the SH teams because their whole structure is wholly geared to country as opposed to the NH where it is, in the main, geared to club/province with some interest in promoting the Country!

Rant over and let the gainsayers take over as this is not an argument or debate, more a statement of fact!!

 

[corny]

A new coach won't make a difference. You can see the structures are fine on the pitch but its the players making individual mistakes, taking the wrong options etc ensuring they lose.

Why thats happening? International rugby is a huge step up and some of the players carry baggage from losing so often ie they don't believe they can win.

 

[Shaun 85]

A change of coach worked for England!?

 

[corny]

Scottish teams are ok in the Pro12 because the Irish and Welsh teams do not give a damn about the competition!

Scotland just do not have, like Italy, the basic structures or professional teams to bring forward enough quality international players to win quality games in the 6N.

Wales seem to have managed to do this but for how much longer will they be able to do it for, as Ireland are finding out, it is not easy even with four teams playing in a reasonable competition never mind just the two!

England have 10/12 teams playing in a top competition week in and week out and do not have the Irish/Welsh system of resting players.

France are a different problem and, as @FREnch Fan points out so eloquently, their clubs and Federation hate each other never mind the numbers of foreign players playing in their league (an argument that I do not wholly agree with)!

With a decent coach making the correct selections with the right game plan and England should and soon will dominate the 6N making it a meaningless competition!!!!

One thing is certain, without a restructuring of the games played by players and the quality of competition faced, there is little to no chance of the NH international teams catching up with the SH teams because their whole structure is wholly geared to country as opposed to the NH where it is, in the main, geared to club/province with some interest in promoting the Country!

Rant over and let the gainsayers take over as this is not an argument or debate, more a statement of fact!!

Next time write that without all the exclamation marks. Obvious isn't the word!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[profitius]

You have only 2 teams and a fraction of Englands players. England were hot favourites with the bookies also so the result was expected. The bookies even got the handicap correct. The performance was disappointing from Scotland but you have to judge it over the course of a season.

Scottish teams are ok in the Pro12 because the Irish and Welsh teams do not give a damn about the competition!

England have 10/12 teams playing in a top competition week in and week out and do not have the Irish/Welsh system of resting players.

The first point is just not true. They have to give a damn about it anyway because of qualifying for the European cup.

What rest have the Irish players got? That stopped about 10 years ago. They went from a short pre season to the world cup and then straight into the next season. The Welsh are a different story but its a 4 nation league.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

A change of coach worked for England!?

Did it?
Lancaster didn't lose to Scotland at any point, Martin Johnson drew once and won the rest. It's not like we were getting smashed every year and Eddie Jones has turned everything around.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Wales seem to have managed to do this but for how much longer will they be able to do it for, as Ireland are finding out, it is not easy even with four teams playing in a reasonable competition never mind just 2

Ireland aren't finding that out at all Tony! We have future internationals getting regular game time at the provinces in possibly all positions but 6(?), 10 (which should be changed next year) and 15. Ireland, along with it's two traditional provincial powerhouses, are in transition, not running out of talent. Scotland's issue is deeper, they aren't producing the talent for the clubs and rely heavily on SH and English rejects. It'll be hard to fix and without knowing anything about Scottish underage rugby I can't provide any idea for change but what works well he're in Ireland and specifically Leinster is having high quality and pressure competitions at u16 and u18 level to find stand out players. The issue is that it's primarily schools focused and the clubs don't get the same level of competition, if underage club rugby can catch up with schools I'd argue Ireland would have an ideal underage set up, not necessarily for success at age-grade level but for providing players to the provinces and subsequently the national team.

 

[Peat]

Scotland U20 beat England U20 pretty handily on Friday and if anything the scoreline flattered England. If the talent conveyor is truly switched back on, things could go well for them... eventually.

 

[Belvedere]

Scotland U20 beat England U20 pretty handily on Friday and if anything the scoreline flattered England. If the talent conveyor is truly switched back on, things could go well for them... eventually.

This surprises me considering England's historic formidable presence at u20

FairPlay to the Scotchlings

 

[Peat]

This surprises me considering England's historic formidable presence at u20

FairPlay to the Scotchlings

In fairness, we did have Jon "Thief of Talent" Callard coaching, which is quite the handicap, but there were some damn good Junior Jocks out there. Particularly impressed by Blair Kinghorn.

 

[Tony Manx]

Ireland aren't finding that out at all Tony! We have future internationals getting regular game time at the provinces in possibly all positions but 6(?), 10 (which should be changed next year) and 15. Ireland, along with it's two traditional provincial powerhouses, are in transition, not running out of talent. Scotland's issue is deeper, they aren't producing the talent for the clubs and rely heavily on SH and English rejects. It'll be hard to fix and without knowing anything about Scottish underage rugby I can't provide any idea for change but what works well he're in Ireland and specifically Leinster is having high quality and pressure competitions at u16 and u18 level to find stand out players. The issue is that it's primarily schools focused and the clubs don't get the same level of competition, if underage club rugby can catch up with schools I'd argue Ireland would have an ideal underage set up, not necessarily for success at age-grade level but for providing players to the provinces and subsequently the national team.

I should check all of the facts before posting late at night when my fingers can, and obviously did, over ride my brain!

 

[ncurd]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015–16_European_Rugby_Champions_Cup

Sort of shows the state of the Pro12 teams currently, as noted it's France under performing rather than the other way around. 9 out of the 31 Welsh players play in England or France. Remember also 100% of England players play in England and most play for a top 6 club, 5 of which made the playoffs in European cup. In all honesty you pool that talent together and you understand why English fans are frustrated with our complete lack of tournament wins in the past 4 years.

So yeah I don't think you can read too much into Glasgow winning the Pro12 last season as a yard stick to whether they should beat England.

 

[dragos03]

Soctland was awful yesterday, no threat in attack at all, they never looked like they could score or even break the English line. I don't know if the coach is to blame but Cotter's teams tend to "almost" win games, too bad they rarely do. Look at all the finals and semifinals lost by Clermont when he was in charge or Scotland's RWC thriller vs Australia.

However, Scotland's talent pool is very limited so I don't know if any other coach can do much better. I was more dissapointed with England yesterday, who have many good players to choose from but played some dire rugby as well.

 

[CaledonCol]

Scottish teams are ok in the Pro12 because the Irish and Welsh teams do not give a damn about the competition!

Scotland just do not have, like Italy, the basic structures or professional teams to bring forward enough quality international players to win quality games in the 6N.

Wales seem to have managed to do this but for how much longer will they be able to do it for, as Ireland are finding out, it is not easy even with four teams playing in a reasonable competition never mind just the two!

England have 10/12 teams playing in a top competition week in and week out and do not have the Irish/Welsh system of resting players.

France are a different problem and, as @FREnch Fan points out so eloquently, their clubs and Federation hate each other never mind the numbers of foreign players playing in their league (an argument that I do not wholly agree with)!

With a decent coach making the correct selections with the right game plan and England should and soon will dominate the 6N making it a meaningless competition!!!!

One thing is certain, without a restructuring of the games played by players and the quality of competition faced, there is little to no chance of the NH international teams catching up with the SH teams because their whole structure is wholly geared to country as opposed to the NH where it is, in the main, geared to club/province with some interest in promoting the Country!

Rant over and let the gainsayers take over as this is not an argument or debate, more a statement of fact!!

Scotland 's player base is small but current policy of concentrating on Edinburgh and Glasgow is paying dividends . The Pro 12 IS keenly contested by both Ireland and Wales don't pretend it is not . VC is going the right way and there are positive signs . Younger talent coming through Was privileged to see the Uner 20s match when Scotland put four tries past the much vaunted England U 20s and conceded nil ! Let's bee realistic in analysis and ambition .

 

[McTallshort]

Here we go sack the coach, you will be asking for the whole team to be replaced with the U20s next. You lost 1 game grow up FFS it was only a few days ago you were saying how great Scotland are.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015–16_European_Rugby_Champions_Cup

Sort of shows the state of the Pro12 teams currently, as noted it's France under performing rather than the other way around. 9 out of the 31 Welsh players play in England or France. Remember also 100% of England players play in England and most play for a top 6 club, 5 of which made the playoffs in European cup. In all honesty you pool that talent together and you understand why English fans are frustrated with our complete lack of tournament wins in the past 4 years.

So yeah I don't think you can read too much into Glasgow winning the Pro12 last season as a yard stick to whether they should beat England.

I wouldn't look too far into this years competition in isolation, the union clubs will always struggle in an RWC year given the fact that they supply more internationals than English and French clubs and have no pre-season to prepare the core of their team. Leinster and Glasgow have come undone more than most by this having both lost 18+ players to the RWC. Taking Heineken Cups as a whole however would help your point, Scottish sides have reached the QF's twice in tournament history and have a sole SF appearence. That would suggest that the talent wasn't there, Glasgow had an impressive pro12 win but the provinces and Ospreys were weak which made the pro12 the weakest competition in Europe. Go back to 2012 when the provinces were competitive and the O's were a force to be reckoned with Glasgow and Edinburgh were struggling mid table. Even this year with the provinces (apart from Munster) building and improving domestically the Scottish sides have started to struggle.
They do have talent though and could have won yesterday's game and no one would have complained it they weren't good enough to score a try against a well set defence so didn't deserve to. The next 15 months could prove huge for Scottish rugby, they have the talent to sneak into the top half of the 6nations but their players need to be making shapes in Europe and find club form they've never had before. Unlikely but with a few of the players they have it is possible.

 

[ncurd]

I wouldn't look too far into this years competition in isolation, the union clubs will always struggle in an RWC year given the fact that they supply more internationals than English and French clubs and have no pre-season to prepare the core of their team. Leinster and Glasgow have come undone more than most by this having both lost 18+ players to the RWC. Taking Heineken Cups as a whole however would help your point, Scottish sides have reached the QF's twice in tournament history and have a sole SF appearence. That would suggest that the talent wasn't there, Glasgow had an impressive pro12 win but the provinces and Ospreys were weak which made the pro12 the weakest competition in Europe. Go back to 2012 when the provinces were competitive and the O's were a force to be reckoned with Glasgow and Edinburgh were struggling mid table. Even this year with the provinces (apart from Munster) building and improving domestically the Scottish sides have started to struggle.
They do have talent though and could have won yesterday's game and no one would have complained it they weren't good enough to score a try against a well set defence so didn't deserve to. The next 15 months could prove huge for Scottish rugby, they have the talent to sneak into the top half of the 6nations but their players need to be making shapes in Europe and find club form they've never had before. Unlikely but with a few of the players they have it is possible.

I was just pointing out the European Cup is a far better gauge of where Scottish teams are rather than a Pro12 win I think history have shown Ireland have a far bigger showing in general than this year. Welsh sides probably are the only ones who are not but their players are a little more dispersed rather than just playing in one nation.

The problem with your comment about the next 15 months for Scottish Rugby is I think thats the same thing everyone says about Scotland every year. As I've said previously when Scotland start winning against the top of tier 1 instead of valiantly losing I'll actually belive in Scottish resurgence but they've still yet to do that.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

TBF Scotland should be happy prob considered the best tier 2 team ATM.

Hell of a Achievement.

 

[Peat]

Soctland was awful yesterday, no threat in attack at all, they never looked like they could score or even break the English line. I don't know if the coach is to blame but Cotter's teams tend to "almost" win games, too bad they rarely do. Look at all the finals and semifinals lost by Clermont when he was in charge or Scotland's RWC thriller vs Australia.

However, Scotland's talent pool is very limited so I don't know if any other coach can do much better. I was more dissapointed with England yesterday, who have many good players to choose from but played some dire rugby as well.

7 line breaks isn't too shabby.