Canadian June Test Matches

[LittleGuy]

He is 3rd string at the ospreys right now so they really do not need him. Hopefully he joins a side next year that will give him a chance to play, I kind of had a feeling when he signed for ospreys he was going to be hard pressed for game time.

Yeah its a shame, he has been getting a little time in at Brigend in the Welsh Premiership but its certainly not the same level, perhaps next season a move to the RFU Championship would be beneficial or a even a weaker region that needs depth in the back row.

Did you have any thoughts on the captain choice now that Riordan has retired, Rugger? The consensus I'm hearing from here and elsewhere is leading me to think that most people are leaning towards, Kleeberger(CDN_Rugby's pick) Carpenter(my pick), Monro being promoted from vice-captain(A good option as well) or even Pritchard(I love Pritch but I really think being the player least connected with Canada would be kind of a strike against him as well he already has captain responsibilities at Bedford)

 

[Canadian_Rugger]

I would like to see Chauncey move to a weaker region, my hunch though is he probably ends up in the RFU Championship or the French 2nd Division. As for our Captain I would like to see Carpenter as he is a quiet leader who always shows up and lets his play on the field do the talking, not to mention he has been one of the most consistent performers for us the past couple of years.

I don't think Kleeberger would be a bad choice either though.

 

[LittleGuy]

Kickoff times have finally been announced for the games, and I will edit them into the first post of the thread, as well sales for the Kingston game have started and tickets look very affordable, there is an early bird special for those ordering early.

June 9th 2:00 p.m. EDT. Richardson Stadium, Kingston, Ontario: Canada vs. U.S.A.
June 15th 7:00 p.m. EDT. BMO Field, Toronto, Ontario: Canada vs. Italy
June 23rd 3:00 p.m. PDT. Swangard Stadium, Burnaby, British Cloumbia: Canada vs. Georgia

 

[Melhor Time]

Doug,

Canada have a great chance vs Italy. The match is on a Friday in Toronto and comes six days after Argentina vs Italy in San Juan. San Juan is a good 2.5 hours flight from Buenos Aires and Buenos Aires is far from Toronto... I´ve never been to Canada but when I flew from Dallas, Texas to Buenos Aires it was an 8 hour flight. In other words, Italy will only really have Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday to prepare for the Cannucks.

 

[LittleGuy]

Doug,

Canada have a great chance vs Italy. The match is on a Friday in Toronto and comes six days after Argentina vs Italy in San Juan. San Juan is a good 2.5 hours flight from Buenos Aires and Buenos Aires is far from Toronto... I´ve never been to Canada but when I flew from Dallas, Texas to Buenos Aires it was an 8 hour flight. In other words, Italy will only really have Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday to prepare for the Cannucks.

This is something I was thinking about as well Melhor, Canada only have a short 3 hour bus ride back to Toronto from Kingston. I wonder if Italy will have to make some changes to their lineup coming in, especially with Argentina likley to be a physical encounter. The Italians should be prepared for any Southern Ontario humidity though and with the game at night anyway it shouldn't be a factor as much as it was in the game against the USA last summer. I'm really looking forward to the squads being announced, for Canada Cudmore might not be available if Clermont make it to the final, and Marshall is injured although he is easier for Canada to cover for than Cudmore is.

 

[rusty_lock]

A possible option for hooker is Aaron Carpenter. He has extensive experience there, although not recently, having played in that spot for the national team before back in 06 in think. That would allow Sinclair to take up the the #8 role that he has shown so well at with London Irish and give Tyler Hotson the starting role he deserves. Jamie Cudmore's younger brother Luke is a lock and is playing for a french D2 team, the name escapes me now, but he might have bulked up enough to move into the National team frame. As far as Marshall is concerned he is expected to be out for 2 more months so that will leave him woefully short of game time prior to the June tests even if he should come right by then.

 

[LittleGuy]

Great to see you back on the forum Rusty.

I hadn't thought of Aaron Carpenter at Hooker but if it were at all posible it really excites me, as you guys know I've been a big fan of Hotson and would love to see him start. Crowley dosen't seem to be afraid to use guys in their 2nd(or even 3rd) choice position in order to get the best players available out onto the field so I'm sure he would consider all possible options. Hooker has really become a conundrum for the national side there really isn't a natural depth order as in almost every other position.

That's a shame about the Marshall injury and I agree with your assesment Rusty that will leave him short on game time and possibly fitness, maybe that means he can come off the bench late or return later in the tour. I'm guessing Scott Franklin or possibly Andrew Tieddeman will be brought in as cover, which is a slight downgrade but not the end of the world.

I just checked out the Top 14 schedule and the final is set for June 9th and Clermont have a great chance at making it, so Cudmore might not be in the picture for the United States game(and might have to hurry back for Italy as well.) Jebb will almost certainly have to be in the 2nd row if Cudmore can't make it, and It's possible Hotson will have a staring spot at Lock. Luke Cudmore(if he has bulked up) and Josh Jackson(Stade Montois) could both be options to bring back into the program, Jackson can play at both 2nd and backrow positions.

The officials have been announced for the games as well guys, and Marius Jonker(SA) will referee the States game, while Dave Pearson(England) will be in charge for the final two as well as being an assistant in the first game. Stuart Berry(SA) will be an assistant in both games and an American official to be named will help out in the last two as well. No TMO has been announced which is a little surpising for the Canada-Italy game especially.

Did you have a pick for the new Captain, Rusty?

 

[rusty_lock]

I had forgotten about Josh Jackson, so between him Tyler Hotson, Luke and a late arriving Jamie Cudmore we should be fine at lock and not need that Sinclair in the second row. I really want to see him at 6 or 8. Where that leaves the rest of the loose forwards I'm not so sure. Maybe O'toole of the bench with Carpenter and Kleeberger starting. I know some will say that that is a waste of Dala but I just can't see keeping sinclair in the second row just so you can have Dala on the bench. It doesn't make sense to me.

As far as the referees are concerned, two thumbs up for Pearson and two thumbs down for Jonker. Jonker is the most pedantic referee I know and I fear that when you put him between to "tier 2" combatants he will feel the need to be the centre of attention. I ahve always liked Pearson, so I'm glad he will be doing the games I'm most concerned about.

For Captain I'd like to see Pritchard or Carpenter. I know that you discounted Pritch because he isn't "really Canadian" but he has proved a tireless and faithful servant for Canadian Rugby as evidenced by his current "you'll have to push me out" attitude and has the leadership experience necessary from his time at Bedford. However, I suspect you are right that it will be Munro as he is resident in Canada right now, is part of the national carding system and working with the National team coaches on a regular basis. There might be a little resistance to his captaincy for some quarters since he is a "funny talker" and some folks don't think that you can be a patriotic Canadian unless you were born on frozen prairie pound or at birth were baptized in Nfld screech.

Also another player to throw into the mix is Mark Kohler. He is currently playing for Bedford, is English by birth but has played for Canada at U20 level and appears to have interest in playing for the national team. He is a winger and perhaps he could fill that role allowing Evans to have a go at 12.

 

[LittleGuy]

I had forgotten about Josh Jackson, so between him Tyler Hotson, Luke and a late arriving Jamie Cudmore we should be fine at lock and not need that Sinclair in the second row. I really want to see him at 6 or 8. Where that leaves the rest of the loose forwards I'm not so sure. Maybe O'toole of the bench with Carpenter and Kleeberger starting. I know some will say that that is a waste of Dala but I just can't see keeping sinclair in the second row just so you can have Dala on the bench. It doesn't make sense to me.

As far as the referees are concerned, two thumbs up for Pearson and two thumbs down for Jonker. Jonker is the most pedantic referee I know and I fear that when you put him between to "tier 2" combatants he will feel the need to be the centre of attention. I ahve always liked Pearson, so I'm glad he will be doing the games I'm most concerned about.

For Captain I'd like to see Pritchard or Carpenter. I know that you discounted Pritch because he isn't "really Canadian" but he has proved a tireless and faithful servant for Canadian Rugby as evidenced by his current "you'll have to push me out" attitude and has the leadership experience necessary from his time at Bedford. However, I suspect you are right that it will be Munro as he is resident in Canada right now, is part of the national carding system and working with the National team coaches on a regular basis. There might be a little resistance to his captaincy for some quarters since he is a "funny talker" and some folks don't think that you can be a patriotic Canadian unless you were born on frozen prairie pound or at birth were baptized in Nfld screech.

Also another player to throw into the mix is Mark Kohler. He is currently playing for Bedford, is English by birth but has played for Canada at U20 level and appears to have interest in playing for the national team. He is a winger and perhaps he could fill that role allowing Evans to have a go at 12.

I hope it hasn't come across as myself putting forward this point of view as my own, I just see it being a problem with many in the fan base especially casual fans. God knows even Crowley and Geraint John take enough heat and they are only coaches for not being "Canadian".

Edit: This is a post I made in another thread that I think fits my personal views better about Pritchard as a captain choice, hopefully Crowley will make this decision from a purely rugby standpoint and ignore the politics of the choice. My thinking Pritchard won't be chosen is more a reflection of what I think will happen and I could certainly be making too much of a deal about the connection to Canada being a problem with some fans and within the Rugby Canada managment.

"After Ander as Captain I'm not sure who would fit in as vice-captain, Pritchard would be a good choice from a purely rugby perspective although I think him being the least connected to Canada of any of the players might dissuade his selection. Cudmore has serious discipline issues, most of the other players don't really fit the captains profile. I'm thinking maybe Aaron Carpenter might be a good fit though. "

Mark Kohler has had a great season at Bedford, as well Cam Pierce in the Clermont Academy should be given a call in the next couple of seasons to get him into the setup.

 

[CDN_Rugby]

A possible option for hooker is Aaron Carpenter.

I'm not really a fan of that. For whatever reason we seem to think that we can convert anyone into a hooker and it usually ends up backfiring (Pletch, Pletch, Carpenter). It's obviously Hamilton's job to lose, but if he starts to stink we need to look at a bonifide hooker (even if it's an older guy) in the CDI or CRC. Quick fixes at hooker won't work in the long run.

Also, does anyone think Sean-Michael Stephen will be back in Canadian colours? Might be good coming off the bench as he can cover 4-8.

 

[LittleGuy]

I'm not really a fan of that. For whatever reason we seem to think that we can convert anyone into a hooker and it usually ends up backfiring (Pletch, Pletch, Carpenter). It's obviously Hamilton's job to lose, but if he starts to stink we need to look at a bonifide hooker (even if it's an older guy) in the CDI or CRC. Quick fixes at hooker won't work in the long run.

Also, does anyone think Sean-Michael Stephen will be back in Canadian colours? Might be good coming off the bench as he can cover 4-8.

I was just thinking the exact same thing today CDN_Rugby, he was in the setup in 2010 so it hasn't been that long, I had heard through the grapevine that many considered him over the hill, but he is still Captain at Albion so at least at club level they feel he is filling his spot well.

The depth at backrow is impressive and I have a feeling that someone will have to be moved up to play 4 and 5 that we might prefer in the back row, especially if Cudmore isn't available due to club commitments. I'd like to see Hotson move into the starting lineup, but that would still leave a bench spot to be filled, I would rather Josh Jackson or Sean Micheal-Stephen get a call than keeeping Erichsen who is nearly 35 this spring in the scheme(don't get me wrong I love Erichsen he had some good performances especially as a late-bloomer his game against France A was amazing). Dala gives Canada versatility off the bench. Kyne might also still be in play for games like the United States one.

I'm thinking that you'll be right about Hamilton, that it will be his spot to lose, another thing to figure out is who backs him up, maybe Carpenter can do a little practice just in case of an emergency but I'm thinking a more specialist Hooker would be a more probable option. Has Scott Franklin played at Hooker in a while? Otherwise it's as you said having a look at the CRC or CDI with perhaps keeping an eye on how Barkwill is doing with Western Force in Oz. Marshall is touch and go to be available for the tour depending on his speed of recovery, he is back in BC at the moment. Mark Kohler is also injured, but James Pritchard has told Jeff Hull in an interview that they expect Kohler to be available in a couple of weeks for the Bedford Blues.

I also read an Associated Press article on the NSMT tour today and there was a line about a fall tour to England, which I think might be an error thats supposed to say Europe, England has a full test schedule planned, as does Wales. Scotland might have an open date, unless they are talking about Canada playing English clubs whcih I don't really like(maybe one such game out of four wouldn't be the end of the world), I was under the impression that Canada would be playing the likes of Romania, Russia, Georgia, Spain with possibly a tier one team thrown in there as well.

 

[psychic duck]

Sean Michael-Stephen around the 2008 tour was talked about as the "one to watch" from the Canadian team, but didn't even end up making the World Cup 30, potential unfulfilled?

lock/back row is undoubtedly the position Canada are best at producing players at though, remember there is Cam Pierce in the Clermont academy (which he got thanks to one of Canada's best ever players Mike James) one of the finest academies in the world, he may be one for the future for sure

also in the Clermont academy is Conor McCann, a fly half which Canada may well need soon as Monro must be getting a bit old now

I think the Canada lock/back row will still be like the World Cup one though, just with Hotson coming in for an unavailable Cudmore and Jackson perhaps coming onto the bench

 

[LittleGuy]

Sean Michael-Stephen around the 2008 tour was talked about as the "one to watch" from the Canadian team, but didn't even end up making the World Cup 30, potential unfulfilled?

lock/back row is undoubtedly the position Canada are best at producing players at though, remember there is Cam Pierce in the Clermont academy (which he got thanks to one of Canada's best ever players Mike James) one of the finest academies in the world, he may be one for the future for sure

also in the Clermont academy is Conor McCann, a fly half which Canada may well need soon as Monro must be getting a bit old now

I think the Canada lock/back row will still be like the World Cup one though, just with Hotson coming in for an unavailable Cudmore and Jackson perhaps coming onto the bench

Good post Psychic, sorry I didn't get back to it earlier,

I think Sean Michael-Stephen for the most part just got stuck down in the depth chart due to the strength of the rest of the backline, he never really seemed to shine for Canada although he wasn't terrible in the colours. He mainly came off the bench in his later appearances, and I have a feeling that Crowley figured he wasn't going to use him much so he might as well let him stick to his important club duties in Plymouth. The selection of Jeremy Kyne for the 30 man squad did surprise many in Canadian circles who might have expected Stephen or even Stan McKeen to get the spot instead. I think Sean has had a fairly good club career becoming Captain of his RFU Championship side and I wouldn't be shocked if he we saw him in the Canadian jersey if there are some injuries in the 2nd and back rows I suppose you could say a slight dissapointment in terms of the hype but there have been many who have done worse out of Canada's system.

I can't wait to see Cam Pierce develop I'm hearing great things from Clermont and having Connor McCann as a fly-half in an academy of that level is immense, Monro should be available for this RWC cycle(although he may not be able to start every game by that point) while Hirayama has been absolutely fantastic at the 7's game he has always left me a little underwhelmed in the 15's side. Canada's other #10's would all be either CRC players or guys out of position eg. Matt Evans filled in at #10 in an emergency for Monro who had a stomach infection at the 2010 Churchill Cup. The FH options at the CRC level are OK players although I'm not sure how they would fare at an international level, Dean Blanks has won the CRC player of the year award for The Rock and is probably the best non-national team FH in Canada.

I would agree with your assesment of what the back rows will look like if Cudmore is unavailable, Hotson deserves to start he has earned that position.

If anyone has missed it, the tickets for the Internationals are now on sale and there are some fantastic early bird specials(with limited availability) I picked up a front row seat(to the left of the Italian Bench) to the Italy game for just $25 instead of $45, the prices do look pretty fair and in fact many sections are cheaper this year than they were for the States game last year. Tickets for the US and Georgian games are also on sale the Rugby Canada website has pricing details and I really can't stress enough the great deal the early birds are. I think its one of the smartest things Rugby Canada has done in a while hopefully they can really push for the 17,000 they are hoping for in Toronto.

 

[rusty_lock]

Just bought my tickets to Canada v. Georgia. Sec D Row 18, just about as good as you can get without being in the coaches booth with KC. Swangard holds 5288 in the grandstand but I'm not sure what the capacity is when you include the grandstands on the east side. I'm hoping the game is completely sold out. Canada v. Ireland at UBC a couple of years ago was incredibly well attended. Est. was around 8000.

Cudmore has rarely made himself available outside of the world cup but he does seem to be much more engaged with the team now than he has in years past so maybe that will change things. I suppose that it will also depend on how deep CA goes in T14 playoffs. The article by CP on Jason Marshall seems to indicate that he is targeting the June internationals as a return date so hopefully he will be fit and ready to go.

One interesting question should be scrum half. As we all love Ed, of course we all hope that he is the starting 9 but I'm wondering if he will make himself available and if the selectors will be willing to select him or will they be moving on looking forward to 2015

 

[Melhor Time]

Cudmore has rarely made himself available outside of the world cup but he does seem to be much more engaged with the team now than he has in years past so maybe that will change things. I suppose that it will also depend on how deep CA goes in T14 playoffs. The article by CP on Jason Marshall seems to indicate that he is targeting the June internationals as a return date so hopefully he will be fit and ready to go.

I emailed Rugby Canada a couple of years ago about Cudmore and got a response that Kieran Crowley opted to not use him as he wanted Cudmore to be on great terms with Clermont so that he could be at his best for Canada come 2011. According to the email it was not Cudmore making himself unavaliable but Canada just wanting to have a win-win situation by finding more players for the World Cup. It was vital too remembering that Luke Tait, Colin Yukes and the legend Mike James were all no longer around. It helpd with the development of players like Tyler Hotson.

 

[LittleGuy]

Just bought my tickets to Canada v. Georgia. Sec D Row 18, just about as good as you can get without being in the coaches booth with KC. Swangard holds 5288 in the grandstand but I'm not sure what the capacity is when you include the grandstands on the east side. I'm hoping the game is completely sold out. Canada v. Ireland at UBC a couple of years ago was incredibly well attended. Est. was around 8000.

Cudmore has rarely made himself available outside of the world cup but he does seem to be much more engaged with the team now than he has in years past so maybe that will change things. I suppose that it will also depend on how deep CA goes in T14 playoffs. The article by CP on Jason Marshall seems to indicate that he is targeting the June internationals as a return date so hopefully he will be fit and ready to go.

One interesting question should be scrum half. As we all love Ed, of course we all hope that he is the starting 9 but I'm wondering if he will make himself available and if the selectors will be willing to select him or will they be moving on looking forward to 2015

I was thinking the same thing Rusty, I love Ed, but I'm not sure he can make it to the next RWC, if Sean White can deliver some more consistent performances and with Jamie Mackenzie also an option, at some point some tough choices have to be made, it's also possible they'll use in him in a game or two and not the whole tour(actually this is quite likely). I would like to see Sean get a chance against the USA. Italy I really feel is a huge game for Canada and whatever Crowley thinks is the best 15(and 22) should get in. The Georgian game it kind of depends how the tour has gone and if the Lelos have fielded a strong lineup.

Great to see you finally getting a home test on the west coast Rusty, I think the fans will be raring to see the boys in action and I saw the general admission standing room fees are very affordable, if they can get 8,000(and possibly more) thats a great crowd. I think they are hoping for around 7-8 thousand for the USA game as well, right now I'm about 50/50 to go to that as Kingston is about a four hour drive for me.

Colin Yukes was a great player it was a sad day for the program when he left with a couple of years left in his prime.

 

[Canadian_Rugger]

I am disappointed that I won't get to see Canada play Italy or the US as I will still be in Jamaica at that point working (Been here since February). I am hoping to see Canada run the ball I think our team can outrun the Italian backline and we would be well advised to keep it in the loose. Also really interested to see what happens to Chauncey O'toole once he is released from his contract with Ospreys... hopefully he gets another lick and if not maybe the Pro D2 or RFU Championship. Also who the heck are we going to have play Hooker?

 

[rusty_lock]

I am disappointed that I won't get to see Canada play Italy or the US as I will still be in Jamaica at that point working (Been here since February). I am hoping to see Canada run the ball I think our team can outrun the Italian backline and we would be well advised to keep it in the loose. Also really interested to see what happens to Chauncey O'toole once he is released from his contract with Ospreys... hopefully he gets another lick and if not maybe the Pro D2 or RFU Championship. Also who the heck are we going to have play Hooker?

Definitely agree we need to spin it wide and try and move Italy's forwards around. The mobility of forwards, particularily 4-8 has to be our one big advantage. O'toole has said that he will be moving on next year he just hasn't indicated where he will be looking. He will obviously have better luck finding a club in the Championship as their import quota ratio is higher than in the premiership. Ryan Hamiliton is going to be first choice at hooker. The job will be his to lose anyways.

 

[LittleGuy]

Phil Mackenzie is having Groin surgery, but he expects to be back in a month or so, hopefully he's good for the tour, also another question who backs up Hamilton at Hooker? It's going to be an interesting process to see who dons the #2 and #16 jerseys.

 

[psychic duck]

I emailed Rugby Canada a couple of years ago about Cudmore and got a response that Kieran Crowley opted to not use him as he wanted Cudmore to be on great terms with Clermont so that he could be at his best for Canada come 2011. According to the email it was not Cudmore making himself unavaliable but Canada just wanting to have a win-win situation by finding more players for the World Cup. It was vital too remembering that Luke Tait, Colin Yukes and the legend Mike James were all no longer around. It helpd with the development of players like Tyler Hotson.

lock is by far Canada's strongest position anyway, and also Cudmore's relationship with Clermont could be the reason Cam Pierce and McCann are now in the Clermont Espoirs squad, I heard that it was Mike James who suggested Pierce to them, but I still doubt it would have happened if Cudmore wasn't there