Calder calls for Flower of Scotland to be ditched

[g6mcg]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MunsterMan @ Jun 23 2009, 10:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (g6mcg @ Jun 23 2009, 08:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's unique amongst anthems, I would guess, having been written by a load of hippies on drugs.[/b]

Ireland's Call :bad:[/b][/quote]

Every time somebody complains about our anthem, I'll mention that <strike>song</strike> sound. It's the most effective way to silence an Irishman, play that and you wont hear from them again. (I love you really)

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MunsterMan @ Jun 23 2009, 10:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Anyway, do you have any songs you can sing that aren't in English?[/b]

Most of them wouldn't be recognised as English by Londoners, they have a "hint of the wee Scots". (Stolen from a biscuit tin that I had to stack for tourists when I was younger. It's a quote that haunts me to this day)

 

[MunsterMan]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (noidsay @ Jun 23 2009, 10:39 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MunsterMan @ Jun 23 2009, 10:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Anyway, do you have any songs you can sing that aren't in English?[/b]

The language of the Opressor!!!!
[/b][/quote]


Haha I'm not a militant Pro-Irish language campaigner don't worry, Just thought I'd ask the question, didn't realise that less than 2% of Scotland speaks an indigenous language.

 

[jim lewis]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Meh @ Jun 3 2009, 10:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Butbutbut...


Everybody knows it. I disagree that it's a simply a song about rivalry with England. It's a song about Scotland fighting off invaders; those invaders happened to be England.

I can't see many other songs being sung with such clarity and bombast that FOS is.[/b]

No it isn't about any invader. It's quite specific about England, unless Edward was king of some other country we don't know about. Oh, and of course it's bombastic. It's about England, which kind of makes Calder's point for him. We need to stop defining ourslves by who we don't like.

 

[aligmacd123]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jim Lewis @ Jul 11 2009, 08:10 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Meh @ Jun 3 2009, 10:27 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Butbutbut...


Everybody knows it. I disagree that it's a simply a song about rivalry with England. It's a song about Scotland fighting off invaders; those invaders happened to be England.

I can't see many other songs being sung with such clarity and bombast that FOS is.[/b]

No it isn't about any invader. It's quite specific about England, unless Edward was king of some other country we don't know about. Oh, and of course it's bombastic. It's about England, which kind of makes Calder's point for him. We need to stop defining ourslves by who we don't like.
[/b][/quote]
We need to define ourselves by who we actually are! Good Point Jim

 

[Bullitt]

TBH, it's very hypocritical to not want to be defined by "who we don't like" when the SRU define their pre-match 'entertainment' before England at Murrayfield as William Wallace and a bunch of other costumed barbarians rushing around the pitch waving their swords and tartan like a scene from Braveheart. Split messages, plus I doubt (for example) that a 17th century pikeblock carging their pikes at the Scottish fans during the opposite fixture would be so "well recieved".

That said, I still like Flower of Scotland.

 

[aligmacd123]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teh Mite @ Jul 11 2009, 09:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

TBH, it's very hypocritical to not want to be defined by "who we don't like" when the SRU define their pre-match 'entertainment' before England at Murrayfield as William Wallace and a bunch of other costumed barbarians rushing around the pitch waving their swords and tartan like a scene from Braveheart. Split messages, plus I doubt (for example) that a 17th century pikeblock carging their pikes at the Scottish fans during the opposite fixture would be so "well recieved".

That said, I still like Flower of Scotland.[/b]

I think that with the heritage based "entertainment" the SRU are trying to stir up some patriotism in the players and the fans...but being brutally honest...I like highland cathedral (written by two Germans) and I would rather see my country winning on its own merits not because they hate the English.

In the last 4 years Scotland have won the Calcutta Cup...but they were boring games and I wish to see Scotland stepping up to the mark that they deserve and winning because they are the better team and not just because they hate the opposition and get lucky sometimes...all the time more likely...we have good players and I hope Andy Robinson can whip them into shape...

 

[cyRil]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MunsterMan @ Jun 23 2009, 11:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

less than 2% of Scotland speaks an indigenous language.[/b]

Isn't that 1%?

 

[dundeesmiffy]

As I said before, the SRU have much much much much bigger fish to fry. Bringing our national anthem into the question isn't something that needs to change, the fact we only have 2 professional clubs and we get pasted in nearly every international game are two things that need some serious work.

Hopefully we don't get it too badly in the 2010 6N.

 

[Prestwick]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MunsterMan @ Jun 23 2009, 10:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (g6mcg @ Jun 23 2009, 08:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's unique amongst anthems, I would guess, having been written by a load of hippies on drugs.[/b]

Ireland's Call :bad:
[/b][/quote]

The former was witten by a load of hippies and the latter was wrriten by a bunch of diplomats seeking harmony/a huge fudge.

Let me narrow it down for you: the former was written for Scotland and the latter written for Ireland.

Bottom line, Ireland's Call wasn't written by a load of hippies on drugs but by a load of Irishmen who wanted everyone to get along ya'all...

EDIT: I think Highland Cathedral was absolutely awesome. The fact that it was written by a German or two shouldn't matter at all, in fact, it should stand as the highest complement to your nation.

Imagine, your nation is so awesome that other nationalities will spend time to write songs in your honour then that has to be special!

 

[C A Iversen]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Prestwick @ Jul 12 2009, 01:18 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MunsterMan @ Jun 23 2009, 10:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (g6mcg @ Jun 23 2009, 08:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's unique amongst anthems, I would guess, having been written by a load of hippies on drugs.[/b]

Ireland's Call :bad:
[/b][/quote]

The former was witten by a load of hippies and the latter was wrriten by a bunch of diplomats seeking harmony/a huge fudge.

Let me narrow it down for you: the former was written for Scotland and the latter written for Ireland.

Bottom line, Ireland's Call wasn't written by a load of hippies on drugs but by a load of Irishmen who wanted everyone to get along ya'all...

EDIT: I think Highland Cathedral was absolutely awesome. The fact that it was written by a German or two shouldn't matter at all, in fact, it should stand as the highest complement to your nation.

Imagine, your nation is so awesome that other nationalities will spend time to write songs in your honour then that has to be special!
[/b][/quote]

Go "Mull Of Kintyre", lol.

 

[jim lewis]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teh Mite @ Jul 11 2009, 09:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

TBH, it's very hypocritical to not want to be defined by "who we don't like" when the SRU define their pre-match 'entertainment' before England at Murrayfield as William Wallace and a bunch of other costumed barbarians rushing around the pitch waving their swords and tartan like a scene from Braveheart. Split messages, plus I doubt (for example) that a 17th century pikeblock carging their pikes at the Scottish fans during the opposite fixture would be so "well recieved".

That said, I still like Flower of Scotland.[/b]

I'm not sure why it's hypocritical, when those of us intelligent enough to have this kind of conversation are just as tired of idiots in blue makeup emulating a short American actor playing a tall Scotsman. Mite, I'm not the SRU. I suspect, by the way, that Finlay Calder has no love for blue paint either. Apart from anything else, an English pikeblock charging Scottish fans are likely to get their arses kicked. Some things never change.

 

[Bullitt]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jim Lewis @ Jul 12 2009, 07:33 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

an English pikeblock charging Scottish fans are likely to get their arses kicked. Some things never change.[/b]

Wut? :huh:

 

[gingergenius]

I'd get rid of it simply cos it's a **** anthem. Slow and dirgy. England should change from God Save The Queen too.

Let's have some more Hen wlad whatever and Marseillaises which are incredible anthems. Jerusalem's that calibre of song.

 

[DonBilly]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cyRil of Ospreylia @ Jul 11 2009, 01:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MunsterMan @ Jun 23 2009, 11:10 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

less than 2% of Scotland speaks an indigenous language.[/b]

Isn't that 1%?
[/b][/quote]

Is there any intent in Scotland to revive the language? An example that came to my mind in Spain the Basque used to be spoken by very few in the mid-seventies. Now it is spoken by many and in one generation if they follow progressing, the majority of the people living in Basque region will speak Basque.

 

[dundeesmiffy]

Not many people speak Gaelic in Scotland, but I think Auld Scots / Doric* (although admittedly dialects) can be difficult tongues to master.
I remember reading that a lot of English was derived from Auld Scots. I would say Gaelic is very much a dying language but there are so many words people in Scotland use in day to day speech that derive from Auld Scots or Doric so I would say they are very much alive.

*example of Doric from Wikipedia;

Doric
GIN I was God, sittin' up there abeen,
Weariet nae doot noo a' my darg was deen,
Deaved wi' the harps an' hymns oonendin' ringin',
Tired o' the flockin' angels hairse wi' singin',
To some clood-edge I'd daunder furth an', feth,
Look ower an' watch hoo things were gyaun aneth.
Syne, gin I saw hoo men I'd made mysel'
Had startit in to pooshan, sheet an' fell,
To reive an' rape, an' fairly mak' a hell
O' my braw birlin' Earth,--a hale week's wark--
I'd cast my coat again, rowe up my sark,
An' or they'd time to lench a second ark,
Tak' back my word an' sen' anither spate,
Droon oot the hale hypothec, dicht the sklate,
Own my mistak', an, aince I cleared the brod,
Start a'thing ower again, gin I was God.

Translation
IF I were God, sitting up there above,
Wearied no doubt, now all my work was done,
Deafened by the harps and hymns unending ringing,
Tired of the flocking angels hoarse with singing,
To some cloud edge I'd saunter forth and, faith,
Look over and watch how things were going beneath.
Then if I saw how men, I'd made myself
Had started out to poison, shoot and fell,
To steal and rape and fairly make a hell
Of my fine spinning Earth -- a whole week's work --
I'd drop my coat again, roll up my shirt,
And, ere they'd time to launch a second ark,
Take back my word and send another flood,
Drown out the whole shebang, wipe the slate,
Admit my mistake, and once I'd cleared the board,
Start everything over again, if I were God

 

[Bullitt]

English derived from Latin, not any of the Celtic tongues. That said, it's a whorish language which steals bits and pieces from all the others.

That Doric looks more like accented English then anything else.

 

[jim lewis]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teh Mite @ Jul 13 2009, 03:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

English derived from Latin, not any of the Celtic tongues. That said, it's a whorish language which steals bits and pieces from all the others.

That Doric looks more like accented English then anything else.[/b]

That's because in part it is. As Smiffy just explained, it's a dialect, not a language. Spoken by Aberdonians.


Wut?

You heard. We'd take your pikes and stick them where the sun don't shine, just as always.

 

[gingergenius]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Teh Mite @ Jul 13 2009, 03:38 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

English derived from Latin, not any of the Celtic tongues. That said, it's a whorish language which steals bits and pieces from all the others.

That Doric looks more like accented English then anything else.[/b]

English is a Germanic language (not Latinate/ Romance), which has evolved in 3-4 major stages -

Old English (an amalgm of the languages of the Angles, Saxons, Jutes and Danes who invaded c. 1500 years ago):

Wrætlic is þes wealstan, wyrde gebræcon;
burgstede burston, brosnað enta geweorc.
Hrofas sind gehrorene, hreorge torras,
hrungeat berofen, hrim on lime,
scearde scurbeorge scorene, gedrorene,
ældo undereotone. Eorðgrap hafað
waldend wyrhtan forweorone, geleorene,
heardgripe hrusan, oþ hund cnea
werþeoda gewitan.

Middle English (added the major influence of Norman French, and is similar to Scots/ Ulster Scots spoken today):

And therto he was sleigh and ful privee,
And lyk a mayden meke for to see.
A chambre hadde he in that hostelrye
Allone, withouten any compaignye,
Ful fetisly ydight with herbes swoote;
And he hymself as sweete as is the roote
Of lycorys, or any cetewale.
His almageste, and bookes grete and smale,
His astrelabie, longynge for his art,
His augrym stones layen faire apart,
On shelves couched at his beddes heed;
His presse ycovered with a faldyng reed;

And Modern English, the beginning of which came around Shakespeare's time.

anyway, there'll be 1 more Scottish Gaelic speaker soonosh, I'm doing Scottish Gaelic as part of a linguistics course at University.

 

[bristol-iain]

Or as we say down here;

Where's that Pub to?
Ow bist me lover?
We was jus avin a laff.
Schalk? Ee's a right nutjob ee is.
I got me bananawls down Asdawl.

Or summat

 

[dundeesmiffy]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (bristol-iain @ Jul 13 2009, 08:59 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Or as we say down here;

Where's that Pub to?
Ow bist me lover?
We was jus avin a laff.
Schalk? Ee's a right nutjob ee is.
I got me bananawls down Asdawl.

Or summat[/b]

I f***ing love the Bristol accent...it makes me happy haha.