British & Irish Lions vs Japan

[Jakedood]

One thing I will say about this is I think Gatland has gone a little old school, for a tighthead lock and a loosehead lock having different roles. AWj he clearly wanted to be big in tackle counts, hit a ton of rucks and lock out the scrum. He's expecting the same of Beard, Jonny Hill. Hendy as well, though he can kind of do everything in a loose or tight side of things. Maro is the only one who's not fitting this definition, and in fact you can understand why, he's that good (for me anyway) that he hast to be there, plus although he weighs less, I would wager he's as strong as the rest of them, a real explosive athlete, and potentially Tadgh Beirne if he plays in the row at some point

 

[Welsh Exile]

I don't think the Lions are a step up from international rugby at all, the opposition don't suddenly get better than they would on a normal summer tour and the Lions rarely add up more than the sum of their parts, more so in recent years which cause more by the small amount of time players get together. There s a lot of prestige and the game atmosphere is diffrent for sure.

Yeah, I guess I'm more alluding to your last sentence though I would say it's a step up in terms of mentality (as it's the peak of a players career) and therefore it's slightly higher on the intensity scale. Not a massive step up in those areas but it's still a step up in my opinion.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Cheers. Which 4 are they out of interest?

Mostert, Marx, Mapimpi and Millie me Moux

That's players from the final, there might be more from the full squad

 

[General Melchett]

I do remember thinking Kruis was a bit harshly treated in 2017 when he was dropped for not being much worse than others who played in the opening test defeat. Not sure if he did something else to p off Gatland behind the scenes.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Mostert, Marx, Mapimpi and Millie me Moux

That's players from the final, there might be more from the full squad

Cheers for the info. That is interesting as Marx is world class for me and I'd have him as first choice even though he appears to be second choice at the moment.

 

[Jakedood]

I do remember thinking Kruis was a bit harshly treated in 2017 when he was dropped for not being much worse than others who played in the opening test defeat. Not sure if he did something else to p off Gatland behind the scenes.

There must have been something in the performance, as he dropped out of the squad altogether. Wasnt his best game mind by any stretch, but I'd also argue he's improved a lot up to 2019 so who knows?

 

[Groundhog]

Mostert, Marx, Mapimpi and Millie me Moux

That's players from the final, there might be more from the full squad

Snyman was playing there at the time as well. Dunno if others were. In their current squad they also have Kwagga Smith and Jesse Kriel included this time

 

[Jakedood]

Cheers for the info. That is interesting as Marx is world class for me and I'd have him as first choice even though he appears to be second choice at the moment.

I think Vermeulen may have been too?

 

[Bada-Bing!]

I don't think the Lions are a step up from international rugby at all, the opposition don't suddenly get better than they would on a normal summer tour and the Lions rarely add up more than the sum of their parts, more so in recent years which cause more by the small amount of time players get together. There s a lot of prestige and the game atmosphere is diffrent for sure.

Many would say it's the intensity that is a step up in terms of physicality and mentally. It's more like the equivalent of the three knockout matches at the RWC IMO with the last test equivalent of a final of a RWC if it's the decider.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I think Vermeulen may have been too?

He was during the RWC but is back in RSA now - my list is only players currently out there

If anything that's a bigger plus for Top League, though - it's undoubtedly a tougher league now than it was a few years ago, and the RWC is a tougher comp than a lions tour

 

[ncurd]

I do remember thinking Kruis was a bit harshly treated in 2017 when he was dropped for not being much worse than others who played in the opening test defeat. Not sure if he did something else to p off Gatland behind the scenes.

There must have been something in the performance, as he dropped out of the squad altogether. Wasnt his best game mind by any stretch, but I'd also argue he's improved a lot up to 2019 so who knows?

I mean I alluded to it earlier and I don't really want to grumpy about stuff from 4 years ago. Gatland should of been playing Kruis and Itoje, the only time on the field we actually won (against 14 men) was when the two were playing together in the second test. Although it didn't help in the first test. It was definitely at the time a pretty weird set of decisions for some and more bore out of his refusal to drop Jones and Itoje playing out of his skin and basically demanding to be played, so Kruis was ditched. People do forget sometimes how strong Kruis and Itoje are as a combination.

 

[ncurd]

Many would say it's the intensity that is a step up in terms of physicality and mentally. It's more like the equivalent of the three knockout matches at the RWC IMO with the last test equivalent of a final of a RWC if it's the decider.

I'd say thats fair I would compare it with toughest tests of international rugby its certainly higher than an autumn international, but I'd have it up there with a summer series against those teams (if they happen) or a GS decider (and the game before) especially if both teams are up for it.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I'd say thats fair I would compare it with toughest tests of international rugby its certainly higher than an autumn international, but I'd have it up there with a summer series against those teams (if they happen) or a GS decider (and the game before) especially if both teams are up for it.

So what you're saying is, it is a step up.

 

[ncurd]

So what you're saying is, it is a step up.

How can it be a step up when its the equivalent of something?

 

[Welsh Exile]

How can it be a step up when its the equivalent of something?

My bad, when you said "that fair" to a post that rightly said it was a step up in mentality, intensity and physicality I assumed you meant it was a step up.

 

[ncurd]

My bad, when you said "that fair" to a post that rightly said it was a step up in mentality, intensity and physicality I assumed you meant it was a step up.

I was agreeing with his second sentence which the rest of my post went on to clarify. ie its fair to say its equivalent of top end of the international game and a step up from a one off international game against top opposition.

 

[Which Tyler]

Worth noting - every Lions tour to South Africa (since they returned to international sport) has been with South Africa as current world champions (as were Aus in 2001 and NZ in 2017 - so 5 of the 9 tours since the RWC started).

That in itself raises the intensity of the challenge for any match (especially any match on the reigning champions home turf), whether as the Lions, or as individual nations.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I was agreeing with his second sentence which the rest of my post went on to clarify. ie its fair to say its equivalent of top end of the international game and a step up from a one off international game against top opposition.

Nah. Not for me. I think most of the players would say it's a step up too to be honest. Just in its uniqueness and what it means not only to our players but for the SH lads.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I'd say thats fair I would compare it with toughest tests of international rugby its certainly higher than an autumn international, but I'd have it up there with a summer series against those teams (if they happen) or a GS decider (and the game before) especially if both teams are up for it.

Yeah more or less this. I think the 2018 Ireland team and England's record winning streak and RWC team were playing at a higher level than the Lions in 2013 or 2017 as well. Similar in 09 where the Lions lost the tour at the earliest stage and SA came to Dublin targeting Ireland as GS champions and couldn't win against a team with Healy and Sexton starting and less than 5 caps between them.

 

[ncurd]

Yeah more or less this. I think the 2018 Ireland team and England's record winning streak and RWC team were playing at a higher level than the Lions in 2013 or 2017 as well. Similar in 09 where the Lions lost the tour at the earliest stage and SA came to Dublin targeting Ireland as GS champions and couldn't win against a team with Healy and Sexton starting and less than 5 caps between them.

Can go a lot further back to 2005, 2003 England win the world cup and in 2007 make the final. Absolutely wrecked by the AB's with a lot of those core players, even the coaching staff looks pretty good below Woodward. On paper that should of been a great series and it flat out didn't work at all.