Bok 23 RC 2014

[Big Ewis]

In no way should Alberts be selected over Coetzee. I am honestly not a huge fan of Willem, I said years ago, and standby it, that he is most useful off the bench. Can't honestly say I'd start Tendai and Jannie other than due to lack of a backup, but now is when Meyer needs to take the time to find some.

but...but.......the mass.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

In no way should Alberts be selected over Coetzee. I am honestly not a huge fan of Willem, I said years ago, and standby it, that he is most useful off the bench. Can't honestly say I'd start Tendai and Jannie other than due to lack of a backup, but now is when Meyer needs to take the time to find some.

Louw and Vermeulen are locked in. Alberts balances the force. Not that Coetzee can't add but I feel Louw and Vermeulen (and Bismarck) are already good enough on the deck though we could do with getting faster to the breakdown which Coetzee might do better- yes, I am arguing with myself BUT we need a carrier that'll give us go forward every time and while that can be done by Vermeulen or our tight 5 no-one in SA does it better than Alberts. Coetzee I see only as cover for Louw. I do think though that Alberts will be relegated to battling it out for a bench spot with Coetzee when Arno Botha is fit again. 6)Louw, 7)Botha, 8)Vermeulen.... delicious!

 

[Draggs]

I don't see how you can put Alberts in for Coetzee as 'balance'. Coetzee tackles and carries better. Alberts is heavier, that's it. Alberts handling is abysmal, ask any Sharks fan.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I don't see how you can put Alberts in for Coetzee as 'balance'. Coetzee tackles and carries better. Alberts is heavier, that's it. Alberts handling is abysmal, ask any Sharks fan.

But there is a big difference between test rugby and Super rugby and Alberts has taken his chances in a green jersey whereas Coetzee hasn't. That said, on current form, yes, Coetzee is better as a player overall but I still think Alberts brings something we need. Some more hard edge where Coetzee would bring some more work rate. I suppose it depends on what you see us as needing and against what opposition.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I don't see how you can put Alberts in for Coetzee as 'balance'. Coetzee tackles and carries better. Alberts is heavier, that's it. Alberts handling is abysmal, ask any Sharks fan.

Coetzee is a fetcher like Flouw, whereas Willem is a better blindside flanker than Marcell.

Also, you should'nt compare their form in SR to their Bok-form, as Willem hardly ever has a poor game in a Springbok jumper. I will pick Willem over Marcell every day of the week.

 

[SomeOke]

Pretty much an expected squad (which is not a bad thing) with the added treat of having Reinach and de Allende included unfortunately I'm pretty sure Pienaar will be the incumbent scrumhalf with Hougard covering wing and scrummie from the bench, not that that's necessarily a bad thing, Pienaar is underrated by saffers and as much as I love Reinach, we'd have to change the way we play with his inclusion to a large degree. In the end I think we can be fairly certain FdP is going to be the WC option.

As for the inclusion of de Allende, a player that makes my nethers feel funny he's so good, I feel he has a much higher chance of seeing some game time as their are only three centres actually included with F Steyn and Jpp not making the cut.

As for the who to partner with Flouw and Vermulen debate, my first instinct was to say Willem is the more explosive carrier but the stats seem to suggest I am wrong, with Marcell firmly beating him in carrying and tackling. I guess the only argument for his inclusion is the "nonu variable" meaning he always performs in a bok jersey. He certainly has terrible handling (and rule 5 on my living room wall states: 5) Consume full contents when Willem knocks on the ball. ) but I've always considered his gain line performance to be worth it. I'm willing to be proven wrong in this.

It's hard to say anything with just the squad announcement as it really could be anything, at this stage I'd say in our back-line Jean, Habana, Cornel and Willie are nailed on as starters but the rest is anyone's guess as for the forward pack there is some debate over who will start at 6 and 4 but we have a lot of quality in those areas and I don't really mind who starts.

The following squad is the one I think we will get, with the most likely choice in my opinion in bold:

1. Beast
2. Bis
3. Jannie
4. Lood/Eben/Bakkies
5. Vic
6. Alberts/Coetze
7. Flouw
8. Vermulen
9. Pienaar/Hougard
10. M Steyn/ Pollard
11. Habs
12. Jean/Serf
13. Jean/de Allende
14. Hendriks
15. le Roux

16. Straus
17. Trev/Guthro
18. Malherbe
19. Lood/Eben/Bakkies
20. Alberts/Coetze
21. Pienaar/Hougard
22. Lambie
23. de Allende/Mvovo/Serf


Edit: As saffers what are we looking for this RC? Last year we beat everyone except the All Blacks, in the year so the logical improvement is a home win against NZ, but with Aus looking dangerous I would probably accept away losses to Aus and NZ if we can then get home wins against them. Although beating Aus home and away would be nice . Winning the RC is probably too greedy and I don't want to get my hopes up haha.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Edit: As saffers what are we looking for this RC? Last year we beat everyone except the All Blacks, in the year so the logical improvement is a home win against NZ, but with Aus looking dangerous I would probably accept away losses to Aus and NZ if we can then get home wins against them. Although beating Aus home and away would be nice . Winning the RC is probably too greedy and I don't want to get my hopes up haha.

Well, it depends. We are now starting the "World Cup Year - Cycle". So there are a few things to focus on. For me it would be to keep on getting the core team in preparation for the WC, while still winning most of the games.

This squad that HM picked, is IMHO the best squad he could've picked for this tournament, with a good balance of youth and experience mixed in there. We have the Big guys that can do the business, while not losing out on pace and creativity.

I can't find fault in the squad, while others will/do.

My expectation is to win everything on home soil. 2 games are on the Highveld at Loftus and Ellis Park, with the test Against the Aussies at Newlands. Which might also be great due to the underfoot conditions being slippery making their backline less potent.

As for the touring tests, it's going to be tough, but we got a lucky break in having to play the Aussies in Perth and then the All Blacks in Wellington. Both places where we have won in the past.

This team, CAN win all the games. The question is if they are going to click on the day.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Edit: As saffers what are we looking for this RC? Last year we beat everyone except the All Blacks, in the year so the logical improvement is a home win against NZ, but with Aus looking dangerous I would probably accept away losses to Aus and NZ if we can then get home wins against them. Although beating Aus home and away would be nice . Winning the RC is probably too greedy and I don't want to get my hopes up haha.

Win every game.

 

[TRF_heineken]

I just read this interesting article:

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Springboks/No-Bok-lifeline-for-Kockott-20140805

And this stood out for me:

"We've tried all the candidates now, so after this I will stick with three nines going forward," Meyer said, finally ending the debate on Kockott and the Bok team.

Basically HM has now been shopping around, and used FdP's injury to narrow down the list of prospects for the very important role of scrumhalf.

I have to say, I like this as this has been a topic of much discussion in the past, and in all honesty, I think HM has got the best of the crop there. But it makes me wonder what the hell was the plan with Louis Schreuder.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Ja, Schreuder was a funny selection. FdP remains our best option but I really hope Hougie and Reinach can step up... they just need to play their own game; get there quickly and either pass or snipe now and then but please, don't kick, don't even look to kick because you guys can't! Just ship the ball quicky to Pollard.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Juan Smith has been drafted into the Bok squad after Victor Matfield got injured in training on Monday.

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/RugbyChampionship/Juan-Smith-drafted-into-Bok-squad-20140806

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

So Matfield out and JdV likely out and suddenly we are very thin in the leadership department. BdP/Strauss or Louw the likeliest candidates.

Juan Smith coming in might be a captaincy option but I don't think that is the plan. I expect he was called up as a direct replacement for Matfield as an experienced player and lock cover.

I'd expect now:

1 Mtawarira/Steenkamp
2 Du Plessis
3 Malherbe
4 Etzebeth
5 Smith
6 Louw (c)
7 Alberts
8 Vermeulen
9 Hougaard
10 Steyn
11 Habana
12 Serfontein
13 De Allende
14 Hendricks
15 Le Roux

16 Strauss
17 Steenkamp/Nyakane
18 De Jager
19 Coetzee
20 Pienaar
21 Pollard
22 Lambie
23 Du Plessis/Nyakane

I am not sure what the situation is with the ****les Beast and JdP are carrying? I wouldn't mind seeing Marcel van der Merwe (TH) and/or Thomas du Toit (LH) getting look ins.

 

[TRF_heineken]

So Matfield out and JdV likely out and suddenly we are very thin in the leadership department. BdP/Strauss or Louw the likeliest candidates.

Juan Smith coming in might be a captaincy option but I don't think that is the plan. I expect he was called up as a direct replacement for Matfield as an experienced player and lock cover.

I'd expect now:

1 Mtawarira/Steenkamp
2 Du Plessis
3 Malherbe
4 Etzebeth
5 Smith
6 Louw (c)
7 Alberts
8 Vermeulen
9 Hougaard
10 Steyn
11 Habana
12 Serfontein
13 De Allende
14 Hendricks
15 Le Roux

16 Strauss
17 Steenkamp/Nyakane
18 De Jager
19 Coetzee
20 Pienaar
21 Pollard
22 Lambie
23 Du Plessis/Nyakane

I am not sure what the situation is with the ****les Beast and JdP are carrying? I wouldn't mind seeing Marcel van der Merwe (TH) and/or Thomas du Toit (LH) getting look ins.

From what I read, the captaincy is between Flouw and Bismarck, and that Lood will fill in Vic's spot.

My guess for the first match 23 would be similar to the one that finished against Scotland earlier, with a few tweaks:

1. Beast
2. Bismarck
3. Jannie Du Plessis
4. Eben Etzebeth
5. Lood De Jager
6. Francois Louw
7. Willem Alberts
8. Duane Vermeulen
9. Francois Hougaard
10. Handre Pollard
11. Bryan Habana
12. Jan Serfontein
13. Damian De Allende
14. Cornal Hendricks
15. Willie Le Roux

16. Adriaan Strauss
17. Gurthro Steenkamp
18. Frans Malherbe
19. Juan Smith
20. Marcell Coetzee
21. Ruan Pienaar
22. Pat Lambie / Morne Steyn
23. Lwazi Mvovo

 

[Sam Owen]

Good to see Pollard in the mix. I reckon he goes good.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

From what I read, the captaincy is between Flouw and Bismarck, and that Lood will fill in Vic's spot.

My guess for the first match 23 would be similar to the one that finished against Scotland earlier, with a few tweaks:

1. Beast
2. Bismarck
3. Jannie Du Plessis
4. Eben Etzebeth
5. Lood De Jager
6. Francois Louw
7. Willem Alberts
8. Duane Vermeulen
9. Francois Hougaard
10. Handre Pollard
11. Bryan Habana
12. Jan Serfontein
13. Damian De Allende
14. Cornal Hendricks
15. Willie Le Roux

16. Adriaan Strauss
17. Gurthro Steenkamp
18. Frans Malherbe
19. Juan Smith
20. Marcell Coetzee
21. Ruan Pienaar
22. Pat Lambie / Morne Steyn
23. Lwazi Mvovo

Well, I'd be overjoyed if those in bold started ahead of the likes of Pienaar, Bakkies Botha/J Smith, Styen etc.

Personally I'd hope for Malherbe ahead of J du Plessis as well.

Scotland B, Argentina home, Argentina away and then the big rivals.. sounds like as good a road map to cementing a spot as those players (except De Allende who missed Scotland) could hope for.

 

[SomeOke]

From what I read, the captaincy is between Flouw and Bismarck, and that Lood will fill in Vic's spot.

My guess for the first match 23 would be similar to the one that finished against Scotland earlier, with a few tweaks:

1. Beast
2. Bismarck
3. Jannie Du Plessis
4. Eben Etzebeth
5. Lood De Jager
6. Francois Louw
7. Willem Alberts
8. Duane Vermeulen
9. Francois Hougaard
10. Handre Pollard
11. Bryan Habana
12. Jan Serfontein
13. Damian De Allende
14. Cornal Hendricks
15. Willie Le Roux

16. Adriaan Strauss
17. Gurthro Steenkamp
18. Frans Malherbe
19. Juan Smith
20. Marcell Coetzee
21. Ruan Pienaar
22. Pat Lambie / Morne Steyn
23. Lwazi Mvovo

Love this team but I think we'll see less youth in the end, I'm not sure Pollard and Hougard are above Steyn and Pienaar in the pecking order (yet). Personally I'd be happy to see them get a run on from the bench, in the end Pollard has only been tested against a weak Scottish side at home, as much as I think he's got loads of potential. I'd be happy with your line-up with the old half-back pairing and de Allende starting at least for the short term, and I think it's more likely.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

De Jager has showed enough promise to start and TBH there are enough settled starters in the pack to warrant further trusting in him. In the backs though I also expect some sort of mix between the old and new. If FdP and JdV were fit I wouldn't be surprised to see Pollard and De Allende start. As is I'd be pleasantly surprised if Steyn (not that I have anything against him currently; just want Pollard to get as much time as possible in the 'easier games') weren't starting. Pienaar... man. boy, oh boy, Pienaar..

 

[Draggs]

When did Juan Smith become a second row?

Meyer said he was pleased with Lewies against Scotland, but they aren't a quality opposition.
Pollard also played against this side, and is in the squad...

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

When did Juan Smith become a second row?

Meyer said he was pleased with Lewies against Scotland, but they aren't a quality opposition.
Pollard also played against this side, and is in the squad...

Now, now, don't be upset because a young Sharks player has been dropped. You don't see me *****ing about Siya Kolisi being replaced by Coetzee who is the better player ATM do you? Etzebeth is back and as per below HM has stated that he wanted to bring in someone who could cover the backrow as well which makes sense especially because the player won't feature in a starting role so the versatility is a bonus on top of Smith being an experienced player with established leadership qualities so is the ideal replacement for Matfield.

And you should know Smith has played at lock for both SA and the Cheetahs numerous times.

"Our need at this stage is to draft in a player who can cover lock and loose forward, and we feel Juan is the right man for the job,"
Meyer said in a press release from South Africa Rugby. "He has played lock before in his career and won an Under-21 World Cup in that position, but he also covers flank and number 8. I spoke to him on various occasions and he's comfortable with playing in the second row again if the need arises.

 

[Draggs]

I understand, I am just surprised Smith would be used as international second row cover, especially after a long absence. Based on recent form, he is a great addition, but as a flanker.

Furthermore, purely as second row balance, Lewies would make sense, as more of a lineout operator while de Jage/Etzebeth add the power.