Bok 23 RC 2014

[TRF_heineken]

I'm happy Aplon will be available for us but I don't consider him for the bokke; too old now and moving to France.

I Could we have this thread moved to the RC section, ADMINS?


In other news seems like FdP is out of the RC (3 months);
http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_9367601,00.html

We should see this as a blessing in that we will be forced to develop our options now (unless HM plans to persist with Pienaar and/or Hougaard).

Yeah, bad news indeed. but HM won't go with just 2 scrummies... let's hope he gives Reinach a shot.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Yeah, bad news indeed. but HM won't go with just 2 scrummies... let's hope he gives Reinach a shot.

Hougaard probably has the inside track what with having played with Pollard at the Bulls (not to mention M Steyn) but, yes, if we don't have Reinach on the bench at least I would be very disappointed. I just hope Pienaar gets the drop; we don't need our 9 bench spot to cover 10/15 as well.

Interesting article by Planetrugby.com though I am depressed that Cobus Reinach gets no paragraph underneath his name. I fear the staff on the site have the pecking order all too accurately penned there. That said, HM has picked a bolter or two in the past so I'll just continue to hope..

With first-choice scrum-half Fourie du Preez out of The Rugby Championship, Springbok coach Heyneke Meyer must assess his options.None of the players below offer the complete expertise of the World Cup winner, hence his domination of the Bok number nine jersey since making his debut in 2004, winning 70 caps in that time despite a near-two-year absence as he recharged his batteries in Japan.
But with Du Preez sidelined for three months with an ankle injury, the Springboks now have to look elsewhere.
Here are the contenders to step in.
Ruan Pienaar (Ulster)
Royalty and religion are two subjects best avoided in Ulster, but Pienaar's status around the revamped Ravenhill ramparts do not fall far short of both king and deity in Belfast.
In the green and gold of South Africa, however, it has often been a different story. Derided as slow and sluggish to deliver ball from the breakdown, Pienaar has never really made the Springbok number nine jersey his own; even from Japan, Du Preez casts quite the shadow.
Over half of his 76 Tests since 2006 have come from the bench; his own versatility on top of the brilliance of his rival having hindered that particular statistic.
There is no doubt Pienaar's game management and leadership have improved drastically since his arrival on UK shores. But with Du Preez's slick service, nous and awareness so key to the Springbok game-plan, Ulster's South African saviour is still widely regarded across his homeland as little more than a safe pair of hands.
Francois Hougaard (Bulls)
Best described as a livewire, Hougaard boasts great speed and has professed his desire to remain at scrum-half rather than on the wing, where his pace has also been put to good use.
Pienaar may be the much-fancied heir apparent to Du Preez's throne, but the Bulls man knows Morne Steyn's game well and would form a highly dangerous partnership with Pollard.
His temperament can be called into question, but his service is excellent, his kicking ever-improving and his threat with ball in hand greater than that offered by the Ulster nine. But the Boks often lose shape with Hougaard pulling the strings, which is not ideal early on.
Hougaard should push Pienaar all the way for a starting berth, but his selection will ultimately depend on the opposition, the game-plan and just how adventurous the Springbok management are feeling.
Rory Kockott (Castres)
After two years of headline-grabbing performances in France, calls for the Castres playmaker's selection have been growing amongst South African fans, but it's highly unlikely he will be considered, despite his outstanding place-kicking skills.
Meyer has never openly said 'no' but reading between the lines of the Bok mentor's comments on the subject, the conclusion must be that if it was ever going to happen, it would have by now.
Kockott's personality could well be a sticking point - big egos don't last long in Meyer's setup, as was the case with the scrum-half's former Sharks team-mate, Keegan Daniel.
Louis Schreuder (Stormers)
Regarded as a long-term candidate for the Springboks, Schreuder has clearly caught the attention of Meyer in the past judging by his continued inclusion in recent Springbok squads. While little separates the uncapped Schreuder from the rest of the pack, Meyer noteworthily stated that Schreuder "fits in with the way we want to play."
The 24-year-old from Paarl is a longshot having only just returned to training with the Stormers from a fractured thumb, but was selected for the November Tests in Europe last year to the surprise of some critics. His undercooked outing in last year's Currie Cup Final didn't help to win them over.
Depending on if he proves his fitness for the Stormers in the next two weeks, he may feature.
Piet van Zyl (Bulls)
The 24-year-old's move away from Bloemfontein to join the Bulls has done his international prospects no good. After a stellar Super Rugby season with the Cheetahs in 2013 that led to his first two caps for the Boks, he has fallen off the radar as he spends most of his time in Pretoria on the bench. Van Zyl would combine wonderfully with former team-mate Willie le Roux, but it's hard to see him considered given his lack of game time.
The list extends beyond those four candidates with others in the frame. Cobus Reinachhas excelled for the Sharks under Jake White.
Lions upstart number nine Faf de Klerk has caught the eye but is some way short of the chasing pack, while Jano Vermaak hasn't appeared for the Boks since last year's Rugby Championship. Sarel Pretorius, back in South Africa with the Cheetahs, is uncapped, the wrong side of 30 and arguably too erratic for Meyer's taste.

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3551_9368006,00.html

A screenshot of the poll as it stood when I voted (for Reinach). Interesting to see so many votes for Pienaar and Kockott but I suppose it is a Euro-centric website after all;



Just so damn typical that the news of FdP being out comes right after we all agree he is probably the most key player for us..

 

[Draggs]

Anybody who pushes for Pienaar at international level hasn't watched him play for the Boks recently.
Who is better between Schreuder and Groom? I always get the two mixed up. Since Ricky boy has left, I found WP scrum halves lacking in comedy.

Cobus has been good for us, despite those with grudges against him. He is a bit raw, so maybe he could do with some other input.

Pollard was good from what I've seen, but solid is the best way I'd describe him. Lambie has always been solid for Boks, even in developing sides (2012) but lacks the hype

 

[Darwin]

Anybody who pushes for Pienaar at international level hasn't watched him play for the Boks recently.
Who is better between Schreuder and Groom? I always get the two mixed up. Since Ricky boy has left, I found WP scrum halves lacking in comedy.

Cobus has been good for us, despite those with grudges against him. He is a bit raw, so maybe he could do with some other input.

Pollard was good from what I've seen, but solid is the best way I'd describe him. Lambie has always been solid for Boks, even in developing sides (2012) but lacks the hype

I have watched Pienaar play for the Boks recently, and I'm all for him to starting against the ABs

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Anybody who pushes for Pienaar at international level hasn't watched him play for the Boks recently.
Who is better between Schreuder and Groom? I always get the two mixed up. Since Ricky boy has left, I found WP scrum halves lacking in comedy.

Cobus has been good for us, despite those with grudges against him. He is a bit raw, so maybe he could do with some other input.

Pollard was good from what I've seen, but solid is the best way I'd describe him. Lambie has always been solid for Boks, even in developing sides (2012) but lacks the hype

Lambie's had a few chances at 10 and not taken them IMO.

Reinach certainly has a lot of upshots. With a guy like Handre Pollard- even allowing for hype- more than capable of making the decisions at 10 we can afford a 9 who's only there for quick delivery off the base of the ruck. Add Reinach's bullishness in defense and harassment of opposition ball and he is like a good Ricky Januarie. Just imagine that; a 9 and 10 for SA for whom defense is actually a strength!

Groom and Schreuder I see as on the same levell TBH and both have a lot of work cut out. Schreuder is like an unrefined and at times error prone FdP whereas Groom reminds me of Charl McLeod...

I'm not even gonna name 'the Tiger Woods of rugby'. I've come to hope that if we don't call his name so often (even in derision) maybe he'll leave us alone.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Lambie's had a few chances at 10 and not taken them IMO.

Reinach certainly has a lot of upshots. With a guy like Handre Pollard- even allowing for hype- more than capable of making the decisions at 10 we can afford a 9 who's only there for quick delivery off the base of the ruck. Add Reinach's bullishness in defense and harassment of opposition ball and he is like a good Ricky Januarie. Just imagine that; a 9 and 10 for SA for whom defense is actually a strength!

Groom and Schreuder I see as on the same levell TBH and both have a lot of work cut out. Schreuder is like an unrefined and at times error prone FdP whereas Groom reminds me of Charl McLeod...

I'm not even gonna name 'the Tiger Woods of rugby'. I've come to hope that if we don't call his name so often (even in derision) maybe he'll leave us alone.

Yup!

I see Reinach in the same frame of mind as I see Aaron Smith for the All Blacks. He might have his off days for the Sharks/Highlanders but when he needs to step up, he will/does. I think Reinach will be a very nice fit in this ever evolving Springbok team.

 

[Draggs]

Lambie's had a few chances at 10 and not taken them IMO.

Reinach certainly has a lot of upshots. With a guy like Handre Pollard- even allowing for hype- more than capable of making the decisions at 10 we can afford a 9 who's only there for quick delivery off the base of the ruck. Add Reinach's bullishness in defense and harassment of opposition ball and he is like a good Ricky Januarie. Just imagine that; a 9 and 10 for SA for whom defense is actually a strength!

Groom and Schreuder I see as on the same levell TBH and both have a lot of work cut out. Schreuder is like an unrefined and at times error prone FdP whereas Groom reminds me of Charl McLeod...

I'm not even gonna name 'the Tiger Woods of rugby'. I've come to hope that if we don't call his name so often (even in derision) maybe he'll leave us alone.

I don't know, he hasn't been given a consistent shot. One test in the awful 2011 3N away side. He had three tests in late 2012 after being messed around by the Sharks at 15. One test last year as well. Meyer has said he hopes Lambie is played exclusively at 10, so I don't think he is writing him off fully.
Cobus makes mistakes, but if he can be refined a bit, I can see him as a lethal scrumhalf.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Lambie is one of those guys that suffer due to their versatility but just hasn't looked comfortable in his supposed prefered position for teh Bokke. In fact I'd say the most comfortable his looked for us was at 15. Maybe it the added pressure that comes with the 10 jersey but for my money he's had his chances. Just look at how assured Pollard looked starting. Now Scotland B team is not a team to fear but it's still a debut Bok pivot test start and the guy didn't flinch. Goosen also looked the business in his very first test. It's a cut-throat business and you only get so much chances (unless your surname is Pienaar or Kirchner).

I see FdP is out for the entre year with his ankle injury being worse than initially feared. Really hope Reinach gets called up even if only to get him used to the environment and get him up to speed to what would be required of him; not that I would want him not to be allowed to play his own game mind you.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Lambie is one of those guys that suffer due to their versatility but just hasn't looked comfortable in his supposed prefered position for teh Bokke. In fact I'd say the most comfortable his looked for us was at 15. Maybe it the added pressure that comes with the 10 jersey but for my money he's had his chances. Just look at how assured Pollard looked starting. Now Scotland B team is not a team to fear but it's still a debut Bok pivot test start and the guy didn't flinch. Goosen also looked the business in his very first test. It's a cut-throat business and you only get so much chances (unless your surname is Pienaar or Kirchner).

I see FdP is out for the entre year with his ankle injury being worse than initially feared. Really hope Reinach gets called up even if only to get him used to the environment and get him up to speed to what would be required of him; not that I would want him not to be allowed to play his own game mind you.

You know, now that Pollard, Boshoff and Goosen has all got a shot at 10, I don't think Lambie will be used in that slot again by HM. And I'm all for it that he rather reverts back to the fullback slot. We have Willie there yes, but not a proper back-up. And Lambie can be that stop-gap. His kicking will also provide a good back-up plan in case our fly halves have an off day, as well as tactical kicking in tight games where territory plays a big role.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Lambie's role will be utility, yes. Sharks fans will moan but that is the reality.

Speaking of teh Sharks, I just heard over the radio that Beast is still nursing a neck injury and won't travel along for the SR semi against the Crusaders. It's gonna be a good test for Thomas du Toit going up against an actual scrum this time round and specifically getting a crack at Ben Franks. That will be what I am looking at this weekend. If he can get in another good performace... well, a lot of 'ifs' and only time will tell but I for one am excited and am wondering whether we might be looking at a 2nd Junior Bok making a start for the seniors this year still! Lewies against Whitelock another mouth watering encounter and possible preview of the test games looming..

 

[Big Ewis]

sooooo, seems like the Boks are interested in Mr. Juan Smith again, ayyy ?. Alright alright, we'll lend him to you but don't spoil him okay, we need him nice and healthy for next season here...

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

sooooo, seems like the Boks are interested in Mr. Juan Smith again, ayyy ?. Alright alright, we'll lend him to you but don't spoil him okay, we need him nice and healthy for next season here...

Interesting. I havn't read anything here to that effect. I can't say I'd ever turn down a fit Juan Smith, a guy I have stated is possibly the best Bok in the last 20 years. I know he is highly rated but that still falls short of what he actually means to a Bok team. That said I can't see him as anything other than a stop-gap ATM with Arno Botha injured. And not really a very needed stop gap with Alberts and Burger able to fulfill that role at blind-side.

 

[johnny1991]

Breast
Bismarck
Jannie
Victor
Lood
Francios louw
Schalk
Daune
Pienaar
Steyn
Habana
Jean
Jp
Hendricks
Willie

Adriaan
Steenkamp
Coenie
Lewies
Alberts
Hougaard
Pollard
Serfontein

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Breast
Bismarck
Jannie
Victor
Lood
Francios louw
Schalk
Daune
Pienaar
Steyn
Habana
Jean
Jp
Hendricks
Willie

Adriaan
Steenkamp
Coenie
Lewies
Alberts
Hougaard
Pollard
Serfontein

Haha! Add Pienaar and I nealy shat myself! I do assume though you aren't looking at players avaiable right at this moment? I mean, no Etzebeth? But then that should rule out Breast... so not sure what to make of this..

 

[johnny1991]

Beast will be ready for RC ... he is still touch and go at the sharks but will be avaible to boks

 

[nickdnz]

I'd love to see this kid Thomas du Toit get be a bolter. He's still so young, but if he can scrummage again like he did against the Highlanders (who admittedly have a very weak scrum) against other opposition, he could be a force for many years to come. Will be interesting to see him against Owen Franks. If he can get the better of him verse the Crusaders, you'd have to think HM will take a look at him for the RC considering he'll likely be up against Franks again.

 

[johnny1991]

Thomas indeed is a strong lad an look like a future superstar

 

[TRF_heineken]

I'd love to see this kid Thomas du Toit get be a bolter. He's still so young, but if he can scrummage again like he did against the Highlanders (who admittedly have a very weak scrum) against other opposition, he could be a force for many years to come. Will be interesting to see him against Owen Franks. If he can get the better of him verse the Crusaders, you'd have to think HM will take a look at him for the RC considering he'll likely be up against Franks again.

I like this kid a lot. I hear they call him Thomas the Tank Engine. He certainly steamrolled the opposition in his last 2 games. It would be a real bonus for HM if this guy keeps performing against the Crusaders and then possibly another team if the Sharks reach the finals before HM can pick the squad. Prop is one of the areas I still feel we are not where we should be, and with ***ties, I mean, Beast possibly still being out by the start of the tournament, this kid could just be what we need.

 

[johnny1991]

Well this kid i feel is doing a better job than beast ... look how the sharks scrum improved

 

[TRF_heineken]

So the news reports are that the Bok Squad will only be announced on 2 August after the finals of the Super Rugby.

Toulon has also announced that Bakkies Botha, Juan Smith and Bryan Habana will be available for the Bok training squad which will be from the 4th of August to the 8th of August.