Bok 23 RC 2014

[TRF_stormer2010]

Beast will be ready for RC ... he is still touch and go at the sharks but will be avaible to boks

Okay, I was unsure what criteria you used because Etzebeth is also quite likely to be ready for RC action.

I'd love to see this kid Thomas du Toit get be a bolter. He's still so young, but if he can scrummage again like he did against the Highlanders (who admittedly have a very weak scrum) against other opposition, he could be a force for many years to come. Will be interesting to see him against Owen Franks. If he can get the better of him verse the Crusaders, you'd have to think HM will take a look at him for the RC considering he'll likely be up against Franks again.

I am certainly going to pay attention to how the young lad fares against better quality opposition but couldn't help to get excited by his contributions for the Sharks against- like you said- an atmittedly poorish Highlanders scrum. Highlanders having the 2nd lowest scrum success in SR whereas the Crusaders have a 2% better success rate than the Sharks and are at home so you expect them to get the benefit of those 50/50 calls. If he can perform on the weekend then I too expect HM's hand to have been forced. Big ask though!!

 

[johnny1991]

Point taken ... i will replace lewies with ezebeth

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

haha i'd love to see that nearly legendary XV i would usually pick on the RWC 2011 game if i was south africa

1.) The Beast
2.) B. du Plessis
3.) Steenkamp
4.) Botha
5.) Matfield
6.) Burger
7.) Smith
8.) Spies
9.) Du Preez
10.) M. Steyn
11.) Habana
12.) de Villiers
13.) Fourie
14.) pietersen
15.) F. Steyn

those were the days

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

haha i'd love to see that nearly legendary XV i would usually pick on the RWC 2011 game if i was south africa

1.) The Beast
2.) B. du Plessis
3.) Steenkamp
4.) Botha
5.) Matfield
6.) Burger
7.) Smith
8.) Spies
9.) Du Preez
10.) M. Steyn
11.) Habana
12.) de Villiers
13.) Fourie
14.) pietersen
15.) F. Steyn

those were the days

You might, most SA fans wouldn't LOL. Particularly Steenkamp out of position at TH and Spies back would be a travesty!

 

[johnny1991]

I wont even be suprised to see that team taking the field

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I wont even be suprised to see that team taking the field

Willie le Roux, Francois Louw, Duane Vermeulen and Eben Etzebeth are guys I'd be very surprised if they weren't starting. Willem Alberts probably too. Lood de Jager, Handre Pollard and Cornal Hendricks have done enough to warrant at least good long consideration and I'd be surprised if currently unavaiable guys like PS du Toit, Arno Botha, Damian de Allende and Frans Malherbe don't get a look in again (De Allende was all but penciled in prior to injury) when fit.

And even if I think they need to do more to secure their places, HM probably wouldn't simply drop the likes of Oosthuizen, Serfontein and Lambie but I do get where you are coming from looking at the line-ups of the November series.

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

but nah this is the team i'd pick

1.) the beast
2.) du plessis
3.) Malherbe
4.) Kruger
5.) Etzebeth
6.) Coetzee
7.) Vermulen
8.) Whitely
9.) Du Preez
10.) Pollard
11.) Habana
12.) Serfontein
13.) de Allende
14.) Hendricks
15.) le Roux

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

but nah this is the team i'd pick

1.) the beast
2.) du plessis
3.) Malherbe
4.) Kruger
5.) Etzebeth
6.) Coetzee
7.) Vermulen
8.) Whitely
9.) Du Preez
10.) Pollard
11.) Habana
12.) Serfontein
13.) de Allende
14.) Hendricks
15.) le Roux

You seem to know a lot about the form of SA players. +1

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

yes i do...... from the wales games offcourse and no other

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

but you see this is what i like about the south african part in this forum, if i make a team i'll get a reputation point i dont seem to get one anywhere else btw thank you stormer

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

but you see this is what i like about the south african part in this forum, if i make a team i'll get a reputation point i dont seem to get one anywhere else btw thank you stormer

Your welcome.

Are you serious you got that XV only off the Wales games alone? I suppose you watched some Super rugby then to add De Allende, Whiteley, Coetzee and Malherbe? Your team is not too far off the mark and most fans I suspect wouldn't argue overly much with it. I mean, dropping F Louw and Alberts are big calls but Coetzee and Whiteley are in brilliant form ATM. Personally I'd be a bit concerned about the relative inexperience of 10 Pollard, 12 Serfontein, 13 De Allende and would probably take Serfontein out for a more experienced player like JdV or F Steyn if he could get his head right (big IF!) but I can't fault it.

 

[TRF_heineken]

Your welcome.

Are you serious you got that XV only off the Wales games alone? I suppose you watched some Super rugby then to add De Allende, Whiteley, Coetzee and Malherbe? Your team is not too far off the mark and most fans I suspect wouldn't argue overly much with it. I mean, dropping F Louw and Alberts are big calls but Coetzee and Whiteley are in brilliant form ATM. Personally I'd be a bit concerned about the relative inexperience of 10 Pollard, 12 Serfontein, 13 De Allende and would probably take Serfontein out for a more experienced player like JdV or F Steyn if he could get his head right (big IF!) but I can't fault it.

Well JDV will be fit and ready when the RC starts, and it's a good thing we start off against the Argies at Loftus. It will give our captain a good run to shake off the cobwebs. I'm just wondering how it will change the shape of the backline. Will JDV play 12 or 13?? and who will be his pairing centre?? If JDV plays 13, then Serfontein is a shoe-in for the 12 spot. But if JDV plays 12, it leaves us with Pietersen, De Allende, JDJ, and to a lesser extent Engelbrecht to move in at 13.

With this, it's clear that we have for some strange reason a bunch of good 13's all of a sudden, and might just be a bit short at 12...

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Well JDV will be fit and ready when the RC starts, and it's a good thing we start off against the Argies at Loftus. It will give our captain a good run to shake off the cobwebs. I'm just wondering how it will change the shape of the backline. Will JDV play 12 or 13?? and who will be his pairing centre?? If JDV plays 13, then Serfontein is a shoe-in for the 12 spot. But if JDV plays 12, it leaves us with Pietersen, De Allende, JDJ, and to a lesser extent Engelbrecht to move in at 13.

With this, it's clear that we have for some strange reason a bunch of good 13's all of a sudden, and might just be a bit short at 12...

I havn't heard any recent updates on the Stormers' injuries but it was expected that both De Allende and Etzebeth would also be passed fit for the RC. That on top of JdV being fit makes for some interesting selection problems..

9 is FdP if fit but we really need to bring in a new face here IMO and only play FdP against Aus and NZ
10 Steyn is the incumbent/go to man but I really do hope with Goosen off to Europe and Lambie not having fully taken his chances that Pollard gets a start against Arg at home and get at least some responsibility further as well looking ahead.
11 Habana is the shoe-in if fit but we could look at bringing in De Allende from the wings and move him in later.
12 JdV as captain but we have options with De Allende, Serfontein, F Steyn (but I've lost faith really)
13 could be JdV if we go with Serfontein at 12 or De Allende- I wouldn't go with Serfontein/De Allende in the midfield both starting yet as I think Pollard at 10 is more critical. I don't see JPP as a long term option at 13 even if he didn't fail there. There are other option but this is all I'm going to mention as I see the others (Jaque Fourie, Sithole, Engelbrecht, De Jongh) as dead ends at this stage working towards 2015.
14 We could again look at De Allende and then there are JPP and Hendricks..
15 Le Roux. It can only be Le Roux starting with Lambie as back-up

In the forwards we've done well to develop depth in many areas- mostly forced due to injury- but I think the pecking order is quite clear even if I feel current form should be considered as well.

My picks:

9 FdP
10 Pollard/Steyn alternating depending on the opposition though I won't totally keep Pollard away from NZ
11 Habana
12 JdV (c) - JdV is a much better 12 than 13 and I want him between the guys I think are more important to develop ATM
13 De Allende
14 Hendricks
15 Le Roux

20 Reinach - not a star but I want to see what he can contribute at a higher level
21 Lambie
22 JPP

 

[TRF_heineken]

You should take out Frans Steyn out of the equation completely. I don't think he'll be in the mix for the RC. His fight with SARU is a very valid one, and until SARU doesn't make good, he won't play for the Bokke. Frans is very angry at why he has to play in SA to qualify for the Bokke while guys like Flouw can still ply their trade in the NH.

Otherwise I think I'm in agreement with you on the team. With Lambie back, we have more versatility.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

You should take out Frans Steyn out of the equation completely. I don't think he'll be in the mix for the RC. His fight with SARU is a very valid one, and until SARU doesn't make good, he won't play for the Bokke. Frans is very angry at why he has to play in SA to qualify for the Bokke while guys like Flouw can still ply their trade in the NH.

Otherwise I think I'm in agreement with you on the team. With Lambie back, we have more versatility.

I can understand Frans being ****** at SARU over money but I just feel he shouldn't get back in purely because of the way he handled things; to me there is a seperation between the jersey and the administration when speaking about the Springbokke; yes, it is a legal entity with staff but at the same time it is an emblem of your country/people. Pulling out at the last minute putting all kinds of pressure on HM and the team is just not cool in my book. Do your duty and sort the 'office' stuff out behind the scenes even if it takes legal action but if your country needs you, put that **** aside for later.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Springboks/Eben-welcomes-Bok-competition-20140730

Etzebeth confirmed as ready; I always prefer the player's own saying so. So, some good selection posers for us at lock; Lood de Jager has taken his chances with both arms, Matfield is still good enough, Etzebeth is a shoe-in, Lewies arguably the form SA lock in SR this year and we shouldn't totally forget PSdT while he is out injured..

For me, I'd have no problem with one of two line-ups;

4)Etzebeth, 5)Matfield, 18)De Jager for important games or 4)De Jager, 5)Etzebeth, 18)Lewies for... dare I say it.. Argentina. I really mean no disrespect and it is more a case of weighing your options and benefits; Matfield we have to accept needs as much off time as possible while giving opportunities to De Jager and a few minutes against Argentina can only be good for developing our options at lock; a position where we regularly suffer injuries. I see Etzebeth, De Jager and two of Matfield/PSdT/Lewies going to England in 2015. I think Flip has done well last year filling in but really we have better options and Flip's love of yellow can be a problem in tight games. I don't see Botha and Matfield as legitimate options even towards 2015 if PSdT and Lewies are fit and have been given chances at test level (assuming they live up to what they have shown elsewhere).

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Springbok squad announced;

Forwards (17)
Willem Alberts, Bakkies Botha, Schalk Brits, Marcell Coetzee, Lodewyk de Jager, Bismarck du Plessis, Jannie du Plessis, Eben Etzebeth, Francois Louw, Frans Malherbe, Victor Matfield, Teboho "Oupa" Mohoje, Tendai Mtawarira, Trevor Nyakane, Gurthrö Steenkamp, Adriaan Strauss, Duane Vermeulen

Backline (13)
Damian de Allende, Jean de Villiers (captain), Bryan Habana, Cornal Hendricks, Francois Hougaard, Patrick Lambie, Willie le Roux, Lwazi Mvovo, Ruan Pienaar, Handré Pollard, Cobus Reinach, Jan Serfontein, Morné Steyn

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Springboks/De-Villers-returns-to-lead-Boks-20140802

- Schalk Burger dropped in favor of the in-form and younger Marcel Coetzee; fair enough. I've not been a fan of Coetzee but he has worked hard at improving his work at the breakdown rather than just having large numbers of decent but not great carries and tackles. Can possibly now be seen as a fetcher and good back-up to Louw.
- JPP dropped is interesting but between De Allende and Hendricks the form players have been retained and with De Allende and JdV able at center we don't need the versatility offered by JPP.
- FdP out is our biggest concern but hopefullt Hougaard and Reinach step it up. Reinach's poor showing in the SR semi was disconcerting/sobering but TBH we need someone new to get a chance and it might as well be him.
- De Allende finally in brings a lot joy to me. My concern in the backline is we have a lot of players fresh off injuries; De Allende, JdV, Habana and a number of very 'fresh' names still; Pollard, Hendricks, De Allende, Serfontein and even Le Roux possibly/probably starting and not with a lot of caps between them.
- Oosthuizen out is a good call with Malherbe fit again but again we see key WP players fresh of injuries; Etzebeth, Malherbe; WP really need to change our 'style' if only for the Boks' sake. I would have prefered too see someone other than Steenkamp as back-up LH though; either Heinke van der Merwe if we are looking overseas or Du Toit or Oosthuizen (in his better position; the TH experiment was a failure) here at home.
- Botha and Matfield scare me but at least Etzebeth and De Jager are there with PSdT still injured.

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Springboks/Boks-have-chopped-dead-wood-20140802

Article above a fair good reflection at where we are currently; still building but in a good place or at least a promising place.

 

[Imagine]

Hello everyone, after looking at the squad that was announced for the Rugby Championship, I drew up a possible match day 23 based on the assumption that, everyone named in the squad is deemed fit for play and will remain in the squad for the start of the championship on the 16th.

1. Tendai
2. Bismarck
3. Jannie
4. Eben
5. Victor
6. Louw
7. Mahoje
8. Vermeulen
9. Reinach
10. Steyn
11. Habana
12. JdV
13. De Allende
14. Hendricks
15. le Roux

16. Straus
17. Trevor
18. Malherbe
19. Lood
20. Alberts
21. Hougaard
22. Lambie
23. Serfontein

So no real surprises in the front row, but why try and fix what isn't broken? In terms of 4 and 5, I really like Etzebeth in both 4 and 5 lock positions and would happily move him to 5 and bring Lood on at 4 when Matfield comes off the field.

The only real surprise in the forwards would be Mahoje starting at 7 over Alberts, I did this for utility as Alberts can play a multitude of positions in the front row and is the only real replacement for Vermeulen as eighth man, plus I think he is getting older and would do well as an impact player.

I also think Mahoje in general is a good player and deserves his shot in the Rugby Championship.

Moving into the backs the obvious question is, what do we do without FdP? Well, I am not a huge fan of Ruan and I suspect that Hougaard will get the starting position but I would like to see Reinach in with a chance.

Morne is a good 10 and a reliable kicker, I would like to see Pollard but not against an on form Wallabies or All Black side. Although you never know, maybe he'll do fine.

Habana at 11 and Hendricks at 14 is no surprise, as well as Jean at 12 and de Allende at 13 with le Roux at 15 offers no surprises at all. I would actually start Mvovo at 11 for the utility he offers at full back if Bryan Habana wasn't so damn GOOD!!!!!!!

Saying that de Allende can cover wing and so can le Roux, Lambie can cover full back and Serfontein can come on at 12 and JdV could move to 13 but then who is left at fly half if Morne gets it? I suppose move Lambie to fly half and put Hougaard the wing and move Wille back to full back.....nvm

Straus at 16 is again not a big surprise, but what can I say it's just the way it is. Moving on to 17, I would normally choose Guthro here but I like trevor and I feel that he adds depth with his ability to play both loose and tight-head in the scrum. This could be remedied if you play Guthro at 17 and Trevor at 18 but I have a feeling that that is not going to be the case.

Well that is my team as it stands, let me know what you think and as always have a good day

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Hello everyone, after looking at the squad that was announced for the Rugby Championship, I drew up a possible match day 23 based on the assumption that, everyone named in the squad is deemed fit for play and will remain in the squad for the start of the championship on the 16th.

1. Tendai
2. Bismarck
3. Jannie
4. Eben
5. Victor
6. Louw
7. Mahoje
8. Vermeulen
9. Reinach
10. Steyn
11. Habana
12. JdV
13. De Allende
14. Hendricks
15. le Roux

16. Straus
17. Trevor
18. Malherbe
19. Lood
20. Alberts
21. Hougaard
22. Lambie
23. Serfontein

So no real surprises in the front row, but why try and fix what isn't broken? In terms of 4 and 5, I really like Etzebeth in both 4 and 5 lock positions and would happily move him to 5 and bring Lood on at 4 when Matfield comes off the field.

The only real surprise in the forwards would be Mahoje starting at 7 over Alberts, I did this for utility as Alberts can play a multitude of positions in the front row and is the only real replacement for Vermeulen as eighth man, plus I think he is getting older and would do well as an impact player.

I also think Mahoje in general is a good player and deserves his shot in the Rugby Championship.

Moving into the backs the obvious question is, what do we do without FdP? Well, I am not a huge fan of Ruan and I suspect that Hougaard will get the starting position but I would like to see Reinach in with a chance.

Morne is a good 10 and a reliable kicker, I would like to see Pollard but not against an on form Wallabies or All Black side. Although you never know, maybe he'll do fine.

Habana at 11 and Hendricks at 14 is no surprise, as well as Jean at 12 and de Allende at 13 with le Roux at 15 offers no surprises at all. I would actually start Mvovo at 11 for the utility he offers at full back if Bryan Habana wasn't so damn GOOD!!!!!!!

Saying that de Allende can cover wing and so can le Roux, Lambie can cover full back and Serfontein can come on at 12 and JdV could move to 13 but then who is left at fly half if Morne gets it? I suppose move Lambie to fly half and put Hougaard the wing and move Wille back to full back.....nvm

Straus at 16 is again not a big surprise, but what can I say it's just the way it is. Moving on to 17, I would normally choose Guthro here but I like trevor and I feel that he adds depth with his ability to play both loose and tight-head in the scrum. This could be remedied if you play Guthro at 17 and Trevor at 18 but I have a feeling that that is not going to be the case.

Well that is my team as it stands, let me know what you think and as always have a good day

What do you mean why try and fix what isn't broken RE the front row?
I too am happy enough with Etzebeth's line out work that he should be able to work with both Matfield or De Jager or if he needs to be eased back De Jager and Matfield are pretty complementory as well so no problems even though it would be good to move on past reliance on Matfield/Botha.
No doubting Alberts as an impact player. Many would argue that would be the best way to use him; fresh against tired opponents. My personal preference though would be to have Coetzee there at the expense of the less experienced Mohoje (who I feel really needs another season of SR and is only a real option post RWC 2015 or at least he would be if it weren't for SARU telling the coaches our teams are too white) as he is our most rounded loose forward IMO.
9 has been a problem for a good long while now for us. I feel with Pollard there as a primary decision maker we can afford a less traditional SA kicking 9 for a more running 9 so I have no problem with either of Hougaard or Reinach assuming they have license to use their strengths and not try and be something they are not. No Pienaar, please. I do feel Pollard should start against Argentina though I too would possibly like to see him off the bench rather in 'tougher' games until November.

My 23 to face Arg would be (this is assuming the guys returning from injury are 100%)

1 Mtawarira
2 Du Plessis
3 Malherbe
4 De Jager (would swap with Matfield for Aus/NZ)
5 Etzebeth
6 Louw
7 Alberts
8 Vermeulen
9 Hougaard
10 Pollard (would possibly swap with Steyn for Aus/NZ)
11 Habana
12 De Villiers
13 De Allende
14 Hendricks
15 Le Roux

16 Strauss
17 Du Plessis
18 Nyakane
19 Matfield
20 Coetzee
21 Reinach
22 Steyn
23 Mvovo

 

[Draggs]

In no way should Alberts be selected over Coetzee. I am honestly not a huge fan of Willem, I said years ago, and standby it, that he is most useful off the bench. Can't honestly say I'd start Tendai and Jannie other than due to lack of a backup, but now is when Meyer needs to take the time to find some.