best 6 nations scrummaging team

[eot345]

how do you rank the 6 nations teams in terms of scrummaging heres my order

1.England- Sheridan's back and better than ever and coupled with Dan Cole and with the power of shaw is the 2nd row will be a powerfull and techniqual scrum

2.Wale-Adam Jones is as good as ever and will lead the world class pack well

3.France- just worse then wales in the scrum

4.Scotland-small teqnical scrum euan murry can be a dangerous scrummager

5.Itlay-the front row let down by weaker 2nd and back row

6.Irland-the pack is small, weak and aging with stars like paul O'Connel starting to show their age and no upcoming players to replace them

just my opinion whats yours?? how do you rank the teams at scrum time.

 

[Feicarsinn]

You, my friend, are very foolish.

1)You cannot tell how good Sheridan will be. The England scrum was not that impressive during the last 6N.

2) Wales have a very strong scrum, but I wouldn't rate them on a par with the French.

3) The French are awesum.

4) Scotland do have a good scrum. Solid, if not spectacular.

5) Italy's backrow is brilliant, not other word for it. Parisse, Bergemasco, Zanni and Sole are all top class players.

6) Our front row is indeed poor but to say that there is nothing coming up to replace them is ridiculous. What about Healy, Cronin, Buckley, Ryan, O'Brien, Ruddock, Ferris etc. ?

 

[cyRil]

Our pack is nowhere near world class. The best front row coupled with the worst back row does not scream quality and cohesion.
England's could be good, but not like you're making out - is Shaw going to play again?
France have the best scrum in Europe.
Scotland's is better than you give it credit.
Italy are their pack.
Agreed Ireland's is pretty rubbish.

 

[eot345]

To Fei it is you my friend that is incorrect

1. i do know roughly how well he will this season as he played very for sale at the end of last season i have also seen him training we are talking about the upcoming 6n not last 6n last 6n england had both borthwick and payne playing two week scrummagers and Dan cole did not play

2.Yes italy do havea great back row expecially Zanni but this is quite irrelevant at scrum time for example Heaslip is far better than Zanni but ireland still have a shoddy scrum in comparison

3. The french scrum was very weak against SA and the weksh scrum was very good against the AB's

Lastly Ireland coaches put loose play as far more important than scrummaging this is why john hayes is still in the team and so good scrummaagers are a rearity and when i say upcoming player i mean U20's and U18's not mid 20's

to cyRil how do i underestimate the scots would you say they have a better scrum than England France or Wales?
also why would shaw not play again he has been selected for the 2010 season squad he had one bad game against aussi does that mean his test carrier is finnished

thanks for sharing your thoughts guys:lol:

 

[eot345]

what order would you have the rankings be then cyRil??

 

[eot345]

agreed the welsh back row is not great but that does not realy matter in the scrum.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

1. i do know roughly how well he will this season as he played very for sale at the end of last season i have also seen him training

No he didn't, Lee Imiolek and Eifion Roberts were the looseheads at the end of last season (i think Lees first start was the final game of the season?), Sheridan hasn't played since his injury in October/November, and no you haven't (that is, if you're talking about the public training sessions they've been doing, as he's sat both out so far)

 

[Amobokoboko]

I agree with what most of the guys say here, but Italy's backs are really good.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

The Welsh front 5 are World Class, its the lads in the back row that are ultimately what's holding Wales.

But remember he is asking for scrummaging. And the front 5 are the main goer's in the scrum, so I say they are on par with France is pretty fair. Even in NZ Wales scrum was good.

 

[durbutter]

1. France
2. Scotland
2. Wales
2. Italy

Very little seperating these when all are full strength
6. Ireland

england i find hard to rate as their form is hard to gauge given the poor wallaby FR they were up against most recently, and with no definite first choice selection. Great tighthead in Cole, but it remains to be seen whether Sheridan will return to his previous form, or indeed will Johnson pick him even if he does. Payne must have incriminating photos of MJ or something to be still the first choice LH

 

[dullonien]

1. France. Their strength in depth in the front row is rediculous.

2. Wales, England, Italy. Not much seperating all three. For Wales, Adam Jones is a world class tightead, but there's no-one really available if he get's injured. Jenkins is world class for other reasons, his scrummaging is ok, but he won't destroy anyone here. England have plenty of props to choose from. Sheridan's a good player, but hasn't shown destructuve scrummaging abilities for a while (even then it was mainly v Aus). Cole is a great prospect and already a decent scrummager, but not great yet, although will be in time I feel. One of Italy's biggest strengths is their scrum. Not quite as good as it used to be, but still a strong unit.

5. Scotland. World class tighthead in Euan Murray, but he's always injured and doesn't play on Sundays. Bit weak on the looshead.

6. Ireland. Have some good props coming through, ben even they aren't renowned for their scrummagign abilities. A good tighthead would be a godsend for Ireland. That monster who played at U20 level this last season looked a prospect though!

 

[lucky number 7]

thanks for sharing your thoughts guys:lol:

why are you laughing at what people are saying when plainly they have given a more well thought out arguement than yourself?

...to say that the welsh scrum is better than the french to me is very strange the french destroyed every pack they came up against in this years 6 nations...

 

[Conal]

was it macklin you saw or paddy mccallister?? i didnt see last years u20 so im not sure if they played well as both of those props have been signed by ulster

 

[cyRil]

agreed the welsh back row is not great but that does not realy matter in the scrum.

I'm aware of this but you said the pack was world class. For that to be so you need all 8 guys to be pretty good, right?

 

[lucky number 7]

agreed the welsh back row is not great but that does not realy matter in the scrum.

it certainly does ...flankers have to keep ther props hips driven into centre of scrum and the number 8 normally is the man who times the entire engagement and so the whole initial shove will come from his call ..

 

[dullonien]

was it macklin you saw or paddy mccallister?? i didnt see last years u20 so im not sure if they played well as both of those props have been signed by ulster

I think it was Macklin. Destoyed the Welsh lads in the scrum and was prominent in the loose too. Didn't look all that fit though and had to be pulled off just after half time in both the Irish games I saw.

 

[DuncTheDoodle]

Sherridan aside, England's scrum is the same no matter who you put it. Wales' is massivly weakened the moment you lose Adam Jones or Gethin Jenkins. For this reason alone, I'd say the English are a better scrummaging side than Wales. France are obviously top, though. Scotland are underestimated, but not better than France, about on-par with Wales and England. Italy rarely destroy other teams scrums, but always cope well, no matter who against- Not sure why. Ireland? Well, John Hayes has to be the world's best lineout lifter, but is nowhere near getting the scrummaging gong.

 

[Jockstap]

I think it was Macklin. Destoyed the Welsh lads in the scrum and was prominent in the loose too. Didn't look all that fit though and had to be pulled off just after half time in both the Irish games I saw.

It's Maguire you're thinking of, he's an absolute monster. To the original poster, Ireland's scrum I'll concede is terrible but I'd hardly describe Ireland's pack as small and weak, in fact I'd go as far in saying Ireland's pack with Buckley at tighthead along with France is the most dynamic in Europe(but crap in the scrum).

Regarding replacements, in the backrow, Heaslip and Ferris are still young and with O'Brien, Ruddock, O'Mahony, Ryan etc waiting in the wings we should be fine.

In the Front row Healy is still only 22 which is very young for a prop, I can see him being excellent in a few years time. At hooker Sean Cronin looks a special player and Rory Best is still only 27, tighthead prop is an obvious problem for Ireland, Buckley proved in the All Blacks game that he can excel at the highest level in the loose but the jury's still out on his scrummaging ability. He seemed to be improving though near the end of the season and hopefully the 3 jersey is now his to lose.

At second row POC and DOC are now getting on a bit but 30 is still a reasonable age for a lock, Munster have two very good young locks coming through in Nagle and Foley but they still need to put on at least a stone before they can compete with the big boys. Devon Toner from Leinster and Donncha Ryan from Munster are the likely candidates to fill in for the big O's when they leave.

 

[lynam1104]

1. France
2. Wales (when a full strenght)
3.Engaland
4.Italy(close call whit 4 and 5)
5.Scotland
6.Ireland(although the futer look better than before)

 

[eot345]

why are you laughing at what people are saying when plainly they have given a more well thought out arguement than yourself?

...to say that the welsh scrum is better than the french to me is very strange the french destroyed every pack they came up against in this years 6 nations...

it was just supposed to be a happy face jees carm down

it certainly does ...flankers have to keep ther props hips driven into centre of scrum and the number 8 normally is the man who times the entire engagement and so the whole initial shove will come from his call ..

i play flanker at if not high but decent club level yes the backrow do play a reasonable part in the scrum the tight 5 more important

why are you laughing at what people are saying when plainly they have given a more well thought out arguement than yourself?

...to say that the welsh scrum is better than the french to me is very strange the french destroyed every pack they came up against in this years 6 nations...

also this isnt an argument i just want to hear other peoples views thats why i joined this forum i dont want to be a lairy guy like you who wants to get into arguments over the internet stop trying to take offence at such insignificant things

why are you laughing at what people are saying when plainly they have given a more well thought out arguement than yourself?

...to say that the welsh scrum is better than the french to me is very strange the french destroyed every pack they came up against in this years 6 nations...

(my apologies for not making this all one post) and finaly did you see the the france SA tests France were simply out scrummaged unlike when england played NZM where we dominated even without much of our 1XV pack

It's Maguire you're thinking of, he's an absolute monster. To the original poster, Ireland's scrum I'll concede is terrible but I'd hardly describe Ireland's pack as small and weak, in fact I'd go as far in saying Ireland's pack with Buckley at tighthead along with France is the most dynamic in Europe(but crap in the scrum).

Regarding replacements, in the backrow, Heaslip and Ferris are still young and with O'Brien, Ruddock, O'Mahony, Ryan etc waiting in the wings we should be fine.

In the Front row Healy is still only 22 which is very young for a prop, I can see him being excellent in a few years time. At hooker Sean Cronin looks a special player and Rory Best is still only 27, tighthead prop is an obvious problem for Ireland, Buckley proved in the All Blacks game that he can excel at the highest level in the loose but the jury's still out on his scrummaging ability. He seemed to be improving though near the end of the season and hopefully the 3 jersey is now his to lose.

At second row POC and DOC are now getting on a bit but 30 is still a reasonable age for a lock, Munster have two very good young locks coming through in Nagle and Foley but they still need to put on at least a stone before they can compete with the big boys. Devon Toner from Leinster and Donncha Ryan from Munster are the likely candidates to fill in for the big O's when they leave.

my apologies i ment small and weak in the scrum outside the scrum they are indead very good with the likes of heaslip