best 6 nations scrummaging team

[lynam1104]

(my apologies for not making this all one post) and finaly did you see the the france SA tests France were simply out scrummaged unlike when england played NZM where we dominated even without much of our 1XV pack

You make a good point that france were out scrummaged by SA but that irrlvent to this topic this is about the 6N (you should know you stated the thred) france could have won that game but they a tipical french thing and did not turn up.

 

[eot345]

I'm aware of this but you said the pack was world class. For that to be so you need all 8 guys to be pretty good, right?

i mean in the SCRUM only i think they are a world class pack in the Scrum a team can scrummage very well an excelent tight 5 and average backrow

The Welsh front 5 are World Class, its the lads in the back row that are ultimately what's holding Wales.

But remember he is asking for scrummaging. And the front 5 are the main goer's in the scrum, so I say they are on par with France is pretty fair. Even in NZ Wales scrum was good.

hear him cYril

to lynam

yes i am talking about the 6n but that does but that does not mean you cannot rate teams scrums by there most recent matches

 

[lynam1104]

Well yes but your trying to rate in the 6N not the world..If you look at france in this year 6N and the hinken cup to some extent they were nuber one. If this would the world it would look somting like this

1. NZ
2. France(based on overall perfomnce)
3.Aus
4.Argintna
5.SA(if they pick the right front row)
that would be my top 5

 

[eot345]

i only have one question why the hell is aus there there scrum suckes even with their first string front row also why is SA rated 5 they out scrummaged NZ last weekend my top 5 scrummaging teams would be for the SCRUM are


1.SA
2.NZ
3.France (yes i have changed my mind)
4.England
5.Wales

 

[Thingimubob]

i only have one question why the hell is aus there there scrum suckes even with their first string front row also why is SA rated 5 they out scrummaged NZ last weekend my top 5 scrummaging teams would be for the SCRUM are


1.SA
2.NZ
3.France (yes i have changed my mind)
4.England
5.Wales

Disagree about the Australian scrum - over the past year their first choice front row has shown itself to be very tidy! I remember them doing very well in the Autumn Internationals last year in both the scrum and the loose, so I think its very unfair to say that they suck. I don't think you can really take much out of how much england destroyed the Aussie scrum last month, because I remember one of the Australian posters on here pointing out the fact that it was pretty much their third choice front row.
Also, I'm sure one of the mods will mention this sometime or other - might be an idea to put all your responses into one post instead of doing more than one post one after another. Stops double posting and tidied the thread up a bit. If you want to put more than one quote into one post I think all you need to do is click the little picture of the speech bubble on the bottom right corner of each post you want to quote, then click 'Reply to Thread' and away you go .

 

[durbutter]

Welsh scrum being very over rated. It's pretty good when first choice but if either Jones or Jenkins get injured it can be dire.

Imo Scotland have better strength in depth, and i havent seen them have a poor scrummaging day out in ages.

i only have one question why the hell is aus there there scrum suckes even with their first string front row also why is SA rated 5 they out scrummaged NZ last weekend my top 5 scrummaging teams would be for the SCRUM are


1.SA
2.NZ
3.France (yes i have changed my mind)
4.England
5.Wales

Am....Argentina? Italy? Aus? And of course lest we forget Georgia. All would be contenders ahead of England Wales and possibly even NZ and SA.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Wales scrum overrated please, don't be silly. Be interesting to see where you rate the Irish pack.

It did the business against both NZ and SA recently. In the 6 Nations it was strong as well bar from the France game, when the French pack brought its A-Game.

Paul James more than held his own against NZ and SA so I don't buy the argument when Jenkins is not fit at scrum time we struggle. However when Adam Jones is unfit then yes we do tend to struggle.

 

[nickdnz]

I'd go with -

France
Wales
England
Italy
Scotland
Ireland

 

[TRF_Cymro]

I'd go with -

France
Wales
England
Italy
Scotland
Ireland

Where would you put the likes of SA, Aus, NZ and Arg in there?

 

[durbutter]

Wales scrum overrated please, don't be silly. Be interesting to see where you rate the Irish pack.

It did the business against both NZ and SA recently. In the 6 Nations it was strong as well bar from the France game, when the French pack brought its A-Game.

Paul James more than held his own against NZ and SA so I don't buy the argument when Jenkins is not fit at scrum time we struggle. However when Adam Jones is unfit then yes we do tend to struggle.

It rate the Irish pack as the best pack ever !!!11 one!1!!

What i'm saying is when GJ is not there they are not a destructive scrum, and if Jones gets injured it's not the most stable.

 

[nickdnz]

i only have one question why the hell is aus there there scrum suckes even with their first string front row also why is SA rated 5 they out scrummaged NZ last weekend my top 5 scrummaging teams would be for the SCRUM are


1.SA
2.NZ
3.France (yes i have changed my mind)
4.England
5.Wales

New Zealand destroyed the SA scrum. Tony Woodcock, Kevin Mealamu and Owen Franks made Steenkamp, Smit and van de Linde look like kids. I don't think you have a clue mate. France proabably have a stronger scrum than NZ, and England do not have a stronger scrum than Wales!

I'd rate it like this-

Where would you put the likes of SA, Aus, NZ and Arg in there?

France (I don't know what it is, because their pack isn't that big, but man can some of those props destroy, last match in 2009 NZ and France had an awsome scrumming dual)
New Zealand (Looked better than Wales when Woodcock came on, but Wales looked better than NZ when the Frank brothers started, and when Tialata was on. We now have the correct front row, but I'd say Wales is pretty much equal, nothing really in it.)
Wales Very good scrum, no way over rated.
South Africa Although Steenkamp sucks. They need to start Beast and BJ Botha and in my opinion, Gary Botha should start at hooker.
England Destroyed an understrength Australian scrum.
Argentina They don't seem to have the scrum they did in 2007, and their key scrummages are ageing, but I'd still say a very powerful scrum.
Australia: Ben Robinson, Steven Moore and Ben Alexander haven't proven themselves to be as great as some people claim at international level, but they're perhaps going to be one of the best front rows in the world. I think Ben Robinson is over hyped, but Ben Alexander is class.
Italy: One of the few aspects of their game that's worth mentioning.
Scotland: Does the job, but not really world class front row. The entire pack holds the scrum well.
Ireland: Not the best scrummaging front row, especially with Hayes still around. However I can see their front row being a great asset of their game once a few of their development players come through.

 

[diehardwithapanda]

New Zealand destroyed the SA scrum. Tony Woodcock, Kevin Mealamu and Owen Franks made Steenkamp, Smit and van de Linde look like kids. I don't think you have a clue mate. France proabably have a stronger scrum than NZ, and England do not have a stronger scrum than Wales!

You might want to watch this. Just skip to the 5th minute.

 

[Charles]

France (I don't know what it is, because their pack isn't that big, but man can some of those props destroy, last match in 2009 NZ and France had an awsome scrumming dual)

It's all about technique.Nothing to do with size. Cohesion, coordination, body position, feet position, binding etc...
The scrum is very, VERY important in french rugby, and has a very long tradition. Having a strong scrum is the first basic element that any coach will try to have in his team, regardless of the level (from Pro to amateur).

 

[Conal]

well said charles hopefully ireland see this nd stop picking the bigest man they can find at 3
but of course size does matter a bit if i put george gregan and peter stringer as props it owuldnt matter how much tecnique they had they would die

 

[nickdnz]

You might want to watch this. Just skip to the 5th minute.

Your point? The flanker was bound in the right position for the entire scrum, it's just that Ben Franks ending getting below Steenkamp (yet he didn't lift). The reason for this is also where Steenkamp is binding. If you look it is just below the arm pit, which is illeagle as it is. You need to bind closer to the ribs. Despite that, in both tests the AB's had a stronger scrum. They then went on to mention Woodcock's bind dropping. This is perfectly fine if it is only for a short instance to stabalize the scrum, so it doesn't collaps. Once again a penalty should have been given for not allowing Woodcock the initial bind. The idiot doing the analysis doesn't know what he's talking about at scrum time. What was your point?

It's all about technique.Nothing to do with size. Cohesion, coordination, body position, feet position, binding etc...
The scrum is very, VERY important in french rugby, and has a very long tradition. Having a strong scrum is the first basic element that any coach will try to have in his team, regardless of the level (from Pro to amateur).

I think it's important to most countries, I play tight head prop so I realize the importance of the scrum.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

The video shows a few problems with the scrums, on a few occasions penalties could have been given either way.