Ben Morgan Makes International Decision?

[cyRil]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/welsh/13691446.stm

Scarlets boss Nigel Davies has revealed that number eight Ben Morgan turned down the chance to play for England Saxons in the Churchill Cup.

Had he done so, Bristol-born Morgan, 22, would not be allowed to opt for Wales when he qualifies on residency ahead of the 2012 Six Nations.

 

[Logorrhea]

Exciting times.

Ben who?

 

[cyRil]

Not bitiiiiiiin'!!!

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Carl Fearns is better than him anyway

 

[iWin]

I don't understand why he was even asked in the first place. Can't see who he would have been in place of in the squad.

 

[cyRil]

I don't understand why he was even asked in the first place. Can't see who he would have been in place of in the squad.

Haven't seen him play, I guess? Not that I know about, or even who, is in the Saxons back-row. But I wouldn't dismiss Morgan like that completely!

 

[Peat]

I think Morgan has more international potential than Jordan Crane, and is currently in better form than Gaskell, and is a hell of a lot more experienced than Gibson.

I'm a little pee'd off to be honest. I'm not sure he's going to make it as an international, but he's a very good ball carrier. I'll be annoyed if he makes it in a Wales shirt.

Still, we've always known that Taffy is a thief.

 

[Logorrhea]

Not bitiiiiiiin'!!!

Nahhh I was reasonably impressed with him the last time he came to the RDS. Made a few yards while carrying and against any recent Leinster defense that has to be respected. I'm waiting to see what else there is to his game (an offload or two maybe?), and I'd be a lot more enthusiastic about the young Dragons number 8, but hes only young so it would be a good option for Wales.

 

[iWin]

Haven't seen him play, I guess? Not that I know about, or even who, is in the Saxons back-row. But I wouldn't dismiss Morgan like that completely!

I've seen him a bit, but the only person in the Saxons squad for the Churchill Cup that might lose out to him is Gibson, and even then, I don't know why they would want to use Morgan instead.
Perhaps in an attempt to stop Wales from getting him?

 

[Logorrhea]

I don't know why they would want to use Morgan instead.

You do realise that Nick Easter is the current number 8 for England dont you? The fact that people are talking about Gaskell, Haskell or Crane (heaven forbid) or Waldron for any kind of representative rugby with England should terrify you.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Presume you didn't see Haskell during the 6N?
I hate the guy, but can't deny he was good
Crane is a good number 8, don't know what you're on about
Narraway's good as well, and Fearns in the future
Also got Dowson and Guest - and those are just #8s

Backrow is somewhere England is set, it's just that Johnson picks Easter at 8 all the time

 

[iWin]

Exactly. I'm not saying that Morgan is bad, or even worse than the incumbents, but back row is not a position we need to be looking further afield to fill.
And yes, Easter isn't the best. I'm looking forward to seeing Guest take over the position at quins.
The fact remains that asking Morgan to represent the saxons in this churchill cup was an odd choice, as it would have meant someone like Crane, Narraway or Johnson missing out.

 

[Peat]

Presume you didn't see Haskell during the 6N?
I hate the guy, but can't deny he was good
Crane is a good number 8, don't know what you're on about
Narraway's good as well, and Fearns in the future
Also got Dowson and Guest - and those are just #8s

Backrow is somewhere England is set, it's just that Johnson picks Easter at 8 all the time

Haskell thinks he is a flanker. Dowson mainly plays flanker. Guest plays flanker as much as 8 and isn't a starter. Fearns has mainly not played 8 this season and if I'm honest I'm not sure thats going to change.

That leaves Jordan Crane, who is the Louis Deacon of the back-row, and Luke Narraway who I rate but requires internationals to prove he's really at that level.

England are boned at 8.

 

[Logorrhea]

Presume you didn't see Haskell during the 6N?

I watched him with interest, especially given the hype you and chris threw around about how he was going to school O'Brien.

Thought he played as a 6. Didnt then, and doesnt now look like an international class number 8. He looked a little lost when he came up agaisnt a decent backrow. Physical enough, but thats about it.

Crane is a good number 8, don't know what you're on about
Narraway's good as well, and Fearns in the future
Also got Dowson and Guest - and those are just #8s
Backrow is somewhere England is set, it's just that Johnson picks Easter at 8 all the time

So are you comparing Crane, Narraway, Dowson, Guest, Haskell to any of the current international number 8's? Do any of them compare in any way with the likes of Parisse, Heaslip, Reid, Showpony Spies, Lobbe, HarryNordikki, or even Beattie? Look at that list again and tell me you have an 8 worth talking about.

Thats what I'm on about. You cant dismiss a young prospect when all you have are proven journeymen or unproven blindside flankers.

That of course is not to say that I, having standards far above those of the average AP fan, cant dismiss both the young prospect and the current crop of shite

 

[iWin]

Haskell thinks he is a flanker. Dowson mainly plays flanker. Guest plays flanker as much as 8 and isn't a starter. Fearns has mainly not played 8 this season and if I'm honest I'm not sure thats going to change.

That leaves Jordan Crane, who is the Louis Deacon of the back-row, and Luke Narraway who I rate but requires internationals to prove he's really at that level.

England are boned at 8.

To be fair, no, we're not.
Dismissing Haskell, Dowson, Guest and Fearns as flankers, and therefore not capable of playing 8 is silly, as all have proven themselves to be more than able.
Ok, so the international proof isn't there, but that's the same for any player when they come into the setup.
There is no doubt that england have the depth in ability and potential at 8 to cover ourselves, just because you consider someone to be a flanker doesn't mean they are unable to play 8 to an international level.
Narraway is probably the heir apparent to Easter, and has definitely got what it takes to gain that spot, whereas the others like Fearns and Guest are definitely going to be around for a long time to be competing for the place.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

I think Morgan has more international potential than Jordan Crane, and is currently in better form than Gaskell, and is a hell of a lot more experienced than Gibson.

I'm a little pee'd off to be honest. I'm not sure he's going to make it as an international, but he's a very good ball carrier. I'll be annoyed if he makes it in a Wales shirt.

Still, we've always known that Taffy is a thief.

I hope he makes it just to annoy you because that will make me happy

Some clearly have not seen Morgan this season, he has been a revelation and if he selects Wales over England, no matter what people will say he will be a missed opportunity. The fact that both Gatland and Johnson have spoken to him personally shows that both rate him.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Fearns is an 8, I should know having watched him for bloody years. Played 7 because David Seymour has been injured all season

So are you comparing Crane, Narraway, Dowson, Guest, Haskell to any of the current international number 8's? Do any of them compare in any way with the likes of Parisse, Heaslip, Reid, Showpony Spies, Lobbe, HarryNordikki, or even Beattie? Look at that list again and tell me you have an 8 worth talking about.

Worst. Argument. Ever.
I'm saying they're our choices at 8. Why can't I list the English #8s? I didn't say they're the best in the world, just that we have a load of 8s, Morgan is not a million times better than any, so why chase after him when he probably wants to play for Wales - Probably will makes it as an international as he's looked good for Scarlets the last season
That's like you saying "Oh, we've got Paddy Wallace as an Irish qualified 10" and me saying "LOL BUT HE'S NOT DAN CARTER THOUGH IS HE?"

 

[Duckdee]

England are boned at 8.

Thomas Waldrom.

 

[Peat]

I hope he makes it just to annoy you because that will make me happy

Some clearly have not seen Morgan this season, he has been a revelation and if he selects Wales over England, no matter what people will say he will be a missed opportunity. The fact that both Gatland and Johnson have spoken to him personally shows that both rate him.

You've suffered through Andy Powell, you deserve a little happiness I suppose.

Anyway, 8 is a specialised position, Dowson turns 30 this year and has never been capped so we can forget about him and Carl Fearns is going to Bath, where the suggestion of playing people in position is considered the height of humour.

Also, I think Morgan is capable of being a top class international 8. Which most of the list of English names being thrown about here aren't.

 

[Logorrhea]

Worst. Argument. Ever. I'm saying they're our choices at 8. Why can't I list the English #8s?

You can, you did, I just said they are **** options and dont compare favourably to the majority of number 8s playing international rugby. You said you were sorted in the back row, I used the comparison to point out your not.

I didn't say they're the best in the world, just that we have a load of 8s

But as you say, none of them are any good. None of them are international class, and few of them (or so it appears) actually play as an 8.

Morgan is not a million times better than any, so why chase after him when he probably wants to play for Wales

Because hes young, hes consistently performing well for the Scarlets, HES ENGLISH!, Hes actually playing 8. The current english options are ****. Lots of reasons.

That's like you saying "Oh, we've got Paddy Wallace as an Irish qualified 10" and me saying "LOL BUT HE'S NOT DAN CARTER THOUGH IS HE?"

While your arguement is the equivilent of saying that there is no point in chasing Dan Biggar (hypothetically) or Owen Farrell because you currently have Geraghty, Lamb, Myler and Hodgson.