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Australian Republican Movement

The British government stabbed us in the back with both the wanton disregard for Australian lives in WW1 (and your own too) and again with the Singapore solution in WWII. The Singapore solution in particular was more than just incompetence, it was emblematic of a complete disinterest in the future of the country and a poor show of gratitude for 300,000 Australians served and 60,000 lives so needlessly lost for Britain in WW1.

Are you ****ing serious? WW1 was a wanton disregard for British, French Australian, German, Russian, Austrian lives not because it was fun but because industrial warfare accelerated quicker than warfare tactics how this constitutes as a back stabbing of the Aussie nation by a nation that lost far far more its own men is truly staggering.

As for Singapore the British government lost 50,000 men (many captured and worked to death on the Burma railway) and 2 of its best ships in the defense of Singapore. No one including your new mates in Washington understood the Japanese treat hence why they lost most of their fleet at Pearl Harbour and the Philippians in the space of one month which put Australasia at a greater risk than the loss of Singapore.

How the hell can you call any instances as stabs in the back simply shows you have no concept of History. From June 1940 Britain was under a far greater threat of invasion that Australia ever was, more of its cities were bombed, there were more hardships for the general population and more of its troops were getting killed. You really really need to learn some perspective and get a grip on reality.
 
Easy, easy...relax. I don't speak English like I could make nuances or being subtle. But I do know I'm being polite. Just let's keep a standard...like we were gentlemen who like rugby and discussing (but not fighting) about politics.

I don't consider myself a liberal. In fact I consider myself a moderate conservative. I'm also passionate about my country, and I can tell you now that if you had the barest idea of Australian 20th century history, you'd know it was one of dogged Australian loyalty to the mother country punctuated by British betrayal at every turn. Australia has been its own country for over a hundred years, and we have plenty of our own traditions and symbols at this point, so we hardly need to continue piggybacking off our forebears.

You already said it, I already knew it. Not much love for England (govt's, not englishmen) in my heart. Admiration on some points, yes. Zero feelings. You didn't get the point. You don't need to maintain an english monarch by any chance in order to have some culture like the one of your own were an inferior one. Which is not.


Look, I'm not saying your points are a load of sentimental, unimaginative and antiquated bulls#!%, but Australian culture doesn't need the symbols and rituals of some bloated pommy monarchy to survive. Heck, if that were important, the United States wouldn't be the most powerful country in the world and Britain wouldn't have virtually gone bankrupt after WWII. Or do you think the French and the Irish feel their societies are poorer because they don't force their tax payers to subsidise the family of a pack of murderers from the middle ages to sit around expensive estates drinking expensive whisky and wine?

Thank you, thank you...USA were built AGAINST that monarchy. Different story. French and irish are french and irish, I don't want to make more friends around :p


I agree with you on one thing though, rituals and symbols are important, and that's why I'm a republican. Because it's important that we stop borrowing our identity and symbols off people we only superficially resemble. Otherwise we're little better than religious folk who borrow their morals and identity from the words of dead men who lived in an age punctuated by ignorance and brutality.

Man, who do you want to fool? Yourself? It's like me wanting to be distinguished of an uruguaian from a mile distance. You are mainly british islands working class (that's an actual compliment, something to be proud of) with an all year round tan.


As for South America and US protectorate states... well, again, you clearly don't know d*ck about Australia if you don't know that it was the US that saved our ass after English incompetence left us open for invasion in WWII, and that we've effectively been a US protectorate state ever since. Heck, in a certain sense it would be more logical to have the US President as our symbolic head of state. At least US power is actually relevant in Australia. Because I can tell you one thing: our ties with Britain will mean f#** all if China's power continues on its current trajectory - that's why we're strengthening our ties with Washington, Japan and South Korea.

Ok, I don't know whatever word substituded with asterisks about Australia (a country which I like in my World Top 5) but you are, yet, europeans living upside down. Neither asian, nor polynesian. The issue with Washington, Japan and SK, looks good. The chinese one, doesn't.

By the way, you were involved in an invasion risk BECAUSE of the USA gov't who pushed off limits with Japan. Yes, sir, Roosvelt did it. Forced Japan (who of course were already willing to it) to enter a war with no risk for USA and every danger to british empire.

But I have an everybody happy solution; England becomes a republic, and the rest of the commonwealth follows the lead. That would the trick, wouldn't it?
 
What's wrong with the flags? I'd kill for having the Southern Cross on a flag!
 
What's wrong with the flags? I'd kill for having the Southern Cross on a flag!

In my opinion, nothing. The current New Zealand flag is almost perfect. It showcases our British heritage and has the Southern Cross which was used for navigation purposes by a variety of people.

Anyway, this thread descended quickly. From reading sanzar's posts it is obvious that is wish for a Republic is borne out of a deep hatred for the United Kingdom rather than any specific consitutional reason.

I see it all the time - people want to step on our heritage.

What are the most popular sports in New Zealand? Rugby, cricket, soccer. Where did those sports come from? The United Kingdom.
Where does our parliamentary system come from? The UK
Where does our legal system come from? The UK
Where does our language come from? The UK

Yet, because our rugby team does a traditional Maori dance, we might have a hangi once a year and can say ka pai apparently Maori culture is more important? I'm not saying Maori culture shouldn't be celebrated, they are the tangata whenua. However, we should still be proud of our British heritage. Imagine if the Germans have colonised us. hmmmm I wonder what would have happened to the Maori in WWII then? Before the British came cannibalism was rife in New Zealand. Forgive me for being proud of my culture and my heritage and wanting that to be represented in national symbols.

As for the Queen well she is actually the Queen of New Zealand. I don't see having the Queen as head of state as maintaining ties with the UK. It just so happens that New Zealand and the UK have the same head of state.

EDIT: oh now we don't like the Chinese either. This is a really charming conversation.
 
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Are you ****ing serious? WW1 was a wanton disregard for British, French Australian, German, Russian, Austrian lives not because it was fun but because industrial warfare accelerated quicker than warfare tactics how this constitutes as a back stabbing of the Aussie nation by a nation that lost far far more its own men is truly staggering.

Context is everything, and the British persepective is markedly different to the Australian one. Australia had asked for assistance in its own neighbourhood from the mother country, only to be informed that Britain was outsourcing our defence to the Japanese navy (Britain had an alliance with Japan in WW1). There was already a great sense of unease in Australia about Japan at the time, and many suspected we were already being looked at as a potential target by Tokyo. So the suggestion by Britain that we simply rely on them for our defence was a slap in the face. This largely what drove the decision to support Britain in the war; the Australian government believed it needed to support Britain so that the Royal Navy would retain its paramount position in the world at that time. Ironically, when the war started Australia demonstrated an ability to quickly build a navy, which is why some historians have argued that we'd have been better off just focusing on our on defence and coming to terms with the fact that Britain ultimately didn't give a stuff about us.

As for Singapore the British government lost 50,000 men (many captured and worked to death on the Burma railway) and 2 of its best ships in the defense of Singapore. No one including your new mates in Washington understood the Japanese treat hence why they lost most of their fleet at Pearl Harbour and the Philippians in the space of one month which put Australasia at a greater risk than the loss of Singapore.

How the hell can you call any instances as stabs in the back simply shows you have no concept of History. From June 1940 Britain was under a far greater threat of invasion that Australia ever was, more of its cities were bombed, there were more hardships for the general population and more of its troops were getting killed. You really really need to learn some perspective and get a grip on reality.

Again, in England you clearly haven't been told the truth of what happened on the ground in Australia. The Singapore solution has been regarded by many Australians and New Zealanders as a great betrayal ever since. Australian leaders had told their British counterparts that the Singapore Solution wouldn't hold out the Japanese and that a much greater force was needed, but they were ignored by the British leadership. Sadly, our better informed commanders trusted in British judgement.

Man, who do you want to fool? Yourself? It's like me wanting to be distinguished of an uruguaian from a mile distance. You are mainly british islands working class (that's an actual compliment, something to be proud of) with an all year round tan.

By the way, you were involved in an invasion risk BECAUSE of the USA gov't who pushed off limits with Japan. Yes, sir, Roosvelt did it. Forced Japan (who of course were already willing to it) to enter a war with no risk for USA and every danger to british empire.

As someone who speaks Japanese, has lived there and has a pretty solid understanding of their history I can tell you now that that statement is just plain ridiculous. The Japanese invaded Manchuria in 1931, well before Pearl Harbour, and their limited resources and sense of insecurity meant that they were looking at Australian resources more or less immediately from that point on. The US's attempts to push Japan were in response to the Japanese moves into Asia and alignment with Germany. The idea that US attempts to reign Japan in through economic sanctions some how created the risk to Australia is a complete misreading of the strategic reality at the time.

As for us not having an identity separate from Britain, well it's worth remembering that the US as it stands now was founded on a rebellion against Britain, but it started out simply as another colony much like Australia.

What's wrong with the flags? I'd kill for having the Southern Cross on a flag!

Really? I have no idea why... you may as well ask the Americans if you can slap their flag in for all the relevance it would have.
What's wrong with the flags is that they're a hang-over from the colonial era that effectively identify Australia and NZ as provinces of Great Britain. There's nothing in them that represents the people of those countries as the are today outside of the British connection
 
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From reading sanzar's posts it is obvious that is wish for a Republic is borne out of a deep hatred for the United Kingdom rather than any specific consitutional reason.

I see it all the time - people want to step on our heritage.

It's got nothing to do with a deep hatred of the United Kingdom. My expressing anger at the incompetence and disrespect shown to Australia by the British ruling class does not actually reflect a hatred for all things British. I'm very much an advocate for Westminster Parliamentary Democracy (although the way we elect our senate is flawed), but at the same time I've yet to hear where there has ever been any benefit to us as a result of our British connection in the last hundred years.

There simply isn't, and in fact it's been downright damaging at times and if you can't see that you're little more than a sentimentalist who doesn't have a grasp of the fact that the UK was a wasted force already by WW1 and had little interest in our welfare.

What are the most popular sports in New Zealand? Rugby, cricket, soccer. Where did those sports come from? The United Kingdom.
Where does our parliamentary system come from? The UK
Where does our legal system come from? The UK
Where does our language come from? The UK

Everything has to come from somewhere. But just because our system of government has British roots doesn't mean we need to pretend we're still part of England. We're not, and the strategic realities of our region place our interests much closer to Washington and Tokyo than they do to London.

As for the Queen well she is actually the Queen of New Zealand. I don't see having the Queen as head of state as maintaining ties with the UK. It just so happens that New Zealand and the UK have the same head of state.

EDIT: oh now we don't like the Chinese either. This is a really charming conversation.

Yet interestingly she's technically not the Queen of England...

Oh and who said anything about not liking the Chinese? They're a strategic competitor in a region that has been defined by US dominance for the last 70 years. Their rise will cause a destablisation of the current order just like all new economic powers do. Guarding against that is simple strategic realism.
 
Actually, if they just dropped the Jack from the Aussie flag and made the Southern Cross bigger that would be a pretty decent flag without too much upheaval. And a black and silver fern flag would be pretty awesome for NZ.
 
This is the State flag of Hawaii. I think it's pretty cool.

1200px-Flag_of_Hawaii_1816.svg.png





And my home province of Ontario, a little bland but I like the symbolism.



2400px-Flag_of_Ontario.svg.png
 
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Actually, if they just dropped the Jack from the Aussie flag and made the Southern Cross bigger that would be a pretty decent flag without too much upheaval. And a black and silver fern flag would be pretty awesome for NZ.

I agree they need to keep it simple and have some tie in with the current design. I personally like the design that's been put forward by 'Ausflag' recently:
AusFlag_design_Aug2012_Sporting-Flag_%20PMS%20blue281_yellow7409_green357.png
 

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Those pics came out bigger than I expected, I won't change them though......reason = Sloth.
 
In my opinion, nothing. The current New Zealand flag is almost perfect. It showcases our British heritage and has the Southern Cross which was used for navigation purposes by a variety of people.

Anyway, this thread descended quickly. From reading sanzar's posts it is obvious that is wish for a Republic is borne out of a deep hatred for the United Kingdom rather than any specific consitutional reason.

I see it all the time - people want to step on our heritage.

What are the most popular sports in New Zealand? Rugby, cricket, soccer. Where did those sports come from? The United Kingdom.
Where does our parliamentary system come from? The UK
Where does our legal system come from? The UK
Where does our language come from? The UK

Yet, because our rugby team does a traditional Maori dance, we might have a hangi once a year and can say ka pai apparently Maori culture is more important? I'm not saying Maori culture shouldn't be celebrated, they are the tangata whenua. However, we should still be proud of our British heritage. Imagine if the Germans have colonised us. hmmmm I wonder what would have happened to the Maori in WWII then? Before the British came cannibalism was rife in New Zealand. Forgive me for being proud of my culture and my heritage and wanting that to be represented in national symbols.

As for the Queen well she is actually the Queen of New Zealand. I don't see having the Queen as head of state as maintaining ties with the UK. It just so happens that New Zealand and the UK have the same head of state.

EDIT: oh now we don't like the Chinese either. This is a really charming conversation.

Whoah - dude just because people disagree it doesn't mean people are trying to 'step on your culture and heritage' - which I will point out the YOUR in your culture and heritage, which is mine also - isn't the only culture and heritage that should be represented, seeing as New Zealand is such a multi-cultural society. In terms of the flag, I wouldn't be especially proud or able to identify with a flag that only represented Maori, but I would argue our current flag represents our colonization - which perhaps isn't something we should place at the height of our identity.

If she is our Queen, why was the last time she was in New Zealand the early 1950's? Why should many New Zealander's be forced to identify with something that they simply do not? Lots of history has in fact come from the United Kingdom - however our voting system is German, our biggest trading partener is Australia, our predominant media is from the United States. The relevance of any of this is little in my opinion. England may always hold a special place in New Zealand's history, but I think to define ourselves by it really doesn't give us much credit or relfect where we are as a country.

The only problem with changing to a republic is the logistical ones, in my mind.
 
Whoah - dude just because people disagree it doesn't mean people are trying to 'step on your culture and heritage' - which I will point out the YOUR in your culture and heritage, which is mine also - isn't the only culture and heritage that should be represented, seeing as New Zealand is such a multi-cultural society. In terms of the flag, I wouldn't be especially proud or able to identify with a flag that only represented Maori, but I would argue our current flag represents our colonization - which perhaps isn't something we should place at the height of our identity.

If she is our Queen, why was the last time she was in New Zealand the early 1950's? Why should many New Zealander's be forced to identify with something that they simply do not? Lots of history has in fact come from the United Kingdom - however our voting system is German, our biggest trading partener is Australia, our predominant media is from the United States. The relevance of any of this is little in my opinion. England may always hold a special place in New Zealand's history, but I think to define ourselves by it really doesn't give us much credit or relfect where we are as a country.

The only problem with changing to a republic is the logistical ones, in my mind.

I had a feeling this just sounded too long a time so I did some digging, the Queen has visited NZ ten times in her reign the last being in 2002 as part of the Golden jubilee https://www.royal.gov.uk/MonarchAndCommonwealth/NewZealand/Royalvisits.aspx. My guess is at her age it's not recommended she take such long flights/trips anymore a.k.a. why some of the older actors from The Lord of the Rings trilogy filmed their scenes in the U.K. when time for the Hobbit filming came around.

Edit: My guess was wrong she's visited Oz twice since 2002, so the travel can't be the most important factor in the lack of a visit in the last decade.
 
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I had a feeling this just sounded too long a time so I did some digging, the Queen has visited NZ ten times in her reign the last being in 2002 as part of the Golden jubilee https://www.royal.gov.uk/MonarchAndCommonwealth/NewZealand/Royalvisits.aspx. My guess is at her age it's not recommended she take such long flights/trips anymore a.k.a. why some of the older actors from The Lord of the Rings trilogy filmed their scenes in the U.K. when time for the Hobbit filming came around.

Edit: My guess was wrong she's visited Oz twice since 2002, so the travel can't be the most important factor in the lack of a visit in the last decade.

Hahaha - I retract.
 
Whoah - dude just because people disagree it doesn't mean people are trying to 'step on your culture and heritage' - which I will point out the YOUR in your culture and heritage, which is mine also - isn't the only culture and heritage that should be represented, seeing as New Zealand is such a multi-cultural society. In terms of the flag, I wouldn't be especially proud or able to identify with a flag that only represented Maori, but I would argue our current flag represents our colonization - which perhaps isn't something we should place at the height of our identity.

If she is our Queen, why was the last time she was in New Zealand the early 1950's? Why should many New Zealander's be forced to identify with something that they simply do not? Lots of history has in fact come from the United Kingdom - however our voting system is German, our biggest trading partener is Australia, our predominant media is from the United States. The relevance of any of this is little in my opinion. England may always hold a special place in New Zealand's history, but I think to define ourselves by it really doesn't give us much credit or relfect where we are as a country.

The only problem with changing to a republic is the logistical ones, in my mind.

My point is that British culture and heritage is unavoidable. It isn't just my culture, it is everyone's. When was the last time any Maori person (or anyone else) in New Zealand went to watch a sold out game of Ki-o-rahi, or even played it, or even knew what it was? You can't say I'm Asian, I want to be tried under an Asian court system. British culture is unavoidable in New Zealand society. I'm sure even a Maori person's day to day life is influenced far more by British culture than by Maori culture.

Honestly, I couldn't care what the flag looks like. The Russian flag is just the Dutch flag upside down and they don't seem to mind too much. I just think people should respect the overall positive influence that the British have had on this country and not demonise them. Sanzar is demonising them and that is when I feel my culture is being stepped on. If you think the comments that the British are just back stabbing ****s isn't offensive, demonising or unappreciative of British influence on our society then, well, let's just say I strongly disagree and leave it there.

It's a bit like in history class where we spent all this time learning about Maui Pomare and never even discussed Ancient Greece, Ancient Rome, Genghis Khan, William the Conqueror, Manga Carta, Reformation, Oliver Cromwell, the American Revolution or the French Revolution. I can remember from school that in 1907 we started suppressing Tohunga but school never taught me why our political system is like it is and how democracy developed. The reason history was taught like this is because the powers that be believed because something happened in New Zealand it must be relevant to New Zealand's national identity and what happened in England (and elsewhere to a lesser extent) couldn't be relevant.

No one is forced to identify with the Queen. Can you point out where I said that? I think she would be disappointed to lose New Zealand but she would let us go if we want to. All you have to do is to convince 50% of the country we are better off without her. That's all. We could have voted for a republic at any point since about 1945 and no one wanted to before then anyway. In America 60% of people are "forced" to have a president they don't like. They have that president they don't like because they voted for him; we have a Queen because there is not significant enough public support for a referendum. No one is forced to do anything. Some people just had to turn off their tv's for a week.
 
Sanzar is demonising them and that is when I feel my culture is being stepped on. If you think the comments that the British are just back stabbing ****s isn't offensive, demonising or unappreciative of British influence on our society then, well, let's just say I strongly disagree and leave it there.
Where did I say the British are "just back stabbing ****s"? I didn't. I stated the historical fact that we've not simply not benefited from being connected to Britain since federation, but that it's actually been damaging to us precisely because of British backstabbing. That's not the same as saying they're just back stabbing ****s. For the record, plenty of people in both Australia and New Zealand considered the Singapore solution to be a monument betrayal of trust.

No one is forced to identify with the Queen. Can you point out where I said that? I think she would be disappointed to lose New Zealand but she would let us go if we want to. All you have to do is to convince 50% of the country we are better off without her. That's all. We could have voted for a republic at any point since about 1945 and no one wanted to before then anyway. In America 60% of people are "forced" to have a president they don't like. They have that president they don't like because they voted for him; we have a Queen because there is not significant enough public support for a referendum. No one is forced to do anything. Some people just had to turn off their tv's for a week.

That's a poor analogy; governments are subject to cyclical elections, so a Monarch head of state is hardly the same thing to have a Prime Minister you don't like but can vote against every 3 year. Building up to a constitutional referendum is far more complex and isn't a given. The Monarch isn't subject to any democratic process outside of that.

At the end of the day history will always be there. England is in reality largely an off-shoot of Roman civilisation much like the rest of Europe (heck "Britain" and "London" are both Roman names after all, and Roman culture retains a considerable presence in Britain even after all this time), but where you start and what you are change. And the symbols of Australia and NZ in terms of our flags and head of state are symbols of colonies that are still feeding off their mother country.

As I've said, I have yet to see anyone provide me with an example of how Australia has benefited from our close relationship with Britain in the last 100 years, and I think we're sufficiently separate now for us to stop borrowing our identity off them.
 
It seems clear that SANZARs reasons for wanting a split from the monarchy are borne out of a deep seated hatred of Britain and supposed British betrayal coupled with a pretty poor grasp of history. In the same way Scots watch films like Braveheart and hate the English, Americans watch the Patriot and hate the British, I strongly suspect SANZAR watched Gallipoli and has treated that as a true representation of what actually happened. To somehow claim Australia came out of WW2 in such a terrible condition and that the nasty Brits let them get all hurt is laughable considering the Brits went through far more hardship than Australia ever did.

Turning back to the monarchy, the primary argument in it's favour is simply is it really worth the effort to try and change it? Starting a new country, there would be no monarchy. However it is there and inertia is maintaining it. Lastly to call it taxpayer subsidised shows your ignorance. The monarchy gets money from the sovereign grant which is 15% of the income generated from crown estates. No taxpayer money goes to the monarchy at all.
 
It seems clear that SANZARs reasons for wanting a split from the monarchy are borne out of a deep seated hatred of Britain and supposed British betrayal coupled with a pretty poor grasp of history. In the same way Scots watch films like Braveheart and hate the English, Americans watch the Patriot and hate the British, I strongly suspect SANZAR watched Gallipoli and has treated that as a true representation of what actually happened. To somehow claim Australia came out of WW2 in such a terrible condition and that the nasty Brits let them get all hurt is laughable considering the Brits went through far more hardship than Australia ever did.

Turning back to the monarchy, the primary argument in it's favour is simply is it really worth the effort to try and change it? Starting a new country, there would be no monarchy. However it is there and inertia is maintaining it. Lastly to call it taxpayer subsidised shows your ignorance. The monarchy gets money from the sovereign grant which is 15% of the income generated from crown estates. No taxpayer money goes to the monarchy at all.

He'd be even more confused considering the ANZAC compain to Gallipoli was during WW1 ;).

As it is, it was a terribly managed compaign in which English generals cost thousands of ANZAC lives. But they also costs thousands of English lives too. They were incompetant and arrogant and used to a system of war which was heavily outdated - so marching out of trenches into machine gun fire was considered a 'good idea'. Regardless more Brits actually died in Galipolli, and there were plenty of French and Indian troops that died too and overall it was just a big mess.
 
It seems clear that SANZARs reasons for wanting a split from the monarchy are borne out of a deep seated hatred of Britain and supposed British betrayal coupled with a pretty poor grasp of history. In the same way Scots watch films like Braveheart and hate the English, Americans watch the Patriot and hate the British, I strongly suspect SANZAR watched Gallipoli and has treated that as a true representation of what actually happened. To somehow claim Australia came out of WW2 in such a terrible condition and that the nasty Brits let them get all hurt is laughable considering the Brits went through far more hardship than Australia ever did.

Jesus, a couple comments on Britain's crap record in our region Australia that culminated in a downright betrayal in World War II (yes, it was a betrayal) and suddenly I have a "deep seated hatred" of all things British. You really needn't get so upset, all I'm telling you are the facts. And the facts are that when Australia asked for assistance in WW1 to protect our borders (a recurring issue it seems) Britain told us Japan would look after it. This was a slap in the face in spite of the alliance, as London knew full well what the concerns were in Canberra. The follow up in Singapore was worse, with much more informed Australian advice on the region being flatly ignored by London. Singapore was annihilated in record time, and so plenty of people here (particularly the Labor party) considered it a massive betrayal.

I'm sure British kids get taught that your ruling elite did everything they could for us and really cared, but the fact is they viewed Australia mostly as collateral and weren't ever prepared to invest the resources the leadership in Canberra assumed our close-nit relationship would assure us.

To be honest, I'm fine with that. The real tragedy is how the penny took so long to drop that Australia's strategic interests are too far removed from Britain to ever be given any real care. It's a simple reflection of the tyranny of distance at play and the decline of British power from 1850 to 1950 (during which time British debt exceeded 250% of GDP twice). But given all that, don't tell me that Australia's connection with Britain has any worth anymore. In economic, strategic and political terms the only thing it's been symbolic of for the past 100 years is Australia's inability to grasp that we have to be political realists in our region and stop pretending the Commonwealth means anything our in our part of the world.
 
When you say Singapore solution is that some twisted way of comparing the loss of Singapore to the Nazi's final solution? I really do hope not.

Do you have any concept at what was going on in Britain during the invasion of Singapore? You know the battle of the Atlantic, North Africa, the Blitz etc?
 
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When you say Singapore solution is that some twisted way of comparing the loss of Singapore to the Nazi's final solution? I really do hope not.

Do you have any concept at what was going on in Britain during the invasion of Singapore? You know the battle of the Atlantic, North Africa, the Blitz etc?

You really have taken this personally haven't you Tallshort?

Of course I'm aware Britain was fighting a war at home. But if you don't know that what happened with Singapore was widely considered a betrayal here because of the complete disregard shown to Australian advice, then you're clearly only getting the English side of the story.

In any case, my central point is - and has been throughout - that our history since Federation provides no reasons for Australia to continue maintaining its connection to Britain via your monarchy. Moreover, even if the relationship had provided some benefits, as an institution the Monarchy is the antithesis of the values we pretend to hold of equality, fairness and opportunity.
 
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