An open letter to World Rugby.

[ncurd]

I don't really want to play *** for tat on this subject of who knows who.

The reality is a lot of ex-rugby players don't know the laws that well and even get the basics wrong. @smartcooky is an ex-level 2 referee and has access to private referee forums, just accept if he's telling you something is the law in rugby he's 99% going to be right unless you really know what your talking about.

The simple side of this argument is it's the direction you pass the ball in not the direction it goes that matters if you read the laws.

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On the physics side without any Maths,

1) You are travelling by boat and are passing some whales.
2) In the time it take you to complete any jump the ship passes a whole whale.
3) If you jump vertically the boat does not travel beneath you and the boat still pass the whale.
4) If you jump backwards you go backwards relative to the boat (but only a small amount) but you and the boat pass the whale.

Number 4 is what happens when you pass the ball backwards but it still travels forwards.

So change replace that entire example into a rugby analogy, the boat is the player with the ball, a jump is pass, you are the ball and whale is the 22 yard line.

As you/the boat have jumped/passed the ball backwards it doesn't matter that you/the ball have passed the whale/22 yard line.

 

[gamine]

Gamine.....the laws of physics? uhhhhmm OK? Have you ever heard of Earnest Rutherford?

Ask your late husband a simple fact............is it possible to pass a ball in motion whilst running forwards or backwards. Rather simple question really considering physics

Haven't stopped laughing since I saw your post!

First of all the name is Ernest Rutherford, although I expect he was a very earnest man!

Secondly, my husband is not 'late' - unless he has been to the pub.

Thirdly, the question you pose is complete nonsense.

All the best!

 

[Bo Jandals]

Is Gamine a French name?

Why don't I trust you? Here's a clue......it's in the NAME, I'm not saying I don't trust the French, I'm just saying I don't trust Gamine.

You're Awesome Gamine, just not one I'd trust

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Haven't stopped laughing since I saw your post!

First of all the name is Ernest Rutherford, although I expect he was a very earnest man!

Secondly, my husband is not 'late' - unless he has been to the pub.

Thirdly, the question you pose is complete nonsense.

All the best!

Breeding Brilliant

 

[smartcooky]

Having discussed this matter with my husband, ex-rugby player and PhD, Nuclear Physics, he assures me that this is all nonsense, and what we see as a forward pass is, in fact, a forward pass!

Then I suggest your Nuclear Physicist husband needs a refresher course in the basics of his profession!

He can start here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_of_reference


Frankly, I think you are on the wind up, so I'm not going to waste my time with someone who denies the obvious!



*** ignore listed.

 

[gamine]

Eh. Perhaps your husband could explain why this is "all nonsense". Everything that smartcooky and others have patiently and eloquently explained is in line with everything I have ever read from rugby authorities.

I will do my best, but my husband is a thoroughly intelligent and sensible man, who doesn't waste his time posting on forums!

I think that the point of the argument, and possibly all that matters, is whether a team gains an unfair advantage from the way a ball is thrown.

If the law says that the ball must be passed backwards, then it means that the person catching the ball must not be in front of the thrower, when the ball is thrown. We all agree, that this constitutes a forward pass.

To throw a pass backwards, whilst running at speed is a difficult thing to do, but a skill long practised by rugby players. It is equally difficult for supporting runners to time their supporting run to take the pass without going in front of the thrower. The referee must stop the game if the latter occurs, and it does occur quite often, or did, until, in the name of making the game more 'entertaining,' the flat,or lateral, pass was allowed; easier to throw and catch, and leading to more tries, as it is in the build up to a try that this situation most often occurs.

Now we have the forward pass, or the pass in which the player is in front, albeit sometimes only fractionally, when he catches the ball and, as we have already agreed, this is a forward pass.

 

[ncurd]

Yeah your husband needs to read the actual laws as opposed to what he thinks the laws are.

Link in smartcooky's signature.

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Essentially you and husband are confusing direction thrown/passed with direction travelled.
http://laws.worldrugby.org/?law=12&i=111
It does not say the ball can't travel forwards.

 

[gamine]

Is Gamine a French name?

Why don't I trust you? Here's a clue......it's in the NAME, I'm not saying I don't trust the French, I'm just saying I don't trust Gamine.

You're Awesome Gamine, just not one I'd trust

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Breeding Brilliant

Hey Bo Jandals - like your name! Nothing sinister in my name, I was just trying to think of something for this forum, it's quite difficult, so I thought of 'game', as in game of rugby, but that's not very inspiring, so I turned it into 'gamine', which means, 'attractively boyish' Unfortunately I am no longer attractive, and certainly not boyish!

I am a great fan of the game of rugby, ever since I had to take the 1st team shirts home to wash after the match on a Saturday, and sew back the numbers that had been ripped off during the game!

Looking forward to the final and hoping for an epic game, may the best team win. I will miss it when it is all over and hope to still be alive for the next one!

 

[gamine]

I think that it is you who are a little confused!

If you read my last post you will have understood, I hope, that I am not arguing about whether the ball goes forwards, backwards or all the way to Timbuctoo, but where the receiver is when the ball is caught. I think we all agree, don't we, that this player must not be in front of the thrower when he catches the ball, and that if he is, then that must be seen as a forward throw or pass.

With the so-called 'lateral pass' the receiver is often in front of the thrower , albeit sometimes only fractionally, but enough for it to be an illegal throw.So ignore the physics, which I would like to bet my husband knows a lot more about than you do,do you even have a degree in physics, let alone a doctorate?, and use some common sense!

This in reply to Ncurd

 

[ncurd]

I think that it is you who are a little confused!

If you read my last post you will have understood, I hope, that I am not arguing about whether the ball goes forwards, backwards or all the way to Timbuctoo, but where the receiver is when the ball is caught. I think we all agree, don't we, that this player must not be in front of the thrower when he catches the ball, and that if he is, then that must be seen as a forward throw or pass.

With the so-called 'lateral pass' the receiver is often in front of the thrower , albeit sometimes only fractionally, but enough for it to be an illegal throw.So ignore the physics, which I would like to bet my husband knows a lot more about than you do,do you even have a degree in physics, let alone a doctorate?, and use some common sense!

This in reply to Ncurd

Oh FFS NO WE DO NOT AGREEE and you continue to not listen to single thing that is written. You have been told multiple times that the ball can travel forwards and it not being a forward pass. Multiple people have explained to you why this is the case.

As for husband he can do one because he clearly knows sod all. I did this basic level GCSE physics well over 15 years ago whilst I understand the fundemental rule of physics is everything you've been taught is wrong at the next level the simple principals are for layman's and still explain simply why things happen. No I don't have a degree or doctorate in physics but on equal measure I'm not trying to explain how a nuclear reactor works this is basic newtonian physics to why it's not forward pass.

And before you insult my intelligence again I suggest you think about the anonymity of the Internet and you could be talking to anyone. You do not know my background, you do not know how smart I am and you certainly don't know what I capable of understanding which is lot more than you and your brilliant husband have proven so far.

Christ your like my mother in law thinking she's an electrician or a paramedic be a use she happened to be married to one.

Either listen or shut up we are getting nowhere here and it's not from the member of this board lack of trying.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

People, it's a troll. Use the ignore function ffs.

 

[ncurd]

People, it's a troll. Use the ignore function ffs.

Yeah I know but sometimes I just have to type this stuff out otherwise my brain explodes and I can't concentrate on anything else.

I haven't quote resorted to contacting my cousin who has a PHD in astrophysics quite yet though. Did contact my best mate who has a degree in it though just to check I'm not completely nuts

 

[gamine]

Yeah I know but sometimes I just have to type this stuff out otherwise my brain explodes and I can't concentrate on anything else.

I haven't quote resorted to contacting my cousin who has a PHD in astrophysics quite yet though. Did contact my best mate who has a degree in it though just to check I'm not completely nuts

Calm down,boys! xx

 

[OverGore]

"gamine" means little kid girl or a stupid woman in french.

 

[Bluemoon]

"gamine" means little kid girl or a stupid woman in french.

lol! +1

 

[gamine]

I said in my previous post that knocking the referees is not a good thing; but criticism were criticism is due.

The first try Australia scored from an interception was from an offside position.

The second try scored was from a non knock on by Argentina.

The last try of the game was a forward pass.

So that is 21 point that should not have been!

Now the refereeing of this tournament has been a blight and it has got worse as the tournament has gone on. Rugby refereeing is falling apart at the seams and it is not an acceptable position for teams to be losing games due to poor and incorrect calls.

If people thing this is an acceptable standard then quite simply "they are off their rockers and have not got a value! "

This is not acceptable for fans who pay one heck of a lot of money to sub standard refereeing that costs their teams a place.

Rugby is becoming a joke!

Referees are bring the game into disrepute and World Rugby have got the cheek to say the refereeing standard has been good.

Nigle ownes is the ref at the final and he is the best referee in the world.

HE IS THE BEST OF A POOR BUNCH AND I am sorry about this but it's not good enough, for the fans and the players!!!!!

GET A GRIP - WORLD RUGBY.

I am a fan of the game who is getting disenfranchiesd with:

The standard of refereeing and the Excuses coming from World Rugby to try and cover the inaquacies of the game.

RWC 2015 = an unjust standard for re by fans.

To finish I have not heard so much booing of referees as I have in this tournament and that picture tells a thousand words.

I could not agree more! I have wasted precious hours arguing with some on this thread about the prevalence of the forward pass in today's game, only to be told that I am a troll, that I don't understand the physics of the pass in rugby, and I remind someone of their mother-in-law!

I'm sorry, but forward passes are ignored, along with crooked feeds at the scrum, flopping on top at the break down, obstruction in the form of jumping over at the break down, and blocking opponents a la American football, wriggling and turning over at the breakdown to prevent the opposition getting the ball, offside at the breakdown, not straight at the lineout, and as for the scrum, the refs have no idea what's going on!

The worst aspect of the refereeing is that refs will indeed penalise for some of these infringements, but only for some and not for all. I know the refs can't see everything, but they do have assistants, and they needn't ignore infringements that take place right under their noses! They will say that they want to keep the game flowing, but that cannot be an excuse for cheating, and the more the players get away with it the more we will see of it.

 

[OverGore]

I could not agree more! I have wasted precious hours arguing with some on this thread about the prevalence of the forward pass in today's game, only to be told that I am a troll, that I don't understand the physics of the pass in rugby, and I remind someone of their mother-in-law!

I'm sorry, but forward passes are ignored, along with crooked feeds at the scrum, flopping on top at the break down, obstruction in the form of jumping over at the break down, and blocking opponents a la American football, wriggling and turning over at the breakdown to prevent the opposition getting the ball, offside at the breakdown, not straight at the lineout, and as for the scrum, the refs have no idea what's going on!

The worst aspect of the refereeing is that refs will indeed penalise for some of these infringements, but only for some and not for all. I know the refs can't see everything, but they do have assistants, and they needn't ignore infringements that take place right under their noses! They will say that they want to keep the game flowing, but that cannot be an excuse for cheating, and the more the players get away with it the more we will see of it.

i suggest you switch to ping pong, rugby seems to really annoy you

 

[Fard]

Long time Ref and have slow motion video of all this in Ref coaching sessions with Ballymore marked out with 5 mtr lines. The ball passed backwards out of the hands while running at speed will always be caught in front of the person passing the ball.
This is due to the laws of physics. We as refs have always been coached to watch the hands of the player passing the ball. End of story.

 

[gamine]

"gamine" means little kid girl or a stupid woman in french.

gamine is the feminine form of gamin, which, in French, means a playful waif or street urchin.

 

[RoosTah]

I could not agree more! I have wasted precious hours arguing with some on this thread about the prevalence of the forward pass in today's game, only to be told that I am a troll, that I don't understand the physics of the pass in rugby, and I remind someone of their mother-in-law!

Honestly, the reason people are dismissive of this complaint is that for very good reasons up until recently the TMO wasn't allowed to review forward passes because of the difficulty of getting non-distortive camera angles and taking into account motion. But to put it simply, when ruling on whether a pass is forward, the most important thing isn't actually the place the ball ends up, but rather the direction of the players hand motion as he passes it.

Go back and watch the footage of Mitchell's try again and it's blatantly obvious he's passing the ball backward out of the hands. The touch judge was right in line and saw that clear as day, which is why idiots like Woodward were the only ones bleeting about it.

 

[gamine]

Long time Ref and have slow motion video of all this in Ref coaching sessions with Ballymore marked out with 5 mtr lines. The ball passed backwards out of the hands while running at speed will always be caught in front of the person passing the ball.
This is due to the laws of physics. We as refs have always been coached to watch the hands of the player passing the ball. End of story.

Thank you for your civil comments.

I would say, however, I have just watched some footage of tries being scored, and the ball is certainly not always caught in front of the person passing the ball.

I appreciate that passing with the hands facing forward is a good indication of a forward pass, but what do you do when the passer and receiver are running parallel to one another, the ball is flicked sideways and you cannot see in which direction the hands are facing, is this a forward pass?

I would appreciate your opinion.