All Blacks final World Cup squad?

[Larksea]

yeah ive said it here already a few times, the Piutau non selection has to be due to the sour contract negotiations. Hansen was clearly ****** off about how they went and how piutau signed overseas at the last minute after what seemed like successful NZRU negotiations.

I could understand Hansen's view of it, I would be ****** off too. But if you even say that put Piutau in a situation where he had to play his arse off to make the squad, he's done that, he Aced it. He was the form back in the first three tests this year. Man of the match against South Africa.

But it's clear Form and ability were put aside and he was cut. And as I said interestingly with Hika Elliot & Moala also not getting a look in we've basically got a squad of 31 squeaky clean players.

I know naholo has burst onto the scene as a very special player, but all stories and fairytales asside, he's injured, he can't play till the 3rd game, he's inexperienced, 50min of test rugby to his name, he's never toured Europe. Naholo really really needed games against Aussie & South africa to get some genuine test experience, he only lasted 50min against Argentina.

We're in a very real scenario where Naholo's first real test is going to be a WC knockout match!?

Ive seen a bit of talk about how the All Blacks had a behind closed doors internal trial match and how apparently Naholo played the house down. I have no idea if that's true, it does sound more like a fairytale...

The other factor which I've said before is that Savea is down on form & condition. IMO Piutau is the Best option at 11, the best option if Savea doesn't find form. And IMO I dont think Savea is doing the right things to turn his form around.

I really hope Naholo pays off, but I cant help but feel the non-selection of Piutau is a flat out mistake and Ive never been Piutau's biggest fan.

*****ing asside, posative news about the All Blacks squad:

- Retalick & Whitelock are IMO the best locking combo in world rugby today and arguably the best combo we've ever had.
- We have an experienced front row, coles has been a standout.
- Dan Carter seems to have come through a lot and is playing good rugby when we really needed him.
- I think barrett is finally getting over his ****les and injuries that he's been working through. His speed will play a part in this WC.
- Our loose forward Trio is best in the world. And we have world class backups.
- Nonu seems to be in the form of his life, it's quite staggering.
- People hate on SBW but he's very good, we saw just how good against argentina he was injured in warmup against Aussie which gave the haters more amo but I think he'll be good. He's also a superb defender.
- Aaron Smith is the best halfback we have had in.... basically forever. Little down on form recently post the S15 win but he will be good.
- Perenara has finally emerged as a genuine backup.
- While I always say x-factor wingers have never won a world cup, Nehe & Naholo have the potential to change that.
- We have Ben Smith

 

[Regan]

How good of a tackler is Skudder?

Wasn't that great for Manawatu last year (60 something %) but really upped it this year for the Canes, so a lot more reliable. He's a better FB, that was proven in Super Rugby this year - not to say he's not good on the wing either. He played a bit there last year for Manawatu also but it's evident he prefers FB.

 

[nickdnz]

My thoughts:

Front row: For me it's an areas which offers a little bit of disappointment. Moody has not yet had a bad game for the All Blacks but I can understand why taking three specialist loose heads would be a bit of a luxury, especially with Ben Franks also named. However one must feel Faumuina is in the squad to cover tight head, rather than just his versatility (as Woodcock, Crockett and Ben Franks can all play LH) - and I think he is a very average scrummager, to the point I cannot recall him ever having a standout day in the scrum for the All Blacks. Nepo Laulala has scrummmaged very, very effectively against all opposition in a season which looked like a remarkable rise. I understand going for experience, but Faumuina has been found wanting, and is coming off an injury (he was hardly exceptional for Auckland in his 40 minutes to push anyone out...). In fairness, Faumuina is probably the marginally busier player when fit, and he has an alright tight driving game. It's not a big issue - Laulaula's young and his time will come - but it is a selection I'd not have made.

Second Row: Probably my biggest grumble in this squad is Luke Romano. I don't know what he does to get selected. There is clearly something I am missing because he looks to me like a solid Super Rugby squad member at best. His lineout work is alright, but it's not like he performs notably better at this than the other locks. His scrumming is apparently a big asset - but I haven't seen the scrum improve notably with him on either. What is more frustrating is that he was touted as a lock which could act as a good hit-up option. He's not. He is frankly awful in this aspect as he runs upright and rarely make it past the advantage line. Broadhurst has a better work rate, more skill, and at least when he runs upright he has the skill to offload out of the tackle, or break the advantage line. Jeremy Thrush is another who has drastically improved his defence and workrate. Heck, I'd go with Dominic Bird who has similar problems as Romano - but at least has genuine size and potential. I'm more gutted about losing Patrick Tuipolotu now I know Romano is there...here is hoping Whitelock and Retallick don't pick up an injury.

Loose-Forwards: Very predictable selections. Probably the right bunch of guys guying. I'm not a massive Messam fan, but he's solid enough that I'm not particularly bothered by his selection.

Scrum-Half: Have to say TKB is very lucky to be there. Hansen mentioned a lot that he was selected for his defensive game - which TKB does have a very effective defensive game - but I can't help but feel he has consistently looked a bit too slow in delivering fast ball, which is where the All Blacks beat every other team in. I prefer him over Andy Ellis -I could send a ball to Daniel Carter through the post faster than Any Ellis can get it to him - but Brad Weber would have been my pick. Very similar to Aaron Smith, and I like continuity.

Fly Halves: Talked to death a bit on this. Slade or Sopoaga? It's pretty close. Sopoaga had the better season. Slade offers more utility and some experience (although had a shocking RWC last time around). Based on Barrett being there I'd have gone with Sopoaga - as I think Slade's utility factor is overstated at best. He's not a halfback - a few average minutes there doesn't change that for me. He's not a wing, short of it being the easiest backline position to defend from. He is a good flyhalf and a solid fullback - who has the ability to interchange nicely at first receiver with Barrett when they both play. What does make sense is three halfbacks and three fly halves, so glad they went this way.

Centres: I feel sorry for Ryan Crotty. He is not an "x-factor" type of player, in a similar way as Conrad Smith isn't, but he does the basics very well and takes the right options. I never used to rate him particularly highly at all, in fact I was pretty critical of his selection to begin with. But he has never looked out of his depth at international level - and he is a far better option taker than either of SBW and Fekitoa (which is probably where I would be most critical of both of those players). I probably would have taken him over SBW, who has come off of a pretty average Chiefs season, and shown poor form in his recent decision making. That said there isn't much in it, and me not liking SBW probably has a fair bit to do with it has well.

Outside Backs: Well, I'm happy with our options. Piatau is leaving and that counts against him, particularly as there seemed to be a lack of transparency between him and the NZRU. Some think he was pushing for a starting position, I tend not to agree. He is probably good enough to be in the squad, but I'm happy that the NZRU have likely taken a stand and not selected him. Winning the RWC is an important goal, but not if it compromises NZ's ability to retain players and consistently win outside of that four year cycle. I was critical last RWC for Sonny Bill Williams being given every exception possible to make the last RWC (and similarly this year) - and if you are a 23 year old player who hasn't established a long career with the All Blacks or is even the incumbent - being included in the squad over other young guys who are also talented as well as committed - is just a bad look and is bad for player retention. Sounds harsh, but it means we will probably see a few more guys commit past the next RWC next time around.

Cory Jane would have been my preference anyway (which according to some is a ridiculous case of favouritism), but the only reason I wouldn't be playing Naholo or NMS on the right wing in a knock out game, is if I thought a safety first option was 100% necessary. Cory Jane in my mind is still the safest wing we have. He is amazing in the air, can kick well, has good vision and very good hands. He lacks the pace he once had which makes him on quite the threat he used to be, but it's not like his form has dropped. He has been consistent for the Hurricanes and has looked good so far for Wellington. Add that he is already commited till 2017 (whether his legs will be up to the task or not). That said, not including him means we just have to back who are there, and who is there are some of the most exciting outside backs we've had since 2007.

Dagg missing out is big, but pretty clearly the right call IMO.

 

[Kiwi_]

Selecting Corey Jane would have been the classic example of selecting too many aged players. Tough knock out tournament, Jane is injury prone, older and not on the same level the other outside backs are on. Picking him because he's 'safe' is far too conservative and takes way too much of our edge. Granted he's still a good player, but he doesn't come close any more. We've done the right thing and gone with youth on the outside backs, which is an area where young players shine at RWCs.

 

[CaliRa1]

Cruden would have gone, he was the incumbent out of Slade and Barrett.

Slade just offers more that Sopoanga does in terms of cover and is proven at this level.



The problem was created by Hansen not Piutau, after the 2007 loss and EOYT loss to England 2 years ago we came out and said that no longer can we just select senior players based on past performances, they need to earn there spots.

Yet we persisted with Jane over Piutau quite often, so in all fairness Piutau made a call to go for the money, if he had secured that starting spot when everyone knows he deserved it then he may not have gone.

That is true
Cruden would've been there over Slade
Tuipulotu over Romano
Luatua over Messam
Sopoaga is probably the closest thing to Cruden in NZ or West but Slade has done enough in AB camp to warrant selection
There's always going to be a solid 15 players that could / should be selected but are left behind during RWC year lets just hope that we're the more prepared team

 

[nzlizard]

Luatua over Messam

Not based on this season, Luatua didn't really perform in my eyes, pretty quiet effort this season.

 

[Mcfadden]

Grant Fox says the choice of the extra first five eight was between Carter and Sopoaga, not Slade and Sopoaga. Carter was never a certainty.

"Realistically it was probably more down to a choice of Lima v Daniel rather than the other two, who offered some versatility," Fox said.

"We've always considered Beauden Barrett and Colin Slade as five eighths...

"Lima demanded it (selection against South Africa) because of his form ...Daniel responded to that."

Carter began to fire in the dismantling of Australia at Eden Park and it now seems that only then did he confirm his place in the World Cup squad.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11505666&ref=NZH_FBpage

 

[Kiwi_]

Luatua would not have been picked over Messam.

I think Laulala will be a player we regret not taking.

 

[rugby_mad]

i'm really disappointed Sopoaga has missed out! what on earth is Hansen thinking? if "versatility" is what the selectors care about, Sopoaga offers the specialist five-eight cover to Carter, and both Skudder and Barrett can back up Ben Smith if require.. Slade?!

some say Piutau was overlooked due to him going overseas after RWC.. come on, isn't Slade leaving for France after RWC?

and i couldn't understand Kerr-Barlow and Faumuina were picked despite not clocking any decent test mileage?! i would rather have 2 scrum-halves and include Cory Jane!

i really hope the "x factor" Naholo brings will enable All Blacks to lift the World Cup again.

Not the ideal squad i wish for, but god bless All Blacks!!

 

[Mcfadden]

2 halfbacks was never going to happen. As much as I'd have LOVED to have seen Webber there, I can't deny TKB brings something different. Passing game isn't super strong but he's one of the best defensive halfbacks in the world and he's physical. I kinda agree on Charlie but like I said from the start, versatility is key and I think some posters are forgetting about his strengths. They were never going to take Sopoaga AND Carter. Doesn't make any sense.

 

[nickdnz]

some say Piutau was overlooked due to him going overseas after RWC.. come on, isn't Slade leaving for France after RWC?

So is Daniel Carter, point is none of the other players are 23 years old, and all of them have been transparent in contract negotiations.

Piatau was clearly being invested in as part of their long term plans - and signing off shore without discussing with the AB management is just dumb. Steve Tewe probably had ad much to do with Piutau's omission has Hanson.

 

[rugby_mad]

2 halfbacks was never going to happen. As much as I'd have LOVED to have seen Webber there, I can't deny TKB brings something different. Passing game isn't super strong but he's one of the best defensive halfbacks in the world and he's physical. I kinda agree on Charlie but like I said from the start, versatility is key and I think some posters are forgetting about his strengths. They were never going to take Sopoaga AND Carter. Doesn't make any sense.

indeed Faumuina when fit, is immense at breakdown.. i hope he has overcome his injuries.

i suppose there is no better 3rd choice half back other than TKB, he has to repay the faith shown on him!

- - - Updated - - -

So is Daniel Carter, point is none of the other players are 23 years old, and all of them have been transparent in contract negotiations.

Piatau was clearly being invested in as part of their long term plans - and signing off shore without discussing with the AB management is just dumb. Steve Tewe probably had ad much to do with Piutau's omission has Hanson.

i have to agree with you.. Piutau may have just screwed his world cup chance away the minute he puts pen to the overseas contract.

 

[Kiwi_]

I to am really sad for Lima, it's a shame really. I wish he had more exposure. There just weren't enough games to fully let him get in there. It's not an injustice he's going. Either way he could end up playing a part. Barrett looks like he's carrying an injury to me. In the final 10 minutes of the Otago Taranaki game he was limping, AGAIN. I don't think we've seen the last of some players. There will be injuries.

 

[austingtir]

indeed Faumuina when fit, is immense at breakdown.. i hope he has overcome his injuries.

i suppose there is no better 3rd choice half back other than TKB, he has to repay the faith shown on him!

- - - Updated - - -



i have to agree with you.. Piutau may have just screwed his world cup chance away the minute he puts pen to the overseas contract.

I agree about Piutau but im not so sure. I think that when you have 3 players of the same/similar ability and two of them ARE going to be here next year they are all of similar age how is this a difficult decision? I just dont think it is.

The way I see it if I was the coach THAT IS COACHING THE TEAM NEXT YEAR id be attempting to select as many players as possible that will be useful to me next year as well. Its only going to take one team at this WC playing out of their skin or a Ref with no clue (Barnes) and we are out of this WC.

We've heard whispers that even Carters head was on the chopping block and only his games against Australia have probably saved his bacon. I think Hansen's been pretty fair with how he's gone about selecting this side.

 

[smartcooky]

Scrum-Half: Have to say TKB is very lucky to be there. Hansen mentioned a lot that he was selected for his defensive game - which TKB does have a very effective defensive game - but I can't help but feel he has consistently looked a bit too slow in delivering fast ball, which is where the All Blacks beat every other team in. I prefer him over Andy Ellis -I could send a ball to Daniel Carter through the post faster than Any Ellis can get it to him - but Brad Weber would have been my pick. Very similar to Aaron Smith, and I like continuity.

The only thing I can think of here is that this World Cup is in England/Wales. Its not exactly known for its hard, fast grounds and sunny days, especially in the Autumn.

I can see a real possibility of us facing a tough opponent in a game of attrition in a play-off match on a wet track. For that scenario, long passes and the running game are not what you need from a scrum-half. Its the sort of situation that is custom made for a scrum-half like TKB, tough, gritty defender and a high percentage first-up tackler, the sort of player who can make the fringes of the ruck a closed shop.

 

[Kiwi_]

Yeah haven't got much issue with TKB going, he's phyiscal halfback, Weber is just another Aaron Smith, gotta have more depth and dynamics in positions than just clones of players.

 

[nzlizard]

The only thing I can think of here is that this World Cup is in England/Wales. Its not exactly known for its hard, fast grounds and sunny days, especially in the Autumn.

I can see a real possibility of us facing a tough opponent in a game of attrition in a play-off match on a wet track. For that scenario, long passes and the running game are not what you need from a scrum-half. Its the sort of situation that is custom made for a scrum-half like TKB, tough, gritty defender and a high percentage first-up tackler, the sort of player who can make the fringes of the ruck a closed shop.

We play our pools games over 19 days, we have 8 days until the playoffs, and then 3 games in 14 days if you make it all the way.

Can see him getting 1 start and maybe a bench position depending on the conditions.

The way I see it if I was the coach THAT IS COACHING THE TEAM NEXT YEAR id be attempting to select as many players as possible that will be useful to me next year as well. Its only going to take one team at this WC playing out of their skin or a Ref with no clue (Barnes) and we are out of this WC.

We've heard whispers that even Carters head was on the chopping block and only his games against Australia have probably saved his bacon. I think Hansen's been pretty fair with how he's gone about selecting this side.

I agree, although winning the WC is of more importance, no one will care if you lose 2 games in a rebuilding stage after winning the world cup, but losing the WC final, no one forgets that.

I read the article on the Carter selection http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11505666 easy for Fox to say anything really, we will never know, but one feels that the Carter selection was one of the more obvious, given his game time and the fact he had hit form.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

on slade vs Sopoaga, I suspect it was very close but Slade got the call because they went for Naholo over piutau - so less fullback options (Barret having hardly played there, especially for the all blacks, except off teh bench. milne-skudder having never played there for the ABs) sure slade hasn't looked great playing fullback of late, but he was particularly adept there at the start of his super rugby career (it was actually the year Dagg made his debut for the all blacks, and I was preditcing slade to make it instead). I kinda think of slade as halfway between leon macdonald and andrew mehrtens, as he possesses qualities of both, just not to the extent of either.

Laulala missing out is a worry to me. I think he's our best scrummager, adn if he had been there I reckon he could have ended up s our starting tighthead by the end of our campaign.

Naholo is obviously very good, especially under pressure. but considering he's not fit, You do have to wonder if he is there because he broke an overseas contract to make himself available, whereas piutau signed an overseas contract as an incumbent.

 

[nickdnz]

The only thing I can think of here is that this World Cup is in England/Wales. Its not exactly known for its hard, fast grounds and sunny days, especially in the Autumn.

I can see a real possibility of us facing a tough opponent in a game of attrition in a play-off match on a wet track. For that scenario, long passes and the running game are not what you need from a scrum-half. Its the sort of situation that is custom made for a scrum-half like TKB, tough, gritty defender and a high percentage first-up tackler, the sort of player who can make the fringes of the ruck a closed shop.

And I'm sure that is Hanson's thinking as well (and it makes sense).

I think the NH rugby grounds are a little bit of a myth. I think we are equally effective scoring tries in the NH as we are down here. A possible reason for including Kerr-Barlow is that we seem less capable of defending in the NH (but in fairness, home advantage probably has a lot to do with it). Taking the last three years (which is when the scores have likely been some of their closest) - the disparity of tries we score over in Europe is pretty small over New Zealand. We can see that we still win games by scoring more tries than oppositions, and we risk losing when we don't.

2014:
In the UK
NZ v England in England: 3 tries to 2.
NZ v Scotland 2 tries to 1.
NZ vs Wales 5 tries to 1

In NZ
NZ v England: 1 try to 0
NZ v England: 3 tries to 3
NZ v England: 5 tries to 1

2013:
In Europe:
NZ v France: 2 tries to 1
NZ v England: 3 tries to 1
NZ v Ireland: 3 tries to 3

In NZ:
NZ v France: 2 tries to 1
NZ v France: 3 tries to 0
NZ vs France: 2 tries to 0

2012:
In Europe:
NZ vs Scotland: 6 tries to 3
NZ vs Italy 5 tries to 1
NZ vs Wales: 3 tries to 2
NZ vs England: 3 tries to 3

In NZ:
NZ vs Ireland: 5 tries to 1
NZ vs Ireland: 1 try to 1
NZ vs Ireland: 9 tries to 0

Average number of tries we score in Europe per game: 3.5
Average number of tries we score at home per game: 3.4

Average number of tries we concede in Europe per game: 1.8
Average number of tries we concede at home per game: 0.7

 

[CaliRa1]

Not based on this season, Luatua didn't really perform in my eyes, pretty quiet effort this season.

Luatua would've been selected over Messam
Messam has that mongrel that Luatua doesn't but would've been able to cover Lock which is where they intend to have Kaino cover if I'm correct
Vito can cover all loose forward positions better than Messam and Luatua would've been able to cover lock better than Vito could
Kaino is over 30 now & not that I don't think he won't cover lock good but you want him in the #6 jersey
Luatua on form no but he is a little more versatile than Messam when you've already got Vito
Now I'm a big Messam fan but he hasn't been the form #6 in NZ Super Rugby this year Shields & Dixon were
And the Blues this year were all around poor so I would've taken Luatua for this reason