All Blacks final World Cup squad?

[Kiwiwomble]

Don't get me wrong, I'm one of naholos biggest fans but taking someone who won't be fit till 3 games in is a huge risk

 

[Kiwi_]

Gotta feel sorry for the guys who didn't quite make it. Dagg, Jane and Piutau, can't fault their effort, played hard and tried to come back after injuries, big effort, they'll be very disappointed after being key members the last few seasons, definitely feel for them.

 

[Jaguares]

My biggest disappointment is Lima not making it

The reason is because Barrett and Slade can play at the wingers

 

[smartcooky]

Don't get me wrong, I'm one of naholos biggest fans but taking someone who won't be fit till 3 games in is a huge risk

Not really.

Dagg, Jane & Piutau will have their bags packed and will be ready to go at a moment's notice. In the meantime, they will be keeping match fit in the ITM Cup.

Hansen said tonight in an interview with Tony Johnson that the 12 who didn't make the cut will be flying to Wellington on Thursday for a meeting and camp in which he and the other selectors will explain why they missed out, and what they need to do to be ready to go if needed.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Stuff.co.nz tipping Naholo to be picked.

Possible All Blacks squad: Ben Franks, Owen Franks, Charlie Faumuina, Tony Woodcock, Wyatt Crockett, Dane Coles, Keven Mealamu, Codie Taylor, Brodie Retallick, Sam Whitelock, Luke Romano, Kieran Read, Richie McCaw, Sam Cane, Victor Vito, Jerome Kaino, Liam Messam/Jeremy Thrush, Aaron Smith, TJ Perenara, Tawera Kerr-Barlow, Dan Carter, Beauden Barrett, Colin Slade, Ma'a Nonu, Conrad Smith, Malakai Fekitoa, Sonny Bill-Williams, Ben Smith, Julian Savea, Nehe Milner-Skudder, Waisake Naholo.

I reckon they are way off.

Do you hate being wrong most of the time?;0) Bar the Messam/Thrush, Stuff.co.nz were pretty much spot on.

 

[Larksea]

really interesting team. Some interesting talking points.

one which hasn't been mentioned much so far is Laulala, hes had a lot of gametime recently for the AB's and performed pretty well. I was a little taken back hearing Ben Franks and Faumaina's names realising that meant no Laulala.

I have always really liked Ben Franks, he has a fantastic work ethic he's a very smart guy and he's good off the field too. But hes the one guy that tends to give away silly yellow cards for silly off the ball stuff. I really don't want to see that this WC.

Dagg, well almost everyone wanted him dropped but it was almost unfathomable to think that he actually would be dropped. Think about it he's been selected for the last 3 years on patchy form and persisted with playing average at best with only the odd random game maybe every 5-6 tests where he's looked good. Then all of a sudden on the eve of the world cup he's dropped!? This is a little out of character for these coaches. And in a why it also reflects a bit on how giddy they are about Naholo.

Piutau - IMO the unluckiest player not to make the squad is not Dagg or Jane or Thrush or anyone else for that matter. It's Piutau, he got the forst 3 tests of the season and he aced them, do doubt about it. He was man of the match against the Boks, one of the only players to look good against Samoa and he was very good against Argentina as well. And in my view he showed he's much better at looking for work and getting involved more outside set plays and in other parts of the field. And defensively he's right up there with the best. That play where he saved a try against the springboks on the right wing when he was playing left wing... That sort of play could win us the World cup. Also considering Savea is a long way off his best. IF I was selector and the WC final was tomorrow then Piutau would run on wearing 11.

Ive said it many times in this thread. The style of play and skillset Piutau has is much more suited to Rugby World Cup knockout football than Naholo or Skudder.

With form and experience as the only factor for selection, Piutau would make the squad 100%. The way his contract signing went bad has surely played a role here, that clearly put a bug up Hansen's arse....

There is a recurring theme here with players that have had off field issues in the past. Piutau, Hika Elliot and Moala. Elliot didn't even get a chance, even though he was clearly a form hooker in super rugby. Moala got a shot against Samoa and had a very good game then played the house down in the MAB vs Baba's game all after tearing the house down all season in super rugby in a blues side that crumbled around him, in context his season has been every bit as impressive as Skudder & Naholo and throw Fekitoa in there as well Fekitoa has worked hard this season and plays with a lot of passion and energy. But hes been completely outplayed by Moala in terms of personal form, in particular on attack. Moala has been much more dangerous on attack and much more accurate on defense.

Concerns...

#1 2007 we went in all guns Blazing with sivivatu & Rokocoko on the wings. Oozing x-factor and flair, France should have been shaking in their boots at the thought of facing those guys. It didn't work, It never has worked in World Cups and not on the slower European grounds. Finals footy is all about accuracy, defense, accuracy and... not making mistakes.
Come 2011 it seemed the selectors had learned the lesson, Jane & Kahui as a pair of wingers is all about being superb under the high ball, accurate and in Kahui's case an absolute world class defender, kick chaser and punter of course both could create and finish as well but that was secondary. 2015? it seems like we are trying something new again but to me its more like 2007 than 2011.... The back 3 selections look more like a 2016 squad than a 2015 one.....

#2 who backs up Ben Smith? 15 is a specialist position much like 2, 9, 10, Skudder can play 15 but he has 0 test caps at 15.... to me not selecting Dagg only really made sense if Piutau was selected. He is safer and more experienced.... Skudder must be the main backup 15 and he will probably get gametime there in the pool. But I do kinda get the feeling if Ben Smith gets injured Dagg will come straight back in and start.

#3 I cant help but feel like being in England and all a 4th lock would have been more ideal. But With our best option injured and Thrush not playing well enough, I still think Broadhurst should have got more time... Of course it does help that we have arguable the two best locks in the world, Can't emphasize how important it is we have them for the finals.

armchair rants aside, its an awesome squad. I can't wait for the WC and I'm looking forward to Naholo & Skudder being unleashed on those poor northern sods who've never seen these kids

and its taken ~5 years or so but it seems we are finally going to select our best fullback and actually play him fullback.

The unlucky 15

Moody
Elliot
Laulala
Broadhurst
Bird
Akira Ioane (Luatua?)
Todd
Shields
Weber
Sapoaga
Piutau
Moala
Crotty
Jane
Dagg

no dicking around this team could make he final given time & coaching.

 

[TobesHodges]

So I guess NMS is Full back cover, with Naholo and Savea wing..
But I saw someone said Naholo not fit till 3rd game?
I kinda am and aren't surprised at TKB going, obviously most squads will want 3 Scrummies, but he could have pathed way for Piutau.
The AB are only have 1 Injury away from having Slade as last minute back up at FB, he's ok, but you wouldn't want him there at knockout rugby..

All in all really strong squad as ever, the pack and centres look pretty boss..

 

[Mcfadden]

There is a recurring theme here with players that have had off field issues in the past. Piutau, Hika Elliot and Moala. Elliot didn't even get a chance, even though he was clearly a form hooker in super rugby. Moala got a shot against Samoa and had a very good game then played the house down in the MAB vs Baba's game all after tearing the house down all season in super rugby in a blues side that crumbled around him, in context his season has been every bit as impressive as Skudder & Naholo and throw Fekitoa in there as well Fekitoa has worked hard this season and plays with a lot of passion and energy. But hes been completely outplayed by Moala in terms of personal form, in particular on attack. Moala has been much more dangerous on attack and much more accurate on defense

I think you might be reading a wee bit too much into it.

Elliot is not our future. And look who he's up against. Cody Taylor performs the basics extremely well. In Super Rugby, at least to my knowledge, Taylor was the most accurate lineout thrower. Elliot is a good runner. But we have good runners. It's the All Blacks - the whole team are good runners. To me, the "form hooker" isn't the one who's able to run like a backline player. It's the one who does his job properly, nails the set piece and doesn't give away possession. We need people to do their jobs effectively at the set piece and not give away penalties and restarts. That's why I was banging Tony Woodcock's drum a few weeks ago. He might be slow, but he's less penalty prone than Crockett at times.

Moala was never going to get a look in during this World Cup with SBW and Fekitoa in the mix. Think about who we've invested in since the last World Cup. It'd make little sense to select him in my opinion, and suddenly make the investment in Fekitoa completely void. He's good, but his form isn't better than these two imo. Solid case to be made that Moala is our number 12 for the future, but not literally at next month's World Cup.

Skudder, as wary as I am of his style of rugby in a World Cup final is going to be staying. Piutau is not. In hindsight, Hansen warned about this from the beginning. I actually agree with you about Piutau's style, but it seems like it's only you and me who thinks it. And the writing was on the wall with that one.

As for Ben Franks, I agree to an extent, but he's versatile. Laulala, I might be wrong, but I don't think he is. And versatility is an entry key to the World Cup. Ask Colin Slade.

 

[nik]

X-factor is good. Given there are no injuries I only see either one of Naholo or NMS starting. I would have a back three of BS, NMS and JS.

Piutau is definitely unlucky, he seemed to be a shoe-in. From the outset he seems like the bruising type of player thats perfect for a RWC knockout match. However guys like Julian Savea, Jerome Kaino, Nonu and in a nutshell the whole forward pack will be doing the bruising running and tackling. There will also be a need for certain players to create opportunities. That is where guys like Carter, NMS, the Smiths's come into play, to make use of the ball. And lastly, out and out finishers. Players who can take the half gap, or go around the outside, or bust through the middle, that's where Naholo will come into play.

Whilst the 2011 RWC final was a slog, the semi final between NZvAU there was a lot of X-factor on display. Israel Dagg provided that x-factor, there was a brave call then to drop the experienced and safe Muliana. However Dagg is not the same as 4 years ago and the selectors have made another brave call.

With an aging team, comes some predictability. There is an air of unpredictability with the selection of those two players, and now the ABs need to use it to their advantage.

 

[nzlizard]

Pretty standard and impressive squad, not a lot of deviation from what most people expected.

The only 1 person I would question is Naholo, while he was an awesome player in the super 15 and his one test looked solid, Piutau has had a beast of a 12 months inc the EOYT just gone. NMS gives you a fantastic unknown attacking force, and Piutau gives you another great attacker, it also gives you more complete package and on that is proven.

Those 2 would balance out the back four, in saying that seeing Naholo rip up the world cup and do a Jonah would be fantastic. So Piutau should consider himself unlucky.

Dagg not going was good, glad to see the selectors making the right call, Jane is too far down the pecking order now, still plays ok, just too many others play better.

Vito and Messam is a good choice, Messam needs to up his game a bit I feel to clarify his selection, has not the Messam of old, but still playing great and Vito adds another dynamic, I reckon if Tuipulotu had been fit we could have taken 4 locks instead of three, depending on where selectors see the most need for cover, loosies or locks.

TKB hasn't played a lot of rugby lately, although he will most prob only get 1 game and 1 bench spot.

Sopoaga for me was always an outside bet, you feel the 3 we have going are enough, and 2 of them are also super utility players who are safe in quite a few positions.

Everyone else picked or not picked was for fairly obvious reasons that most would agree upon.

 

[Kiwi_]

Barrett is also fullback cover and the injury call in is fine if we need Dagg or Piutau/what ever. I think Shag is trying to dispel the myth of "knock out" footy and play OUR game, not sucked into clammy European stuff. The team we picked is going to open teams up, not have tight 9-8 games. That's the mentality we're going with, opening the games up.

 

[smartcooky]

#2 who backs up Ben Smith? 15 is a specialist position much like 2, 9, 10, Skudder can play 15 but he has 0 test caps at 15.... to me not selecting Dagg only really made sense if Piutau was selected. He is safer and more experienced.... Skudder must be the main backup 15 and he will probably get gametime there in the pool. But I do kinda get the feeling if Ben Smith gets injured Dagg will come straight back in and start.

Barrett has played quite a bit at 15 for the AB's, in fact eight times in his 30 tests... twice as the starting fullback (v Italy & Japan) and six times as a sub; three times on for Israel Dagg (v Scotland, England and South Africa), twice on for Cory Jane (v Ireland & Australia) and once on for Ben Smith (v Australia)

IMO, Barrett is more than capable of fulfilling the role as fullback if needed.

 

[Regan]

Yep agreed Barrett > Slade in terms of FB cover.

 

[smartcooky]

Vito and Messam is a good choice, Messam needs to up his game a bit I feel to clarify his selection, has not the Messam of old, but still playing great and Vito adds another dynamic, I reckon if Tuipulotu had been fit we could have taken 4 locks instead of three, depending on where selectors see the most need for cover, loosies or locks..

As a part of that "upping his game" he needs (along with Ben Franks) to put away the dumb stuff.

Yellow Cards could end up being costly. Messam gave away some really dumb penalties this year in Super Rugby, and he cost us a match in Ellis Park last year giving away completely unnecessary penalty.

 

[Mcfadden]

I think Slade and/or Barrett would go perfectly well at fullback. They have in the past. The only thing is, if Ben Smith is going to get injured then I hope it's not too early. We want Slade and Barrett around as cover for Carter for as long as possible. But my expectation is that Smith will only play the Argentina and Tonga pool games. Maybe another off the bench if it's really necessary. It's not like we're in the pool of Australia, Wales, England and Fiji and are going to have a bruising match every few days.

 

[arry nordy key]

Can someone shed some light for me on this Naholo "miricale" recovery? I read he had his leg wrapped in leaves and was suddenly cured?!? What have NZ medics said?

 

[nzlizard]

As a part of that "upping his game" he needs (along with Ben Franks) to put away the dumb stuff.

Yellow Cards could end up being costly. Messam gave away some really dumb penalties this year in Super Rugby, and he cost us a match in Ellis Park last year giving away completely unnecessary penalty.

yup, Coles will need to watch himself, teams will target him at a WC as they might see that as a way to exploit his short fuse he sometimes has.

 

[TobesHodges]

Forgot about Barrett, but in still guessing NMS is 2nd to Ben Smith before Barrett or Slade?

 

[chikwa chibwe]

Why Colin slade is in the squad makes no sense to me. To be crude in my disgust he clearly gives Hansen ( a hard on) apologies but had to be said. I realized last year that he was above cruden in the pecking order . Gents cruden would never had made this World Cup squad . Why? Because he has no utility value . If you disagree with me why has Lima been left out and slade picked ?Can some one please educate me as to why a player who is unlikely to have any significant impact or to play any crucial role can be favored above specialists no 10. Charles piutau can play full back centre and wing. He is overall a more talented and more effective player that slade! I will not be surprised if piutau never comes back to play rugby in New Zealand. You don't need to be a genius to see that Lima sapoaga can cover full back and both Cente positions!! Thoroughly disgusted!

 

[CaliRa1]

Hey look I really wanted Sopoaga & Piutau in there thought they played well enough to have a look at which is what they got
Jane & Dagg for all of their work since the last WC
Can't be disappointed with the final squad
Understand why each is in there
Slade as a FH to cover FB WG 2F SH(if worse comes to worst) & Barrett also a FH covering FB WG
Messam & Vito cover all loose forward positions with Vito also able to cover SR if needed not a true SR though
B Franks an effective & versatile scrummager
Faumuina also versatile scrummager, not as efficient or reliable as B Franks though
TKB the only relevant SH with AB experience (Ellis falling out of favour with many AB supporters & perhaps selectors)

Those the only questionable but understandable selections