All Blacks 2021-2024 Thread

[Bruce_ma gooshvili]

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

Probably saying what a lot of AB fans are saying and thinking.

"John Kirwan is a **** Kieran Crowley".

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

Probably saying what a lot of AB fans are saying and thinking.

he should never have been picked to start with, he was in injured and hadn't played for months when it was announced, he should have been allowed to come back and just play without having to pick up the captains mantle at the same time

 

[miccloarch]

"John Kirwan is a **** Kieran Crowley".

Tbf Cane was world class before his neck injury. Hasn't been the same since.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

View attachment 14727

Tbf Cane was world class before his neck injury. Hasn't been the same since.

He had some form in 2020. For a few games at least (although that was against a **** aus so maybe doesn't count - eg that second game against aus when aus thought they were playing touch - Caleb Clarkes run on debut). He wasn't too bad in 2019 either.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Jordie Barrett set to fend off Roger Tuivasa-Sheck at No 12 for All Blacks

Ian Foster has a couple of big calls to make as he ponders his lineup for the Rugby Championship finale at Eden Park next Saturday.

i.stuff.co.nz

 

[Kiwiwomble]

i would have 12. jordie 14. reece 15. jordan

 

[Bada-Bing!]

i would have 12. jordie 14. reece 15. jordan

The other one is just to slot Beauden back at 15 and leave Jordan at 14.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

The other one is just to slot Beauden back at 15 and leave Jordan at 14.

that is almost more likely

i just think most of jordans most efficient plays come when he drifts infield, see his worldie of a try last week running off the 12's shoulder like a 15, and reece has looked better at 14

 

[Bada-Bing!]

i just think most of jordans most efficient plays come when he drifts infield, see his worldie of a try last week running off the 12's shoulder like a 15, and reece has looked better at 14

No doubt. But doesn't Foster doubt Jordan's ability under the high ball? His attacking ability as full back is not in doubt.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

No doubt. But doesn't Foster doubt Jordan's ability under the high ball? His attacking ability as full back is not in doubt.

maybe...but i dont over respect a lot of fozzies opinions, jordan was 15 for the pretty dominant saders so i think he can do the job...and he hasnt been firing in the typical wing role so im kind of put him where hes his best or bring in someone else

 

[Bada-Bing!]

maybe...but i dont over respect a lot of fozzies opinions, jordan was 15 for the pretty dominant saders so i think he can do the job...and he hasnt been firing in the typical wing role so im kind of put him where hes his best or bring in someone else

True but Fozzie is the one ultimately picking the team with input from the other selectors and he seemed to suggest prior to the RC that that was the reason why he prefers Jordie there and I have seen Jordan drop a few when tested at test level.

And being proficient under the high ball at full back at international level as opposed go SR is pretty much a requisite nowadays.

I was a big fan of Corey Jane when he was playing for the ABs at 14 a decade ago. He was really a full back but could play that right wing role. Fantastic under the high ball during the World Cup and also the best left hand fend I've seen, although not as prolific a try scorer as Howlett. Not sure if Jordan is as well rounded as Jane was, yet.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

True but Fozzie is the one ultimately picking the team with input from the other selectors and he seemed to suggest prior to the RC that that was the reason why he prefers Jordie there and I have seen Jordan drop a few when tested at test level.

And being proficient under the high ball at full back at international level as opposed go SR is pretty much a requisite nowadays.

I was a big fan of Corey Jane when he was playing for the ABs at 14 a decade ago. He was really a full back but could play that right wing role. Fantastic under the high ball during the World Cup and also the best left hand fend I've seen, although not as prolific a try scorer as Howlett. Not sure if Jordan is as well rounded as Jane was, yet.

i think people like corey jane and ben smith are actually what fozzie is stuck on, he is wedded to the idea all fullbacks can play wing...rather than acknowledging that those guys were full backs that were aALSO world class wings

He also cant get over the idea you might not be able to get the 15 best players on the pitch at the same time, if you have two in the same position one might have to miss out, its all the same reason we saw jordie at 14 in 2020 and he was really bad

Jordie has definately earnt the 15, was only meaning if we were short in midfield it might be a chance to put a very solid 12 in the form of jordie in...and then see if jordan settled more at 15...whilst making room for reece to come back at 14

 

[Umaga's Witness]

No doubt. But doesn't Foster doubt Jordan's ability under the high ball? His attacking ability as full back is not in doubt.

I've never heard foster say he doubts Jordan's ability under the high ball, though I think he does think that and he has stated that Jordie is there largely for his ability under the high ball. jordan does have a pretty poor record under the high ball defensively but then has had some good games too recently (seems to be improving).

maybe...but i dont over respect a lot of fozzies opinions, jordan was 15 for the pretty dominant saders so i think he can do the job...and he hasnt been firing in the typical wing role so im kind of put him where hes his best or bring in someone else

High ball defense at super rugby level is a lot easier but also no one makes a big deal over a few unsuccessful takes per game because you can get away with it. Having said that, the wallabies don't kick high balls as much as the springboks or argentina, so I reckon jordan should get a crack.

Honestly don't know what they will do - why have rts in the squad and not use him?? when is he going to get time? I'm Not convinced he is ready not that he is a twelve, but m keen to see him develop to find out what he can bring - you'd think one of the best and highest paid league players could have a chance to make something out of union, but only if you find them the right position and give them time.

Rts ione, despite playing together for the blues and doing ok, isn't a very all blacks like midfield combo - where is the playmaking, where is the ability to connect with team mates.

Rieko epitomizes this team I reckon - does so many great things and so many terrible things, very inconsistent.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

I've never heard foster say he doubts Jordan's ability under the high ball, though I think he does think that and he has stated that Jordie is there largely for his ability under the high ball. jordan does have a pretty poor record under the high ball defensively but then has had some good games too recently (seems to be improving).

Yes, not specifically regarding Jordan under the high ball but more implied by preferring Jordie and mentioning his ability under the high ball. Also as you said seen Jordan struggle at times at test level. Still young and improving.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

One thing that concerns me about Jordie as a twelve is susceptibility to being held up given his height

 

[Umaga's Witness]

The 35-strong squad is as follows: (age, Super Rugby club, province, Test caps).



Forwards:



Hookers

Dane Coles (35, Hurricanes / Wellington, 84)

Samisoni Taukei'aho (25, Chiefs / Waikato, 17)

Codie Taylor (31, Crusaders / Canterbury, 72)

Props


George Bower (30, Crusaders / Otago, 19)

Ethan de Groot (24, Highlanders / Southland, 10)

Nepo Laulala (31, Blues / Counties Manukau, 42)

Tyrel Lomax (26, Hurricanes / Tasman, 20)

Fletcher Newell (22, Crusaders / Canterbury, 4)

Ofa Tu'ungafasi (30, Blues / Northland, 48)

Locks

Scott Barrett (28, Crusaders / Taranaki, 55)

Brodie Retallick (31, Chiefs / Hawke's Bay, 98)

Tupou Vaa'i (22, Chiefs / Taranaki, 15)

Samuel Whitelock (33, Crusaders / Canterbury, 140)

Loose Forwards

Sam Cane – Captain (30, Chiefs / Bay of Plenty, 85)

Shannon Frizell (28, Highlanders / Tasman, 21)

Akira Ioane (27, Blues / Auckland, 19)

Dalton Papali'i (24, Blues / Counties Manukau, 18)

Ardie Savea (28, Hurricanes / Wellington, 67)

Hoskins Sotutu (24, Blues / Counties Manukau, 12)



Backs:



Halfbacks

Finlay Christie (27, Blues / Tasman, 12)

Folau Fakatava (22, Highlanders / Hawke's Bay, 2)

Aaron Smith (33, Highlanders / Manawatu, 111)

First five-eighths

Beauden Barrett (31, Blues / Taranaki, 109)

Richie Mo'unga (28, Crusaders / Canterbury, 41)

Stephen Perofeta (25, Blues / Taranaki, 1)

Midfielders

Braydon Ennor (25, Crusaders / Canterbury, 5)

David Havili (27, Crusaders / Tasman, 21)

Rieko Ioane (25, Blues / Auckland, 56)

Anton Lienert-Brown (27, Chiefs / Waikato, 56)

Roger Tuivasa-Sheck (29, Blues / Auckland, 2)

Outside backs

Jordie Barrett (25, Hurricanes / Taranaki, 45)

Caleb Clarke (23, Blues / Auckland, 11)

Leicester Fainga'anuku (22, Crusaders / Tasman, 2)

Will Jordan (24, Crusaders / Tasman, 21)

Sevu Reece (25, Crusaders / Tasman, 21)



Unavailable for selection due to injury - Ethan Blackadder, Jack Goodhue, Josh Lord, Joe Moody and Quinn Tupaea.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

All blacks XV to play Ireland A and barbarians

The 28-strong squad is as follows: (age, Super Rugby club, province)



Forwards:



Props


Finlay Brewis (22, Crusaders / Canterbury)
Oli Jager (27, Crusaders / Canterbury)
Aidan Ross (26, Chiefs / Bay of Plenty)
Angus Ta'avao (32, Chiefs / Auckland)
Tamaiti Williams (22, Crusaders / Canterbury)



Hookers


Asafo Aumua (25, Hurricanes / Wellington)
George Bell (20, Crusaders / Canterbury)
Brodie McAlister (25, Crusaders / Canterbury)



Locks


Josh Dickson (27, Highlanders / Otago)
Zach Gallagher (21, Crusaders / Canterbury)
Patrick Tuipulotu - Captain (29, Blues / Auckland)



Loose Forwards


Dominic Gardiner (21, Crusaders / Canterbury)
Billy Harmon (27, Highlanders / Canterbury)
Luke Jacobson (25, Chiefs / Waikato)
Christian Lio-Willie (24, Crusaders / Otago)
Marino Mikaele-Tu'u (24, Highlanders, Hawkes Bay)



Backs:



Halfbacks


TJ Perenara (30, Hurricanes / Wellington)
Brad Weber (31, Chiefs / Hawke's Bay)
Cam Roigard (21, Hurricanes / Counties Manukau)



First five-eighths


Bryn Gatland (27, Chiefs / North Harbour)
Damian McKenzie (27, Chiefs / Waikato)



Midfielders


Levi Aumua (28, Moana Pasifika / Tasman)
Bryce Heem (33, Blues / Auckland)
Alex Nankivell (26, Chiefs / Tasman)
Bailyn Sullivan (24, Hurricanes / Waikato)



Outside backs


AJ Lam (24, Blues / Auckland)
Ruben Love (21, Hurricanes / Wellington)
Mark Telea (25, Blues / North Harbour)

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Noting that foster said there may be a few from the all blacks squad who join the all blacks XV squad.

Also I imagine zarn Sullivan and salesi rayasi were unavailable.

My main reaction is surprise and disappointment at the lack of Jonah nareki and Josh ione. Both offer something different - nareki makes things happen out of nothing, Josh ione has a skip out pass like no other, which would enable us to get to the outsides against fast rush defences.

Also hoped songster would get a go - reckon he could even play a Scott barrett like 6 role. But I wasn't surprised to see Gallagher.

And pita-Gus, no pita-Gus, surprise surprise.

I wouldn't have minded Peter lakai either.

Midfield is interesting. Confirmation of why Levi aumua was in neither the fiji or samoa squads earlier in the year. Bailyn Sullivan I'm not a hundred percent convinced on despite my getting excited about him prior to super rugby starting this year. Not sure he has the handling skills of an all black . Nankivell I like but not sure he'd make an impact at international level. Heem, sure I can see the appeal there, especially as he can cover wing and midfield. Wouldn't have minded an umaga jensen or poihipi. But I imagine rts will play in this side anyway, at least for one game.

You have to say there is a bit of crusaders bias in the forwards, as might be expected from jason ryan.

Will be interesting to see if razor picks for the barbarians any New Zealanders who missed out just to prove a point. Or perhaps even others who have left NZ rugby, eg Karl and laumape.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

PGS is a bit criminal, 25 mins over two games including a try....didnt even really get a chance to do anything wrong...and now cant even make the AB XV, dont get me wrong, i think his form had dropped off before getting selected for the AB to the point where i wouldn't have selected him...BUT...they did...and he's not playing worse...so whats changed, it does look a bid dodgy

too many experienced players for me, i would rather the guys we KNOW wont play for the AB's (fakatava, RTS, Sotutu, perofeta etc) had started for the AB XV than go hold tackle bags

 

[Umaga's Witness]

possible all blacks to play japan

Ofa
Coles
Nepo
Barrett
Vaai
Frizell
Papalii
Sotutu
Fakatava
Perofeta
Faingaanuku
Rts
Alb
Reece
Jordan

Bower
Taylor
Newell
Retallick
Akira
Christie
Jordie
Ennor

And possible all blacks XV (so much guessing) for Ireland A

Ross
aumua
Taavao
Tuipolotu
Gallagher (because Dickson has already played Ireland A)
Vaai (to see him at 6)
Lio-willie (because harmon has already played Ireland A)
Mikaele-tuu
Fakatava (for more game time)
Mckenzie
Lam
Rts (for more game time)
Heem (because sullivan has already played Ireland A)
Telea
Perofeta (to give him a go at 15 at this level)

Williams all mighty
Mcalistair
Jager
Dickson
Jacobson
Weber
Aumua
Love