All Blacks 2021-2023 Thread

[miccloarch]

Some players can look a lot better or worse depending on the system they're playing under. If there's no system to speak of it stands to reason they might look like numpties regardless of actual talent. I don't want to beat a dead horse to death by pointing out who the real numpties are.

 

[GoTheNaki]

Yeah I really don't think the NZ talent is other worldly like it has been for most of the time I have watched rugby in my life. Over that series Savea, Smith and Jordan were the only real standouts as players better than we have available. In reverse Sheehan, Furlong, Beirne, Henshaw and Keenan* all looked better than anyone NZ have. Add in that POM, VdF and Sexton looked far more able to influence test matches in their favour than their opposite numbers currently are.

NZ are a top 4 squad right now and are definitely capable of beating anyone on their day (a suffix that they haven't needed in decades) but their current talent level has then in a position where good coaching, good form and a bit of luck is needed to be the top team in the world, the same as South Africa, France and now Ireland have had in the past three years. They also need a fix in their tight five, particularly props from my viewing.

*Willing to accept I may be missing something with J Barrett but I've never massively rated him. Keenan was definitely the 15 of this series anyway.

Jordie Barrett, played 12 at high school, he wanted to play 12 at the Hurricanes, still says he is most comfortable at 12. NZRU told him his best chance for his career is fullback. That kid is so talented, people were saying he was better than Beauden at Francis Douglas, and will be very close or better to Beauden. It just hasn't materialised because he is playing out of position.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Jordie Barrett, played 12 at high school, he wanted to play 12 at the Hurricanes, still says he is most comfortable at 12. NZRU told him his best chance for his career is fullback. That kid is so talented, people were saying he was better than Beauden at Francis Douglas, and will be very close or better to Beauden. It just hasn't materialised because he is playing out of position.

it is a bit crazy...we need a 12....we have someone who wants to play 12 and is brothers with the guys most often playing 10 so a natural connection...and we also have a phenomenal 15 replacement in jordan....seems like something worth trying

 

[miccloarch]

It's interesting to look at Fosters coaching career. He was at the helm of the Chiefs from 2005 to 2011. Apart from a runners up spot in 2009, it was a whole lot of ordinary. In 2010 and 2011 he finished 10th and 11th and was let go and hadn't been a head coach of a senior side since. The following 2 years the Chiefs were champions. So we see immediate and dramatic improvement as soon as Foster was shown the door.

Utterly incredible he ever got the top job and laughable he is being allowed to continue to drive the ABs into the dirt. He will not be turning this ship around.

A lot of us have been saying this from the beginning. Foster's a decent assistant. He can obviously take instruction. But he's got no business being head coach of a tier 1 national team, let alone the All Blacks. He's completely out of his depth. Even Plumtree's a better head coach so maybe if they swap roles we'd be playing better lol.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Some players can look a lot better or worse depending on the system they're playing under. If there's no system to speak of it stands to reason they might look like numpties regardless of actual talent. I don't want to beat a dead horse to death by pointing out who the real numpties are.

It's mince rotting on the ground at this point with mashed flies in it

 

[Umaga's Witness]

It's interesting to look at Fosters coaching career. He was at the helm of the Chiefs from 2005 to 2011. Apart from a runners up spot in 2009, it was a whole lot of ordinary. In 2010 and 2011 he finished 10th and 11th and was let go and hadn't been a head coach of a senior side since. The following 2 years the Chiefs were champions. So we see immediate and dramatic improvement as soon as Foster was shown the door.

Utterly incredible he ever got the top job and laughable he is being allowed to continue to drive the ABs into the dirt. He will not be turning this ship around.

Yeah his appointment as assistant in the first place was shocking. The chiefs under foster had no great structures, and he was what I would call a measured player - ran the game well enough but nothing flash.

 

[GoTheNaki]

it is a bit crazy...we need a 12....we have someone who wants to play 12 and is brothers with the guys most often playing 10 so a natural connection...and we also have a phenomenal 15 replacement in jordan....seems like something worth trying

I think it's bonkers. We've had so many names since 2015 have a go and we've got a natural, old school 12 just playing fullback.

Edit: as I've posted this, reports are assistant coaches in trouble, Schmidt coming in, in a coaching capacity. Whitelock favourite to be captain. Will know in 2hours.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

Edit: as I've posted this, reports are assistant coaches in trouble, Schmidt coming in, in a coaching capacity. Whitelock favourite to be captain. Will know in 2hours.

Whitelock was captain when we lost at the end of year tour last year. So while cane may not deserve to be there, the appointment of whitelock just shows that cane is a scapegoat.

Also, why is no one questioning the defence coach? Sure we are good on the goal line but that isn't due to the coach, that's the players. Teams get to the goal line too easily; yes Ireland has amazing attack, but to not improve our defence against them in four outings is ludicrous.

I would also ask whether there is something more systemic - forwards not showing up to breakdowns and defenders not getting in good positions are issues under the remit f different assistants but perhaps have a common cause that isn't to do with either

And the attack coach? Moar was always an odd selection; the crusaders attack under him was nothing special.

The nzru process of leaving it open for anyone to apply but not asking anyone to, and requiring the applicants to present a full coaching team as part of the application (making it awkward for assistants to be part of more than one application) meant they ended up with sub par coach and assistants

 

[GoTheNaki]

Nevermind they literally changed nothing... Bring on the flogging in South Africa I guess.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

No surprise that sowakula out now that he has been prevented from playing for fiji.

No surprise that the squad is otherwise unchanged (de groot for Karl doesn't count because Karl going overseas) even though Schmidt has replaced fox as a selector.

No surprise that the coaches are unchanged despite the stir.

Does anyone know where f Schmidt has a role in selecting the 23 or just the squad?

 

[Kiwiwomble]

No surprise that sowakula out now that he has been prevented from playing for fiji.

No surprise that the squad is otherwise unchanged (de groot for Karl doesn't count because Karl going overseas) even though Schmidt has replaced fox as a selector.

No surprise that the coaches are unchanged despite the stir.

Does anyone know where f Schmidt has a role in selecting the 23 or just the squad?

im embarrassed we seem to have been so blatant is just trying stop PGS playing for Fiji

I believe Schmidt only selected the squad, he's not travelling to South Africa so would be hard placed to help with the 23

I have seen reports Leon Macdonald and jason Ryan have been tapped up for the AB's assistants...extrapolating that out quite a lot...Fozzie to step down on return from SA and Schmidt, Macdonald and Ryan going forward?

 

[GoTheNaki]

No surprise that sowakula out now that he has been prevented from playing for fiji.

No surprise that the squad is otherwise unchanged (de groot for Karl doesn't count because Karl going overseas) even though Schmidt has replaced fox as a selector.

No surprise that the coaches are unchanged despite the stir.

Does anyone know where f Schmidt has a role in selecting the 23 or just the squad?

Yeah no surprise that we wouldn't wanna take the form 8 from Super Rugby away with us. Dangerous runner, seemingly top bloke, guess we're looking at a Fritzell, Cane, Savea loose forwards. So guy who hasn't played, guy who hasn't lived up to the hype, and our best 7 out of position... Vs South Africa a team that will be at the breakdown before us, at altitude, with rush line defense... If the ABs lose 2-0 then what? Let's just see how it goes vs Aussie?? Lol.

 

[Eleutherarch]

Just watched the conference. 90-95% of it would be alarming to me if I was an All Blacks fan. Same vagaries of getting stuck into their work and disappointment. The only thing I think was worthy of praise was his stance that an exchange of words at a pub shouldn't be sensationalised.

Foster took no ownership and offered nothing incisive. I think any random yahoo on the street would characterise the Springbok modus operandi exactly as he did, which doesn't breed confidence in cultivating a mindset to counter it.

Despite it all, I still found myself liking him. He's an affable bloke. For the record, I think SA-NZ will be 1-1 draw. Even if it was a two nil victory for SA, it won't be enough to dislodge him. It'll take a Bledisloe loss for that.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

I really just hate seeing Frizell get selected. Especially when there are other options who I think are better players and more importantly, haven't beaten up any women.

 

[big ginger 8]

I really just hate seeing Frizell get selected. Especially when there are other options who I think are better players and more importantly, haven't beaten up any women.

What about Sevu Reece? Sorry not trying to do a gotcha. It's just interesting that there have been a few comments about Frizzell and Reece kind of stays under the radar. Obviously one was named as part if a squad and the other a call up so there's more focus on the name but Reece just seems to be forgotten about.

 

[GoTheNaki]

I really just hate seeing Frizell get selected. Especially when there are other options who I think are better players and more importantly, haven't beaten up any women.

Yeah we've uh... Well the team is starting it's own little sub-team of woman bashers and womanisers.

Bash-Bros: Sevu Reece, Shannon Frizell.
Caught in a loo at an airport with a bird not his Mrs: Aaron Smith.

Not exactly role models anymore, and NZRU not exactly taking an appropriate stance on things like these either, primarily the hitting of women... This is obviously outside of the Ws & Ls of the Black Jersey, so we'll wave it off, yeah?

But yeah, Foster talking like a casual fan down the pub doesn't build confidence, I'm still saying openly that we're gonna lose the Bledisloe. I think Aussie are within reach of being able to be coached better than us, with a bit less talent, to beat this ABs team.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

What about Sevu Reece? Sorry not trying to do a gotcha. It's just interesting that there have been a few comments about Frizzell and Reece kind of stays under the radar. Obviously one was named as part if a squad and the other a call up so there's more focus on the name but Reece just seems to be forgotten about.

I'm not 100% on the whole situation but my understanding is that Reece cops a lot less flack because he fully owned up to his actions, faced significant consequences, seeked help and has since made steps to better himself.

Frizell on the other hand received a 2 match ban and AFAIK didn't face any legal consequences. I by no means love that Reece is still involved in the ABs set up but I do think that he's a lot more palatable than Frizell.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

I'm not 100% on the whole situation but my understanding is that Reece cops a lot less flack because he fully owned up to his actions, faced significant consequences, seeked help and has since made steps to better himself.

Frizell on the other hand received a 2 match ban and AFAIK didn't face any legal consequences. I by no means love that Reece is still involved in the ABs set up but I do think that he's a lot more palatable than Frizell.

Reece benefitted from the ordeal. Had the conviction scrapped because it was going to affect his career; lost his overseas contract anyway, then ended up making the all blacks.

Edit: deleted what I said before in the middle of the night because upon awakening proper I disagreed with it. still think the legal system did a poor job in these cases though.

 

[miccloarch]

Yeah no surprise that we wouldn't wanna take the form 8 from Super Rugby away with us. Dangerous runner, seemingly top bloke, guess we're looking at a Fritzell, Cane, Savea loose forwards. So guy who hasn't played, guy who hasn't lived up to the hype, and our best 7 out of position... Vs South Africa a team that will be at the breakdown before us, at altitude, with rush line defense... If the ABs lose 2-0 then what? Let's just see how it goes vs Aussie?? Lol.

Fozzy after the two SA tests: "I think the public needs to acknowledge just how good this Springbok team really is."

 

[GoTheNaki]

Fozzy after the two SA tests: "I think the public needs to acknowledge just how good this Springbok team really is."

Fozzy after losing the Bledisloe to Aussie:

"I think the public needs to acknowledge that Australia is a team on the rise, they barely lost to England who are a top team, so obviously this team will be there come the world cup".