Air NZ Cup to remain as 14 teams

[Candyman]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (C A Iversen @ Dec 15 2009, 05:05 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (wjd23104 @ Dec 15 2009, 03:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There is no way John O'Neill got rid of the Austrailian Domestic Comp for personal reasons thats just not true. Perth may lose money but its the broadcast rights that seem to earn the most money and i understand thats why O'Neill wants to expand into Melbourne. More TV money and sponsors.

I never said Australia was returning rivers of gold. As i understand it its SA that does that (brings in rivers of gold), they bring in a large part of the broadcast rights money. The Money sure is hell isn't coming from the ANZC.

And whats this return to the NPC format? that requires going back to ten teams which last i checked is what they are trying to do.

Yes the payments to Allblacks is something they need to workout. The biggest opponent of the Salary cap is the players union not Auckland/Canterbury though
obviously they're 2nd and 3rd.

The NZRU is not making decisions year in and year out they are trying to solve the same problem but vested interests have prevented them creating the competition they've wanted for three years because the NPC was losing attendance and viewership and struggling for sponsors.

And why is it people give neg reps just because they disagree with you. I mean i not wrong in saying some of the comments have been poorly thought out and i'll freely admit i've learnt a few things from this thread as well.[/b]

Negative rep. It's short for negative reputation. As far as I'm concerned if someone doesn't like you, or me, or anyone else, due to their views then they can say "I'm not a fan of this person" and negative rep them once. As long as it's not an ongoing thing and limited to once per issue or thread, then I don't see the problem.

Negative repping would otherwise just be impossible for anyone to give for any reason. Nothing against you or anyone else, I'm just clarifying.

Most of the grief that people associate with rep points is that they give one out and tend to get one back and then complain about it. Maybe not in your case, but it happens.
[/b][/quote]

I agree what would be the point of having the system other wise!

 

[Jethro]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (William18 @ Dec 15 2009, 11:09 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Who in this thread has said that union is returning rivers of gold? I certainly haven't. The ARU can't be blamed for the free to air coverage at least. From my observations the biggest problems facing rugby in Australia is that the game is too confusing and is not appetizing to juniors coming up so they play league instead. I certainly don't think the Melbourne team will be successful at all but it's Australia's team and it's their job to do what ever they want with it.

You seem to think that the NZRU should pt more emphasis of the ANZC than Super 14. This is even though the NZRU needs the Super 14 to keep Australian rugby strong as it needs SANZAR. So do you think the NZRU should just give up on Australian rugby?[/b]

So in other words you are saying the NZRU are perfectly justified to cut the ANZC in order to prop up a competition to benefit Rugby in another country that can't be bothered showing the games and loses a string of players to a competing code? How exactly does NZ Rugby need a strong Australia? When did the Aussies become the lame duck of SANZAR? The competition could actually survive quite nicely without Australian involvement, the danger is the Saffas starting to see drops in support and deciding to withdraw.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (wjd23104 @ Dec 15 2009, 01:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

There is no way John O'Neill got rid of the Austrailian Domestic Comp for personal reasons thats just not true. Perth may lose money but its the broadcast rights that seem to earn the most money and i understand thats why O'Neill wants to expand into Melbourne. More TV money and sponsors.

I never said Australia was returning rivers of gold. As i understand it its SA that does that (brings in rivers of gold), they bring in a large part of the broadcast rights money. The Money sure is hell isn't coming from the ANZC.

And whats this return to the NPC format? that requires going back to ten teams which last i checked is what they are trying to do.

Yes the payments to Allblacks is something they need to workout. The biggest opponent of the Salary cap is the players union not Auckland/Canterbury though obviously they're 2nd and 3rd.

The NZRU is not making decisions year in and year out they are trying to solve the same problem but vested interests have prevented them creating the competition they've wanted for three years because the NPC was losing attendance and viewership and struggling for sponsors.

And why is it people give neg reps just because they disagree with you. I mean i not wrong in saying some of the comments have been poorly thought out and i'll freely admit i've learnt a few things from this thread as well.[/b]

Lets see, last year they were going to drop Tasman and Northland, this year they decide on four teams going down, what will they come up with next year one wonders. No professional competition in the world can hope to survive under this sort of strange decision making process.

The NPC needed a revamp for sure, auto promotion/relegation and an enforced salary cap would have helped there.

And when the hell did I give you a neg rep?


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dale @ Dec 15 2009, 09:56 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I think the NZRU should cut a team each year to eventually get to 10 in 3 years time.[/b]

Dale something has to be done for long term survival, what myself and a number of people disagree with is the underhand way the NZRU are going about implementing it. We have an us and them situation at the moment, the us being the five super bases and North harbour, the them being the G9, rules for some and differing rules for others.

 

[Candyman]

Well here we go the new format for 2011!!!

Rugby unveils proposed new provincial format
NZPA - December 17, 2009, 6:49 pm
A new competition structure of 14 premier provincial unions was unveiled today as part of the proposed new agreement between the New Zealand Rugby Union (NZRU) and the Players' Association.

Next year will feature a full 14-team round robin with semifinals and a final, the same format as 2009. But in 2011, a new structure will see the 14 teams split into two divisions of seven, based on their on-field finishing positions in 2010.

The top seven teams will form the Premiership and the bottom seven teams the Championship. Teams will play all other teams in their division plus four other teams from the other division.

The NZRU said there would be an "innovative" new process for teams to select their cross-division opponents, with the detail to be finalised in the first quarter next year.

The winner of the Championship will receive automatic promotion to the Premiership, replacing the seventh placed team in the Premiership, which will be relegated to the Championship.

In 2011, due to New Zealand hosting the rugby World Cup, the competition window will be restricted to eight weeks. As a result, in 2011 only, there will be three mid-week matches and no semifinals.

From 2012, the competition will begin two weeks after the conclusion of the new expanded Super Rugby in mid-August and be played over 12 weeks. This will see the introduction of semifinals and no mid week matches.

 

[Nickdnz]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Candyman @ Dec 17 2009, 08:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Well here we go the new format for 2011!!!

Rugby unveils proposed new provincial format
NZPA - December 17, 2009, 6:49 pm
A new competition structure of 14 premier provincial unions was unveiled today as part of the proposed new agreement between the New Zealand Rugby Union (NZRU) and the Players' Association.

Next year will feature a full 14-team round robin with semifinals and a final, the same format as 2009. But in 2011, a new structure will see the 14 teams split into two divisions of seven, based on their on-field finishing positions in 2010.

The top seven teams will form the Premiership and the bottom seven teams the Championship. Teams will play all other teams in their division plus four other teams from the other division.

The NZRU said there would be an "innovative" new process for teams to select their cross-division opponents, with the detail to be finalised in the first quarter next year.

The winner of the Championship will receive automatic promotion to the Premiership, replacing the seventh placed team in the Premiership, which will be relegated to the Championship.

In 2011, due to New Zealand hosting the rugby World Cup, the competition window will be restricted to eight weeks. As a result, in 2011 only, there will be three mid-week matches and no semifinals.

From 2012, the competition will begin two weeks after the conclusion of the new expanded Super Rugby in mid-August and be played over 12 weeks. This will see the introduction of semifinals and no mid week matches.[/b]

http://nz.sports.yahoo.com/rugby/news/arti...ovincial-format

 

[Jethro]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Candyman @ Dec 17 2009, 06:27 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Well here we go the new format for 2011!!!

Rugby unveils proposed new provincial format
NZPA - December 17, 2009, 6:49 pm
A new competition structure of 14 premier provincial unions was unveiled today as part of the proposed new agreement between the New Zealand Rugby Union (NZRU) and the Players' Association.

Next year will feature a full 14-team round robin with semifinals and a final, the same format as 2009. But in 2011, a new structure will see the 14 teams split into two divisions of seven, based on their on-field finishing positions in 2010.

The top seven teams will form the Premiership and the bottom seven teams the Championship. Teams will play all other teams in their division plus four other teams from the other division.

The NZRU said there would be an "innovative" new process for teams to select their cross-division opponents, with the detail to be finalised in the first quarter next year.

The winner of the Championship will receive automatic promotion to the Premiership, replacing the seventh placed team in the Premiership, which will be relegated to the Championship.

In 2011, due to New Zealand hosting the rugby World Cup, the competition window will be restricted to eight weeks. As a result, in 2011 only, there will be three mid-week matches and no semifinals.

From 2012, the competition will begin two weeks after the conclusion of the new expanded Super Rugby in mid-August and be played over 12 weeks. This will see the introduction of semifinals and no mid week matches.[/b]

Okay I'm happy enought that the criteria for remaining in the Premier division is simply on field results with no backroom deals going down ... oh wait is that a pig flying over the frozen tundra in Hell????

Purely on 2009 results the division split would be:

Premiership

Canterbury
Wellington
Hawkes Bay
Southland
Auckland
Waikato
Bay of Plenty

Championship

Taranaki
Tasman
Otago
Manawatu
North Harbour
Northland
Counties-Manakau

Anyone honestly believe we will end up with Otago and Harbour in the "second division"?

I think the inter-divisional games are just going to confuse the hell out of people and turn them off the format, welcome back to ANZC year one. Jesus you would think even the brains trust in the NZRU bunker could work out the KISS principle.

And what the hell is this about

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

The Ranfurly shield will be played in an exciting new format of a knock out competiton. This will see the holders playing one match a year against the winner of the 'Ranfurly Challengers Series' involving all the other provincial teams and in an innovation the Australian Super 14 sides, Japan and the winners of the Pacific Island Championship of the previous year. It is anticipated that this will be played at Mile High Stadium in Denver and will be called the 'Shield Bowl' (naming rights to be determined).[/b]

Sorry the entire NZRU board need to be sacked immediatly, that is going one step too far in eroding tradition imho. The RS has a proud history and should not be tampered with, and why the frack are the Aussie teams involved? This is a disaster waiting to happen.

And of course it's not automatic relegation/promotion

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

Automatic promotion - relegation is confirmed for the winners of the Championship. Though the winners will need to conform to stadium and finacial requirements.[/b]

Can almost guarantee that get out of jail card will be used to help out one of the big five in coming years.

So in the wash up the NZRU have taken a simple solution and made it as complex as they possibly can in order to alienate NZ rugger fans? The Mungo and Wendyball Admins will be laughing their arses off at this combination of ill conceived concepts.

 

[smartcooky]

Another typical NZRU cock-up. Only the they could come up with such a confusing and complicated shamozzle of conflicting ideas.
Why could they not have just made it simple so that everyone can understand.

► Two divisions of seven teams.
► Everyone in each division plays home and away matches. (so 12 rounds)
► Automatic promotion relegation

Note: the only good thing that has come out of this is the salary cap, down to 1.3m from 2.1m. That is a significant giving of ground by the Players Association.

Oh, and by the way, NZRU, the the fûcking Ranfurly Shield alone!!!!

 

[Jethro]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (smartcooky @ Dec 18 2009, 05:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Another typical NZRU cock-up. Only the they could come up with such a confusing and complicated shamozzle of conflicting ideas.
Why could they not have just made it simple so that everyone can understand.

► Two divisions of seven teams.
► Everyone in each division plays home and away matches.
► Automatic promotion relegation

Note: the only good thing that has come out of this is the salary cap, down to 1.3m from 2.1m. That is a significant giving of ground by the Players Association.

Oh, and by the way, NZRU, the the fûcking Ranfurly Shield alone!!!![/b]

See your solution is too simple.

Still reeling over the RS proposal wtf!!!! Isn't one of the bonuses of holding the shield that you get a bunch of sell out home games with a boast to the local economy? How to take a potential money earner for a G9 Province and ensure it's not worth having. The NZRU should be publically flogged and then exile to Tasmania where their sort are appreciated.

 

[Candyman]

WOW!! Back the truck up here!!!! Did I read that right about the Ranfurly Shield?? WTF!!! They can't do that there is too much NEW ZEALAND History that goes with that shield! Look how stoked and passoniate Southland were when they won it for the first time in 50 years if they do this set up we may never hold it again!!!!

I really DISLIKE this!!

 

[William18]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (smartcooky @ Dec 18 2009, 07:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

Another typical NZRU cock-up. Only the they could come up with such a confusing and complicated shamozzle of conflicting ideas.
Why could they not have just made it simple so that everyone can understand.

► Two divisions of seven teams.
► Everyone in each division plays home and away matches. (so 12 rounds)
► Automatic promotion relegation

Note: the only good thing that has come out of this is the salary cap, down to 1.3m from 2.1m. That is a significant giving of ground by the Players Association.

Oh, and by the way, NZRU, the the fûcking Ranfurly Shield alone!!!![/b]

This whole ''confusing'' idea was from the Players Association and the NZRU just changed it slightly.

The Ranfurly Shield thing seems very stupid to me, I hate that. The new competition does overall seem good enough to me. I would have preferred the straight 10 team comp but this is a fair compromise. It seems that all 14 unions support it.

 

[Candyman]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (William18 @ Dec 18 2009, 12:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (smartcooky @ Dec 18 2009, 07:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Another typical NZRU cock-up. Only the they could come up with such a confusing and complicated shamozzle of conflicting ideas.
Why could they not have just made it simple so that everyone can understand.

► Two divisions of seven teams.
► Everyone in each division plays home and away matches. (so 12 rounds)
► Automatic promotion relegation

Note: the only good thing that has come out of this is the salary cap, down to 1.3m from 2.1m. That is a significant giving of ground by the Players Association.

Oh, and by the way, NZRU, the the fûcking Ranfurly Shield alone!!!![/b]

This whole ''confusing'' idea was from the Players Association and the NZRU just changed it slightly.

The Ranfurly Shield thing seems very stupid to me, I hate that. The new competition does overall seem good enough to me. I would have preferred the straight 10 team comp but this is a fair compromise. It seems that all 14 unions support it.
[/b][/quote]

If the unions support it then it must be ok, Guess us as supporters will have to give it a chance see how they go.

 

[darwin_23]

Could be an interesting format - it will certainly make next years championship more exciting. Hopefully Otago can sneak into 7th place and claim a spot in the top division....

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div>

The Ranfurly shield will be played in an exciting new format of a knock out competiton. This will see the holders playing one match a year against the winner of the 'Ranfurly Challengers Series' involving all the other provincial teams and in an innovation the Australian Super 14 sides, Japan and the winners of the Pacific Island Championship of the previous year. It is anticipated that this will be played at Mile High Stadium in Denver and will be called the 'Shield Bowl' (naming rights to be determined).[/b]

lol @ 'Shield Bowl' - its amazing gullible some people are.....

 

[wjd23104]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Candyman @ Dec 18 2009, 12:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (William18 @ Dec 18 2009, 12:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (smartcooky @ Dec 18 2009, 07:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Another typical NZRU cock-up. Only the they could come up with such a confusing and complicated shamozzle of conflicting ideas.
Why could they not have just made it simple so that everyone can understand.

► Two divisions of seven teams.
► Everyone in each division plays home and away matches. (so 12 rounds)
► Automatic promotion relegation

Note: the only good thing that has come out of this is the salary cap, down to 1.3m from 2.1m. That is a significant giving of ground by the Players Association.

Oh, and by the way, NZRU, the the fûcking Ranfurly Shield alone!!!![/b]

This whole ''confusing'' idea was from the Players Association and the NZRU just changed it slightly.

The Ranfurly Shield thing seems very stupid to me, I hate that. The new competition does overall seem good enough to me. I would have preferred the straight 10 team comp but this is a fair compromise. It seems that all 14 unions support it.
[/b][/quote]

If the unions support it then it must be ok, Guess us as supporters will have to give it a chance see how they go.
[/b][/quote]
Am i the only one who thinks the NZRU just dropped seven teams without dropping seven teams?

Where did the quote about the Ranfurly shield changes come from? sounds like someones playing a joke. Also 2 teams threatened legal action so the nzru waited a year and suggested dropping four teams now only a month later because of the Players union they are dropping 7 teams to a second division. At least Tasman and Counties won't be able to ***** when they almost certainly go down.

 

[William18]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (wjd23104 @ Dec 18 2009, 04:07 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Candyman @ Dec 18 2009, 12:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (William18 @ Dec 18 2009, 12:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (smartcooky @ Dec 18 2009, 07:46 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Another typical NZRU cock-up. Only the they could come up with such a confusing and complicated shamozzle of conflicting ideas.
Why could they not have just made it simple so that everyone can understand.

► Two divisions of seven teams.
► Everyone in each division plays home and away matches. (so 12 rounds)
► Automatic promotion relegation

Note: the only good thing that has come out of this is the salary cap, down to 1.3m from 2.1m. That is a significant giving of ground by the Players Association.

Oh, and by the way, NZRU, the the fûcking Ranfurly Shield alone!!!![/b]

This whole ''confusing'' idea was from the Players Association and the NZRU just changed it slightly.

The Ranfurly Shield thing seems very stupid to me, I hate that. The new competition does overall seem good enough to me. I would have preferred the straight 10 team comp but this is a fair compromise. It seems that all 14 unions support it.
[/b][/quote]

If the unions support it then it must be ok, Guess us as supporters will have to give it a chance see how they go.
[/b][/quote]
Am i the only one who thinks the NZRU just dropped seven teams without dropping seven teams?

Where did the quote about the Ranfurly shield changes come from? sounds like someones playing a joke. Also 2 teams threatened legal action so the nzru waited a year and suggested dropping four teams now only a month later because of the Players union they are dropping 7 teams to a second division. At least Tasman and Counties won't be able to ***** when they almost certainly go down.
[/b][/quote]
The reason that this pleases the smaller unions is because they are still able to play the top unions and they won't have to play against Heartland teams.

 

[QLD]

I'm no expert, but I prefer the ANZC to S14 in a lot of ways.

They should revert back to the NPC

Bring it back to 12 teams. Relegate 1 team next year and 1 after that.

Stop f***ing around with formats. This years format was simple and the best.

LEAVE THE RS ALONE!! Even I know how stupid that proposal sounds...

 

[wjd23104]

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dale @ Dec 22 2009, 12:03 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>

I'm no expert, but I prefer the ANZC to S14 in a lot of ways.

They should revert back to the NPC

Bring it back to 12 teams. Relegate 1 team next year and 1 after that.

Stop f***ing around with formats. This years format was simple and the best.

LEAVE THE RS ALONE!! Even I know how stupid that proposal sounds...[/b]

That format wasn't working financially ( thats why they started messing with the format). And as an Aussie should know if you don't get a financially viable comp,you may end up with no comp at all.

 

[GazzaJAnimal]

Both of those ideas requires common sense. Something, alas, a lot of rugby administrators lack.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (smartcooky @ Dec 12 2009, 08:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div>


Why couldn't they just use a different format keep the same teams just split them up into a pool A and a Pool B play there round robin games then have like a quarter final, semi then final??