A Welsh dominated Lions?

[ratsapprentice]

I'm hopeful someone (be it the coaches or BOD) is going to find a better way to use Manu than England have done throughout his career.
Australia are far too smart for the tactics England have employed with him.

 

[psychic duck]

I'm hopeful someone (be it the coaches or BOD) is going to find a better way to use Manu than England have done throughout his career.
Australia are far too smart for the tactics England have employed with him.

They are also far too smart for the tactics Wales have employed as well in attack.

Unfortunately the strategists for this tour happen to Gatland (Head Coach), Howley (Backs Coach) with Farrell alongside.

 

[dullonien]

Tuilagi is as good as people will let him be. He thrives when he can take the ball at speed and in the right area of the field, which puts a big onus on the 10/12 to release Tuilagi. So if we fancy playing Sexton at 10 and BOD at 12, count Tuilagi in at 13. He breaks a tackle like no other. However if Farrell plays at 10 and Roberts at 12, then Tuilagi is pointless.

You could say the same about Roberts. I think Tuilagi is slightly more powerful in his running, he's more explosive that Roberts, but Roberts can still break tackles when he's utilised correctly. In the WC quarter final he sent O'Callaghan flying in the set-up of Sane's try. The one area Roberts has an advantage is in defence, he's huge in that regard imo, as demonstrated in the Wales v England game where Tuilagi ran into his one or twice (full pelt) and Roberts stopped him dead.

I think BOD is a must, so it depends who plays with him. It's not that BOD is in fantastic form, but he offers something the others don't, and he will be needed in order to create a centre partnership which has more balance than the Welsh midfield. After watching the 2001 lions test matches again last week, I wish BOD was still that good, I'd almost forgot how quick and how agile he was back then. Put Roberts or Tuilagi inside him instead of Henderson and that would be devastating.

 

[psychic duck]

You could say the same about Roberts. I think Tuilagi is slightly more powerful in his running, he's more explosive that Roberts, but Roberts can still break tackles when he's utilised correctly. In the WC quarter final he sent O'Callaghan flying in the set-up of Shane's try. The one area Roberts has an advantage is in defence, he's huge in that regard imo, as demonstrated in the Wales v England game where Tuilagi ran into his one or twice (full pelt) and Roberts stopped him dead.

I think BOD is a must, so it depends who plays with him. It's not that BOD is in fantastic form, but he offers something the others don't, and he will be needed in order to create a centre partnership which has more balance than the Welsh midfield. After watching the 2001 lions test matches again last week, I wish BOD was still that good, I'd almost forgot how quick and how agile he was back then. Put Roberts or Tuilagi inside him instead of Henderson and that would be devastating.

 

[dullonien]

I knew you would come through PD

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Two of our tries vs New Zealand came from Cant-Pass Tuilagi's well timed passes.
He is much less one dimensional at Tigers than England as they know how to properly use him. It's just a shame our centre choices are Roberts and Davies at 12, as I don't think either would partner him well, and I dont think Gatland would move Tuilagi or BOD to 12.
I'll spew if Davies starts a test at 13 over Manu, he's worse at every aspect bar kicking.

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk 2

 

[lynam1104]

I'd like to see Tuilangi-BOD and Roberts-BOD given ago both I think would work well, With BOD playing at 12 in the former. Roberts and BOD's partnership was to good to forget so I want to see if it works again, but neither are setting the world alight ATM. Tuilangi to me seems to be the form center but all the other centers he could be partnered with are to similar to him, and it's that he can't pass more like he dosen't always give the ball when needed and takes it himself to much. I still think BOD has to start due to offering a play making spot outside 10 and the fact is hes always to my knowledge produced for the Lions.

 

[psychic duck]

Two of our tries vs New Zealand came from Cant-Pass Tuilagi's well timed passes.
He is much less one dimensional at Tigers than England as they know how to properly use him. It's just a shame our centre choices are Roberts and Davies at 12, as I don't think either would partner him well, and I dont think Gatland would move Tuilagi or BOD to 12.
I'll spew if Davies starts a test at 13 over Manu, he's worse at every aspect bar kicking.

He is botched two overlaps in his most recent match against Wales.

There are many better passers out there, but in the end of the day he won't be selected for his passing ability.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

There are many better passers out there, but in the end of the day he won't be selected for his passing ability.

Well obviously...

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

He is botched two overlaps in his most recent match against Wales.

There are many better passers out there, but in the end of the day he won't be selected for his passing ability.

Well that's debatable - especially if you throw the ball into touch every other pass. I.e, Wales v Ireland, Ulster v Scarlets

 

[psychic duck]

Well that's debatable - especially if you throw the ball into touch every other pass. I.e, Wales v Ireland, Ulster v Scarlets

There's a few centres who aren't great passers about international rugby at the moment. Fewer and fewer teams are going for the type of Henson/McAlister centre Draggs likes.

I guess you could argue Manu Tuilagi is a better passer than Jonathan Davies based on that he doesn't throw it to Row Z so often (after that Ireland match he hardly bothered to even try passing in the 6N btw). But then saying you're a better passer than Jonathan Davies is like saying you are quicker than Matt Dunning.

So thinking about it Tuilagi, although he doesn't really pass too often and it is hardly his strength it probably is better. It's quite astonishing actually how far Davies has progressed so far as an international centre for a top 5 side despite lacking so much in a pretty key skill. The difference between his passing and Henson is unbelievable.

I rate Tuilagi as better than Jonathan Davies personally, they are a very similar style of player in many ways just Tuilagi the better of that style.

 

[Zed]

I don't think Tuilagi's perceived poor passing game is of that much significance. He's 6'1, 110KG and has wingers speed, plus has a step. That is going to be a handful for any team. Players like Davis & Roberts may have similar physical stats, but they do not produce nearly as much power. Obviously it would be great if MT had the passing game that BOD has, but his physical attributes more than make up up for it. Nonu for example, isn't the best at passing and has managed to accrue 76 All Black caps. And that is largely down to the fact that someone that is big and running fast and who can step is bloody hard to stop.

 

[McTallshort]

oh dear the "mines bigger than yours" has started already.

 

[Big Ewis]

I don't think Tuilagi's perceived poor passing game is of that much significance. He's 6'1, 110KG and has wingers speed, plus has a step. That is going to be a handful for any team. Players like Davis & Roberts may have similar physical stats, but they do not produce nearly as much power. Obviously it would be great if MT had the passing game that BOD has, but his physical attributes more than make up up for it. Nonu for example, isn't the best at passing and has managed to accrue 76 All Black caps. And that is largely down to the fact that someone that is big and running fast and who can step is bloody hard to stop.

I agree with you. Many ppl bring up the whole passing dimension about those bull-like centers way too much. OF COURSE it's nice if you have a Tuilagi-like motor AND the passing game, but I love how ppl over-look it and start writing their literature about the one-dimensional instance of a center's game.
NZ are more than glad they've had a battering ram at midfield all these years, boy, when France or wtvr side I support is playing NZ, and they're on the attack and the ball finds Nonu and I see him gathering momentum on that little pre-running hop, I hold my breath each time.

Of course the passing game's very nice, not dismissing it at all; but first of all there are two center positions so let the other one be finesse if you want, but if you can have a one-dimensional battering ram like Nonu-Tuilagi, you can write all the poetry you like, if you're a coach with any brain cells left and you know what works in the brutal game of Rugby, ain't two ways about it.
Those Pacific Islander thighs are just smt else...

and lemme tell you, I agree with Zed. Aussies will play everyone accordingly, every Lion in check; but when the thick Samoan boy is carrying there's a minimum of two guys, and he's still bending the defensive curtain each time, that means someone out there is open, frees up execution, attack has advantage on defense now, etc...
and it takes BRILLIANT improv from the clever clairvoyant center to breach the wall. Pure strength is 100%, intelligence every once in a while (but worth it too).

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

The thing is a one dimensional battering ram isn't always bad if you work around it. For example if your team gets to the breakdown quickly then a battering ram could keep your opposition on the back foot. Battering rams tend to suck in defenders just by being there too, opening up space for others players without actually having to do anything. On the occassion they do pass, they can also take a defence by suprise and have someone get a nice break. Lastly the passing game tends to be difficult if it rains and having players who have experienced a one dimensional game allows you to win, even if it isn't particularly pleasant to watch. Teams need to be able to grind out wins if necessary. I remember a few years back France were playing England. France had lots of flair and passed the ball a lot but they just went sideways, never forwards. When England got the ball it wasn't pretty but it made ground and England ended up winning convincingly. Passing for the sake of passing is no better than crabbing, constant pick and drives against ready defences or constantly kicking away posession.

 

[Big Ewis]

I remember a few years back France were playing England. France had lots of flair and passed the ball a lot but they just went sideways, never forwards. When England got the ball it wasn't pretty but it made ground and England ended up winning convincingly.

...you don't say, sounds extremely unconventional. Wait wait wait, let me get this straight: France had flair, England wasn't pretty but England won convincingly ?!! When do these things EVER happen ?!

 

[Peat]

Anybody who has recently watched Tuilagi for Leicester would have zero problems with his passing.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Anybody who has recently watched Tuilagi for Leicester would have zero problems with his passing.

This.

He looks like a completely different player to the one who plays for England. He normally only touches the ball 3-4 times for the Tigers, but every one tells.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

...you don't say, sounds extremely unconventional. Wait wait wait, let me get this straight: France had flair, England wasn't pretty but England won convincingly ?!! When do these things EVER happen ?!

Haha mr sarcastic. There was a particular game where the difference in styles was huge and France were getting praise for their passing game but they main point was they were getting absolutely nowhere unlike other games where they have at least seemed threatening. This was back in the 2008 6 nations.

 

[Big Ewis]

Haha mr sarcastic. There was a particular game where the difference in styles was huge and France were getting praise for their passing game but they main point was they were getting absolutely nowhere unlike other games where they have at least seemed threatening. This was back in the 2008 6 nations.

surely a once in a generation thing, never heard of a pragmatic England side VS. an aesthetic-but-inefficient France squad...