A Super Rugby style tournament would significantly improve European nations...

[ratsapprentice]

No doubt that internet "tv" streaming rights are going to absolutely dwarf existing rights payments, it's just a matter of when.

 

[Mattybuck]

I just couldn't see the clubs accepting a change in the set up, Bruce Craig and several of his fellow owners have invested huge amounts of money into the clubs.

Supporter wise, I'm Bath first England second! I don't want to see the club I supported as a boy be pushed out of the elite tier of rugby.

AP is a good league and will improve further now salary cap has been increased.

TV rights... BT is a huge company with huge amounts of cash at their disposal. I don't see TV rights in UK going anywhere until they lose interest.

And to be honest, they put four games on a weekend which I like a lot!

 

[ratsapprentice]

Why is an increase in the salary cap going to improve the the AP?

Because of an even bigger disparity in resources between the "top" clubs and the others?

TV rights... BT is a huge company with huge amounts of cash at their disposal. I don't see TV rights in UK going anywhere until they lose interest.

Google, Facebook, Youtube, Netflix et al are significantly bigger...

 

[Peat]

Why is an increase in the salary cap going to improve the the AP?

Because of an even bigger disparity in resources between the "top" clubs and the others?

Maybe less clubs cheating the cap now it's higher ^_^

 

[barthelemy]

Also, about TV or internet rights, the next big thing to come is the infinite seat concept associated with Virtual reality (first headsets like HTC Vive or Oculus rift to be launch this end of year). It will be big, a mini revolution, it will be like you are in the stadium but being at home. It will be a huge boost for TV or internet providers.

All big internet companies have already invested in the concept.

But this is not only about rugby obviously, this is about sport in general (and not only)

Imagine 2 seconds you are a camera on the ball and you are watching all this through a virtual reality headset

I really hope that European rugby will adapt soon to compete with SH, I think we all have described the solutions, we need now actions and people with the want to implement them.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Virtual Reality headsets are going to tank harder than 3D.

 

[valley commando]

I just couldn't see the clubs accepting a change in the set up, Bruce Craig and several of his fellow owners have invested huge amounts of money into the clubs.

Supporter wise, I'm Bath first England second! I don't want to see the club I supported as a boy be pushed out of the elite tier of rugby.

AP is a good league and will improve further now salary cap has been increased.

TV rights... BT is a huge company with huge amounts of cash at their disposal. I don't see TV rights in UK going anywhere until they lose interest.

And to be honest, they put four games on a weekend which I like a lot!

We didn't have a say in what happened to the clubs in Wales when regions came in, if the union is strong enough then it will happen, as to the clubs they will still exist but on a lower tier.

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Why is an increase in the salary cap going to improve the the AP?

Because of an even bigger disparity in resources between the "top" clubs and the others?



Google, Facebook, Youtube, Netflix et al are significantly bigger...

Exactly the salary cap is a farce in my opinion, the bigger clubs will become bigger and the smaller ones will suffer, what will happen is what is happening in France, more foreign players employed on huge salaries and less home players getting a chance therefore diluting the pool of home players to select internationally.
Look at Soccer, its very unlikely that anyone outside of 3 or 4 teams will ever win the premiership, what it creates is pretty boring if you ask me with some clubs always fighting relegation and others having to settle for mid table mediocrity, groundhog day.

 

[barthelemy]

The RFU is definitely capable of borrowing sufficient money for start-up costs against its future earnings.

The real issue is, as you say, players. Even if the money's there, they might not be able to persuade them. Working with the clubs would make things a lot smoother there.

Will be a bit more difficult for the FFR as they do not have as much money as RFU (They do not have a Twickenham bringing Almost 40% of the yearly incomes) but I guess this is not impossible.

Still I agree with your last bit, For countries like France or England it would be very difficult to go over the head of the clubs for a lot of reasons (Fans, Grounds, Money etc..). It would be even a bit stupid I think.

This is why I think that the proposal of Snoopy is good. It is trying to create a European competition (targeting on the long run a Super Rugby like competition) integrating the existing clubs in France and England.

Now, to do this, we need to put around the same table Clubs, Unions, Franchises, sponsors and partners that would be participate in this new competition. I have no clue if there had already been some serious talk about something like this in the past in Europe.

In my perspective, one of the first thing is that unions, clubs or other Franchises need to be reassured that the new competition will bring at least as much as they earn today in terms of sponsors and partners income

Then RFU and FFR need to find an agreement with the clubs to take onboard a significant part of the players salary (contracting players properly in agreement with clubs) as the goal is also for them to have the players much more often along the years, assuming that Clubs/Franchises would play less matches with this new competition format.

I honestly think that if we could create the environment to fulfill these conditions, we could create a positive move towards some deeper changes in the European rugby.

Dream on !

 

[sigesige00]

Yes Glasgow should be competitive on the highest level of Europe, and Scotland could be stronger by having a stronger Glasgow, from whom most of Scotland national team players should come.

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Yes Glasgow should be competitive on the highest level of Europe, and Scotland could be stronger by having a stronger Glasgow, from whom most of Scotland national team player should come.

 

[smartcooky]

I listened to a very interesting discussion yesteday about the differences between NH and SH rugby, between former England international Mike Tindall, and ex-All Black Justin Marshall. Tindall made a very good point that one of the reasons why SR teams play they way they do is the fact that SR is ringfenced; there is no fear of relegation.

In England and France, the bottom few teams are desparate not to lose, because of the fear of relegation, which is a financial disaster for any team. Teams in the drop zone have a tendency to "play to not lose" rather than to play to win. Not so in SR, where the wooden spoon means nothing, they know they will be back next season.

There are two things of course that run counter to that. The Pro12 doesn't have relegation yet they don't tend to play the SH style, and the ITM Cup, which does have relegation, but still play the SH style anyway. Admittedly, relegation in the ITM Cup is not as serious as it is in the AP or the Top 14, because unlike the AP/RFU Championship and the Top 14/Pro-D2, the NZ NPC Premiership and Championship are both run by the NZRU and sponsored by the same sponsors. They both get equal billing and airtime, and they almost run as parallell competitions, with teams from each division playing against the majority of the teams in the other dividion (4 of 7).

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

I listened to a very interesting discussion yesteday about the differences between NH and SH rugby, between former England international Mike Tindall, and ex-All Black Justin Marshall. Tindall made a very good point that one of the reasons why SR teams play they way they do is the fact that SR is ringfenced; there is no fear of relegation..

I heard Contepomi (former Argentina and Leinster player) say that exact same thing about Irish teams.

 

[Kiwi_]

I heard Contepomi (former Argentina and Leinster player) say that exact same thing about Irish teams.

What's the news with Bosch? Looking forward to seeing the Argentinian SR team. You guys will be very strong.

 

[ratsapprentice]

I listened to a very interesting discussion yesteday about the differences between NH and SH rugby, between former England international Mike Tindall, and ex-All Black Justin Marshall. Tindall made a very good point that one of the reasons why SR teams play they way they do is the fact that SR is ringfenced; there is no fear of relegation.

It certainly doesn't help.

It's one of many things you'd change if your focus was on creating a system/environment in which performance/quality of rugby is the main priority.

 

[j'nuh]

It certainly doesn't help.

It's one of many things you'd change if you're focus was on creating an system/environment in which performance/quality of rugby is the main priority.

Surely it can't have that big an effect though? In any given year, only one or two teams, with nearly no internationals, are at risk of going down. And even if they do go down and take internationals with them, the internationals nearly always move to another Premiership club.

In recent years, the only England player I can think of that has been directly affected by relegation is Chris Pennell.

 

[ratsapprentice]

It massively affects the style of play and willingness of those clubs to play (and hence develop) their younger talent.

 

[barthelemy]

I listened to a very interesting discussion yesteday about the differences between NH and SH rugby, between former England international Mike Tindall, and ex-All Black Justin Marshall. Tindall made a very good point that one of the reasons why SR teams play they way they do is the fact that SR is ringfenced; there is no fear of relegation.

In England and France, the bottom few teams are desparate not to lose, because of the fear of relegation, which is a financial disaster for any team. Teams in the drop zone have a tendency to "play to not lose" rather than to play to win. Not so in SR, where the wooden spoon means nothing, they know they will be back next season.

There are two things of course that run counter to that. The Pro12 doesn't have relegation yet they don't tend to play the SH style, and the ITM Cup, which does have relegation, but still play the SH style anyway. Admittedly, relegation in the ITM Cup is not as serious as it is in the AP or the Top 14, because unlike the AP/RFU Championship and the Top 14/Pro-D2, the NZ NPC Premiership and Championship are both run by the NZRU and sponsored by the same sponsors. They both get equal billing and airtime, and they almost run as parallell competitions, with teams from each division playing against the majority of the teams in the other dividion (4 of 7).

This is the point that has been made several times on some other topic. Top14 teams are playing for "not to lose", the pretty game is not that important, the important thing is to be here the next season as it is bringing money via sponsors and TV rights.

This is why I do not agree with people saying that we should make the 6 nations in 2 groups with relegation, I do not think it will improve the european game at all.

The relegation system has a lot of consequences : in Top 14, there are certainly half of the teams that are fighting to not get relegated. The top tier half, even if they could play maybe a better and more consistent rugby as they have a bit less pressure for the relegation, are playing on a regular basis these lower teams that could be relegated and I think it has an impact on the level/quality of their game.

Also, if you are playing in a championship with no relegation, you can build on the long run, with more peace of mind. you do not need all the time your A team ready to play, there is less pressure on players as a result. It has also an impact on injured players, they have less pressure to get back on foot quickly.

And So on.

It is defo creating a different mentality.

Again, I think this is one of the aspect that differentiate a championship like top14 and SR but not the only one.

The number of matches stays the main issue for French players.

 

[first5eight]

The competitions in the NH do not reward positive rugby as much as Super Rugby does. We saw the NH style come up short against the SH style in France v NZ and Ireland v Argentina. Bonus points in the Six Nations is the very first thing that should change.

I was actually shocked to find out there were no bonus points in the 6N. Like I literally couldnt understand why and thought my mate was taking the ****. Your bang on with that being the first thing they need to do improve the attacking standard in the NH

 

[Car]

Perform Group wants to start a "Netflix of sports". Rugby really should make sure not to miss out on that chance.

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/09/25/will-this-become-the-netflix-of-sports.html

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

Perform Group wants to start a "Netflix of sports". Rugby really should make sure not to miss out on that chance.

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/09/25/will-this-become-the-netflix-of-sports.html

It's the direction sports broadcasting is heading in. It'll see an explosion in the value of broadcasting rights for all.

 

[sigesige00]

In the European Super Rugby, Scotland should have only 1 team (home is Murrayfield), and there should be 4 professional teams (Glasgow, Edinburgh, The Borders, Aberdeen) in the 2nd tier.