A Political Thread

[Which Tyler]

Did anyone watch the lad on Question Time claiming that even though he earned over £80K he wasn't in the top 5% of earners?

Did he explain why he had that misconception? Or does he just "not feel as rich as the top 0.1%"

 

[Reiser99]

There was a lot of discussion about this and James O'Brien on LBC pointed out that top 5% of earners isn't the same as top 5% of wealth. So it's understandable that he doesn't feel wealthy. It also shows how much wealth is in the hands of a small minority. Yes he's well off and should be relatively comfortable as long as he's not throwing away his money, but I wouldn't say he's rich. Problem is that people have different definitions of wealth and where the line is depending on how much they owe. A person on £10k is going to think that a person on 80k is very rich, but the person on 50k isn't going to think the person on 80k is rich, just better off.

 

[Gavin]

Did he explain why he had that misconception? Or does he just "not feel as rich as the top 0.1%"

He didn't explain bar saying that he wasn't even in the top 50% of earners, claiming all Doctors and solicitors earn more than him.

What I thought was more interesting was how some of the audience reacted. When he was claiming he didn't believe Labour there was claps and cheers, then when it was clarified that he was technically in the taop 5% of earners they went deafly silent but then still didn't believe he was in the top 5%. The whole sort of mob mentality was there in a nut shell.

The discussion was James O'Brien was very good about it on LBC.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Happy Caturday everybody.

 

[Which Tyler]

He didn't explain bar saying that he wasn't even in the top 50% of earners, claiming all Doctors and solicitors earn more than him.

What I thought was more interesting was how some of the audience reacted. When he was claiming he didn't believe Labour there was claps and cheers, then when it was clarified that he was technically in the taop 5% of earners they went deafly silent but then still didn't believe he was in the top 5%. The whole sort of mob mentality was there in a nut shell.

The discussion was James O'Brien was very good about it on LBC.

Thank you - so he was an idiot then?

 

[Reiser99]

Thank you - so he was an idiot then?

No he wasn't, read my post above there is a difference between top 5% of earners and top 5% of wealth. Yes he was wrong, but not because he was an idiot, but because he doesn't feel like he's wealthy and one of the top earners even when he is. The problem is that so many more people earn less and there are not as many who earn more, but those few, especially the top 0.1% etc earn far more.

 

[ncurd]

Any person who is on 80k and doesnt think they have reasonable about of money is frankly talking out their ass.

I'm on less that that and I'm comfortable enough in life.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

TIL living in the UK is significantly cheaper than living in the United States

 

[Which Tyler]

No he wasn't, read my post above there is a difference between top 5% of earners and top 5% of wealth. Yes he was wrong, but not because he was an idiot, but because he doesn't feel like he's wealthy and one of the top earners even when he is. The problem is that so many more people earn less and there are not as many who earn more, but those few, especially the top 0.1% etc earn far more.

Ao he categorically IS in the top 5% or earners, but claims to not be in the top 50% of earners.
He can't tell the difference between earnings and wealth.
He thinks most doctors and lawyers earn more than him, despite him earning more than the average for either of those professions.

Still sounds like an idiot to me, even if only in that he can't tell the difference between 5% and 0.1%

 

[Reiser99]

Ao he categorically IS in the top 5% or earners, but claims to not be in the top 50% of earners.
He can't tell the difference between earnings and wealth.
He thinks most doctors and lawyers earn more than him, despite him earning more than the average for either of those professions.

Still sounds like an idiot to me, even if only in that he can't tell the difference between 5% and 0.1%

While I understand that, I think the issue is that people didn't realise there is such a big difference between top 5% of earners and top 5% of wealth. As I said he doesn't feel as though he's in the top 5% and most people would agree with him. He certainly isn't a millionaire. However I do agree he doesn't realise how many people have it worse off than him. Hopefully it's given him and many others some perspective.

 

[Which Tyler]

I would disagree with that too.
I would agree that "most people earning £80k" would not feel like they're in the top 1/20 of earners. I would disagree that "most people" would not feel that someone earning 3x the national average salary is not in the top 1/20 of earners.

5% is not 1%, which is not 0.1% you'd probably need to move decimal place again from there to start talking about millionaires.
Anyone who thinks that the top 5% (so ~2,300,000 people in the UK) are millionaires... is an idiot.

Pretty much anyone who doesn't know that IT professionals are amongst the highest paid in the UK (especially, someone working in IT) is getting on for being an idiot.

What he was saying, in essence, was "I don't want all that much, compared to the high earners (doctors, solicitors, dentists, pilots) I hang out with - (I dont hang out with nurses, secretaries, hygienists, stewardesses etc, let alone factory workers, teachers, zero-hour contractors or unemployed people etc).
It's the same attitude that leads someone like Theresa May to claim that anyone earning less than £30k is "unskilled"

 

[Reiser99]

I would disagree with that too.
I would agree that "most people earning £80k" would not feel like they're in the top 1/20 of earners. I would disagree that "most people" would not feel that someone earning 3x the national average salary is not in the top 1/20 of earners.

5% is not 1%, which is not 0.1% you'd probably need to move decimal place again from there to start talking about millionaires.
Anyone who thinks that the top 5% (so ~2,300,000 people in the UK) are millionaires... is an idiot.

Pretty much anyone who doesn't know that IT professionals are amongst the highest paid in the UK (especially, someone working in IT) is getting on for being an idiot.

What he was saying, in essence, was "I don't want all that much, compared to the high earners (doctors, solicitors, dentists, pilots) I hang out with - (I dont hang out with nurses, secretaries, hygienists, stewardesses etc, let alone factory workers, teachers, zero-hour contractors or unemployed people etc).
It's the same attitude that leads someone like Theresa May to claim that anyone earning less than £30k is "unskilled"

I agree, I guess my point is that it is ambiguous in the minds of others and that's what has led to the confusion. Problem is when the majority of people believe something to be factually incorrect then there is a clear educational problem around the issue and it seems that it applies to many aspects of British society unfortunately. The main cause being people believe what they read in newspapers as gospel.

 

[Gavin]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ite-fact-check-general-election-a9212076.html

The Conservatives have set up a website that purports to contain Labour's manifesto, in a bid to trick voters looking for the document.

The governing party paid Google to promote the website labourmanifesto.co.uk towards the top of its results for people searching for the opposition plan.

You would wonder why a trustworthy party, who claims their manifesto is better than the rest, would have to do such a thing...

 

[Amiga500]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ite-fact-check-general-election-a9212076.html

You would wonder why a trustworthy party, who claims their manifesto is better than the rest, would have to do such a thing...

A pack of liars.

Of the two, who would you sooner invite into your house for a cuppa?

I'd say for most people (including some who will vote for him), it wouldn't be Boris Johnson.

 

[Reiser99]

Well the Tory manifesto had only one big surprise which was to recruit 50,000 new nurses, which is more than labour, yet whilst spending less.

Took less than 24 hours to highlight another Tory lie.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...FCIe4EI5fx3K5TVh6Ki5y0szJQ#Echobox=1574614857

 

[General Melchett]

What are the electoral commission actually doing? Are they just some token body who are there to tick a few boxes? How can a political party use such deception and dirty tactics to win office and then expect everyone in the country to abide by the law. I've lived through a few general elections but have never seen it as bad as this or the 2016 referendum.

 

[Reiser99]

What are the electoral commission actually doing? Are they just some token body who are there to tick a few boxes? How can a political party use such deception and dirty tactics to win office and then expect everyone in the country to abide by the law. I've lived through a few general elections but have never seen it as bad as this or the 2016 referendum.

I think I saw an announcement from them that their job is mainly to oversee finances and they actually have no remit when it comes to how parties behave.

 

[Gavin]

For as much as I dislike Andrew Neil he is a good interviewer, but I feel he talks over his interviewee too much.

Can't see how Boris Johnson is going to survive a grilling by him

 

[General Melchett]

For as much as I dislike Andrew Neil he is a good interviewer, but I feel he talks over his interviewee too much.

Can't see how Boris Johnson is going to survive a grilling by him

I have seen him do the same but usually with strong justification because the interviewee simply swerved his question or responded with rehearsed soundbites or dubious stats.

 

[Gavin]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2019-50552068

The chief rabbi has strongly criticised Labour, claiming the party is not doing enough to root out anti-Jewish racism - and asked people to "vote with their conscience" in the general election.

In the Times, Ephraim Mirvis said "a new poison - sanctioned from the very top - has taken root" in the party.

Labour's claim it had investigated all cases of anti-Semitism in its ranks was a "mendacious fiction", he added.

Jeremy Corbyn says Labour is tackling anti-Semitism by expelling members.

I imagine Andrew Neil will hit Corbyn hard tonight with the anti-Semitism questions.