A Political Thread

[Ragey Erasmus]

When did I use the word "overwhelming". I said majority, those are two different words. I'll reply to the rest of your insanity this weekend.


How did I lie about it? I went back and read through the posts until I saw it. I have a life, I cannot sift through an internet forum all day.

Erm well let's see, it takes a few seconds to skim through and look for a long response. Any rational person would find their reply and look onwards from there. Considering it was the FIRST comment after that, you clearly didn't look and the fact that even now you are running with this lie just proves your mentality. You lied, you got caught, just ******* man up and admit it rather than coming up with more bullshit excuses like "oh I have a life". I spend maybe 15 minutes max on here any day can I can find your drivel in no time at all. As for the overwhelming majority, why don't you look at what that foul "strong and stable" witch we call a PM has been saying. A small majority is being presented as "the will of the British people", it isn't and in a democracy mob rule is not the way forwards. Your own Saint Farage said that if it had a similar winning margin in favour of remaining he would demand another referendum.

The lack of integrity and honesty among Trumpers and Brexiters is actually sickening.

 

[The Jones Boy]

It's politics young Rage, honesty and integrity are optional elements at the best of times.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Which parts of the leaked manifesto are about complete equalisation of what one can achive? How many of us will a railway company for instance?

The sum of the parts of Labour's maniesto and the overall tone of Corbyn's campaign. "For the Many, not the few" is classic Socialist Jingoisom of mobilising the working class versus the elite; Crobyn and McDonnell's aims equalising the masses, as if they are one homogenous Group for the sake of removing inequality and justice.

I don't understand your second question.

My point is does the capitalist model work on the NHS, Energy and Transport.

I don't personally have a problem with the state intervening in these three areas. The question is how much to provide a decent public service.

 

[ncurd]

I'll reply to the rest of your insanity this weekend.

Monday 15th May 2017
Still waiting for post at weekend argument shattering post.

You complete ignored my post in your inability to read the conversation you've involved yourself with.

 

[The Jones Boy]

The Conservatives delivered us Brexit.
Cheers, thanks for that.
The Banks are talking about setting up shop in Europe as a precaution for the outcome, that means, clear the decks ladies and gentlemen, they are already preparing new digs in Paris, Frankfurt and Dublin.
As if life was'nt tough enough under Conservative driven 'austerity'.
Immigration was a key component for a lot of brexit voters, and here Teresa May is saying that the Conservatives will hold immigration down to tens of thousands per year.
Except that immigration has been proven to bring wealth to this country.
The wealthiest people do not want a hold on immigration.
Cheap labour makes for bigger profits.

We have been tightening our belts here in Britain for 6 years under Osborne and co. and lo and behold, the deficit is bigger than it ever was... so what exactly were the last 6 years of hardship all about?
The rich have unquestionably become considerably richer under the Conservative govt
The public services have been cut and the Conservatives have let them run down.
Taxation for the wealthiest was relaxed by Osborne as soon as he came into power, and now there isnt enough taxation of the wealthiest 5% in the country to help fund the vital services.

The number of homeless people, sleeping rough has rocketed under the Conservatives.
The number of food banks has rocketed under the Conservatives.
Now in terms of wage growth and earning power, the regular worker in Britain is facing the worst situation in nearly 200 years.
Remember Napoleon folks?
Yeah... thats how long it has been since earning potential was this low.

Austerity is set to continue well into the 2020s and the current decade is now on course to be the worst for pay growth since the Napoleonic wars, according to an analysis of the Budget by a leading think tank.
'The Resolution Foundation' said Britain was braced for an "unprecedented" 15 years of further spending cuts and low pay growth and urged Philip Hammond, the Chancellor, to revisit support for lower-income households in future budgets.

Thanks George, David and Teresa.
Thanks for dividing the country into Brexit and Remain, for widening the gap between the super rich and the 'jams'.
Thanks for the austerity that has seen budgets slashed for schools, nurses, the NHS, the mentally ill and the increasing level of homeless people and for what, an increase in the deficit.
Wow
What a colossal monumental level of incompetence and failure of the vast majority of citizens in this country.

Conservative members are quick to point at the high level of employment.
Yeah, thats great when you simply call small hours of part time work, a zero hour contract and claim that it is bonafide full time employment.
We are not all so gullible.

I'll be voting Labour.
Mostly as a protest vote, but partly because there is no compassion whatsoever in Teresa May or her party for the rich.
It does'nt matter which party you vote for the deficit is going to grow, so vote for the party that will actively improve services and target the tax breaks on the most wealthy in the country and get them and the richest corporations paying their FAIR SHARE of the tax burden.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I fully admit that I'm in a bit of an anti-tory bubble, I only know of person in my age range voting conservative and that's a hooray Henry mummy and daddy's money type kid I know from uni, but I just can't understand how the Tories are gaining more and more popularity.
Like I really can't understand it, they're just bad for everybody yet people are convinced they're somehow good.
It's mind boggling.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

I am no Tory lover, but reading Corbyn's manifesto and I just wonder what planet he, McDonnell (who doesn't even know what the current deficit is - does he even care) are on. Just tax, borrow and spend - 21st century socialism style. They just have no idea how to win a General election in this country and how to appeal to the middle class voters.
Even if some of their policies are appealing, they just come across as incompetent to me and have not earned the trust that they can even manage the scale of what they are proposing.

 

[The Jones Boy]

Diane Abbot- what is that all about?
The Tories don't have to shoot labour in the foot, when you have Diane Abbot on your team you are starting from a handicapped position.

Olly, regarding the polls, I simply follow the money.
The media is not free, it is owned.
The small group of wealthy people who own the media have no desire to pay more tax.
Corbyn and co. will make them pay more tax.
Ergo, they support Osborne's easing of the tax on the wealthiest members of our society.
Polls can give you any answer you desire depending on how you set up the questions.
How do you think Rupert Murdoch and co. will be phrasing questions?
Who do you think they will target in their polls?
The media generally determines who will win an election as they herd the sheep into their voting channels.

@Blindside; it doesn't matter who gets in the deficit grows.
If the conservatives get in the majority of us suffer austerity, our earning potential and buying power plummets, the very rich get richer and ... the deficit grows.
If Labour get in the majority of us get a better system when we interface with the transport network, the NHS, schools, or the nursing fraternity, and ... the deficit grows.
Different roads, same outcome.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Polls can give you any answer you desire depending on how you set up the questions.

 

[The Jones Boy]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...onic-wars-warns-budget-analysis-a7619811.html

 

[Bada-Bing!]

@Blindside; it doesn't matter who gets in the deficit grows.
If the conservatives get in the majority of us suffer austerity, our earning potential and buying power plummets, the very rich get richer and ... the deficit grows.
If Labour get in the majority of us get a better system when we interface with the transport network, the NHS, schools, or the nursing fraternity, and ... the deficit grows.
Different roads, same outcome.

Yep and the State gets too big and unsustainable. It's nothing new what Corbyn is offering. His policies would take 20-30 years to put into practise to how he would want them. The British electorate won't have the patience. Labour will lose this one and this one badly.

 

[ncurd]

I fully admit that I'm in a bit of an anti-tory bubble, I only know of person in my age range voting conservative and that's a hooray Henry mummy and daddy's money type kid I know from uni, but I just can't understand how the Tories are gaining more and more popularity.
Like I really can't understand it, they're just bad for everybody yet people are convinced they're somehow good.
It's mind boggling.

I probably live in the microclimate that partially explains it. Middle-Class degree educated men earning above the national average but below 80k. Most of whom voted to stay in the EU.

Very few like the Tories and find this whole strong and stable line infuriating. However they simply will not vote for Corbyn's radical changes which they see as completely unaffordable with the costed changes including privatisation having a 20 billion shortfall.

You suggest to them voting Lib Dem but they either (a) don't belive in a second referendum as the first one should be good enough even though they voted the other way. A 4th national poll will only cause more upheaval. Or (b) a vote them is simply a waste in their constituency thanks to FPTP.


It really is Labour credibility that is harming them and with Corbyn saying yesterday we've not fought a just war since 1945 many people won't for him for not supporting the Falklands conflict.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Diane Abbot- what is that all about?
The Tories don't have to shoot labour in the foot, when you have Diane Abbot on your team you are starting from a handicapped position.

It's unpc to say it but it's what everyone is thinking: she is a token black person in JC's team who he used to shag. Not chosen on merit whatsoever. An indicator of the talent in JC and Labour's so called "Government in waiting". A lack of competency, as well as credibility are the biggest factors against electing Corbyn, for all his great ideas and May/Tories faults/failings.

Once Labour lose this election badly, I hope for the sake of democracy in this country a new party can evolve from them to give the country and a realistic choice to the Tories. If En Marche in the short space of time Macron got elected, then no reason it can't be done here in 2022. Just waiting for June 8 for Corbyn to be put out of his deluded fantasy that he can become PM.

 

[ncurd]

We tried a new center party in the 1980's with the SDP it failed and led to a merger with the Liberal's to form the Lib Dems.

Our FPTP system and lack of Presidential run off (like the French) stops an insurgent campaign really taking off this can be seen as recently as 2 years where UKIP polled 12.9% of the vote but got 1 seat. The Lib Dems have struggled for decades for the amount of votes they get, representing the amount of seats they get.

The coalition goverment and what happeed to the Lib Dems due to it proves how poor we are as nation on the idea of poltical comprimise.

The AV referendum proved how hard the system is to fix unless the party in power establishes it unilaterally (which won't happen because the party of power benefits from that system) because the public want 'strong winners' in charge.



We are constrained by our political system people want a centerist party that is Eurosceptic but when you look at our politicans and people inclined to be political and run you only really find those people on the right to far right and left to far left. Hell even our current Prime Minster the grand champion of Brexit campaigned to remain.

 

[McTallshort]

I fully admit that I'm in a bit of an anti-tory bubble, I only know of person in my age range voting conservative and that's a hooray Henry mummy and daddy's money type kid I know from uni, but I just can't understand how the Tories are gaining more and more popularity.
Like I really can't understand it, they're just bad for everybody yet people are convinced they're somehow good.
It's mind boggling.

And how are Labour any better?

 

[McTallshort]

I probably live in the microclimate that partially explains it. Middle-Class degree educated men earning above the national average but below 80k. Most of whom voted to stay in the EU.

Very few like the Tories and find this whole strong and stable line infuriating. However they simply will not vote for Corbyn's radical changes which they see as completely unaffordable with the costed changes including privatisation having a 20 billion shortfall.

You suggest to them voting Lib Dem but they either (a) don't belive in a second referendum as the first one should be good enough even though they voted the other way. A 4th national poll will only cause more upheaval. Or (b) a vote them is simply a waste in their constituency thanks to FPTP.


It really is Labour credibility that is harming them and with Corbyn saying yesterday we've not fought a just war since 1945 many people won't for him for not supporting the Falklands conflict.

As a working class non degree educated man earning above the national average but below 80k I would have to completely agree with everything you just said.

Also as an ex Squaddie I and every single former and serving squaddie I know would never vote for Corbyn.

 

[ncurd]

My main point with 'degree educated' is ward off the 'oh its just non-intelligent people voting this way' arguments not to infer anyone without one was stupid.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

We tried a new center party in the 1980's with the SDP it failed and led to a merger with the Liberal's to form the Lib Dems.

Our FPTP system and lack of Presidential run off (like the French) stops an insurgent campaign really taking off this can be seen as recently as 2 years where UKIP polled 12.9% of the vote but got 1 seat. The Lib Dems have struggled for decades for the amount of votes they get, representing the amount of seats they get.

The coalition goverment and what happeed to the Lib Dems due to it proves how poor we are as nation on the idea of poltical comprimise.

The AV referendum proved how hard the system is to fix unless the party in power establishes it unilaterally (which won't happen because the party of power benefits from that system) because the public want 'strong winners' in charge.

We are constrained by our political system people want a centerist party that is Eurosceptic but when you look at our politicans and people inclined to be political and run you only really find those people on the right to far right and left to far left. Hell even our current Prime Minster the grand champion of Brexit campaigned to remain.

Then we're fcuked!!!

 

[ncurd]

Yup totally the only good thing that come of this is Labour elect a new leader who is not a complete arse.....don't bet on it though.

 

[McTallshort]

My main point with 'degree educated' is ward off the 'oh its just non-intelligent people voting this way' arguments not to infer anyone without one was stupid.

yeah its wasn't a dig mate