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A Political Thread pt. 2

Whilst an important show of support like the EU yesterday domestically it doesn't stop him being a woefully inadequate leader who should be out of office.

At least he might actually fix our refugee policy and systems...doubt it.
 
The Polish, Czech and Slovene leaders all visited Kyiv while it was surrounded. Boris and the EU Commission all visit when the nearest Russian military units are a minimum of 50 miles away. None of the above have given a single weapon to Ukraine that will make a counteroffensive feasible and all have pulled punches on sanctions. Inviting Zelensky to speak to your parliament then visiting him in Kyiv smacks of politicians trying to get a photo op with a gold medallist or rock star. I don't find it tasteful for those doing it after the Russians withdrew.

Russia has almost all of Luhansk now and in the first 48hrs finally appears to have broken through the defences in Donetsk. So the question is likely will Russia settle for Donbas or want more? And will NATO encourage Ukraine to seek peace if jets and tanks aren't forthcoming?
 
On France, I can see Macron messing this up. He has been goaded by the rather unpleasant Polish government and came out with a broadly accurate but politically ill advised response (the Polish government has tried to (or did?) make it an offence to talk about Polish cooperation in identifying Jews in WWII). Similarly he may have had his own 'basket of deplorables' or 'bigoted woman' moment by calling Le Pen's platform racist (also broadly accurate but politically inept when 30%+ are voting for the far right, it's just going to firm up their turnout).

If the far right makes gains in Europe at a time when the far right is creating war in Europe then I think it says it all about the medium to long term prospects for the species in terms of rule of law, wealth inequality/corruption, press freedom, fair elections and environmental action.

www.euronews.com

French President Macron calls Polish PM 'a far-right anti-Semite'

In an interview with Le Parisien on Thursday, Macron accused Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki of being "a far-right anti-Semite, who bans the LGBT", after accusing him of "interfering in the French political campaign".
www.euronews.com www.euronews.com

www.euronews.com

Macron hits out at 'racist' Le Pen as gloves come off ahead of French election

By Dominique Vidalon and Ingrid Melander
www.euronews.com www.euronews.com
 
Despite the oligarch connection with the conservatives the UK has generally been very strong on Russia/anti Russia and anti Putin for a long time, and genuinely have been world leading in our help to the Ukraine in terms of military aid going back years and years, and took the Russian threat on the Ukrainian border very seriously from day dot
The Ukrainian vice president recently said
"The UK is the leader in defence support for Ukraine. The leader in the antiwar coalition. The leader in sanctions against the Russian aggressor,"
Click to expand...
and the Ukrainian people apparently view the UK as stronger allies than the EU


You can think BoJo and his merry band of ***** are ***** but still acknowledge when they do the right thing
The vaccine rollout was another one where the FBPE lot were trying their hardest to spin it as a negative because we were genuinely world leading in it
 
Yulia said:
The Ukrainian people like Poland much more, country that hosts ordinary people, give them documents and material help to manage a decent life in Poland during the war
Click to expand...
True true, I meant more the EU as a whole rather than individual nations - people keep trying to paint Macron as this hero because he keeps having incredibly staged photoshoots of him looking upset or exhausted because of negotiations between the EU and Russia etc. and then using that as a stick to beat the UK with when you've still got multiple European nations opposing sanctions/cut offs etc.

The UK is not without fault during this conflict at all, especially in terms of allowing refugees in etc. but many want to act like we're practically backing Putin
 
TRF_Olyy said:
Despite the oligarch connection with the conservatives the UK has generally been very strong on Russia/anti Russia and anti Putin for a long time, and genuinely have been world leading in our help to the Ukraine in terms of military aid going back years and years, and took the Russian threat on the Ukrainian border very seriously from day dot
The Ukrainian vice president recently said

and the Ukrainian people apparently view the UK as stronger allies than the EU


You can think BoJo and his merry band of ***** are ***** but still acknowledge when they do the right thing
The vaccine rollout was another one where the FBPE lot were trying their hardest to spin it as a negative because we were genuinely world leading in it
Click to expand...

There is no doubt that NATO members, with the UK as one of the very best, can be proud that their efforts in supplying weaponry has helped tens of millions of people in west Ukraine to hopefully remain independent. I am in danger of overlooking that.

But the UK pushes hard publicly for sanctions on energy and financial transactions, because it is less interlinked with Russia than some EU members in these matters and therefore wouldn't take such a hit. Whereas on sanctions that would hurt the UK, such as those around Oligarchs it is very slow, with long warning periods and mysteriously selective targeting. Similar story on refugees obviously where the UK hasnt done a great deal (although hopefully many will be able to start returning to western Ukraine before long).

The EU and US will be exactly the same of course, pushing for sanctions that have the least impact domestically. So I'm not bashing the British government in particular, just suggesting the cheerleading and photo ops aren't of much tangible assistance to Ukraine and seem primarily geared towards a domestic audience.
 
Bruce_ma gooshvili said:
So I'm not bashing the British government in particular, just suggesting the cheerleading and photo ops aren't of much tangible assistance to Ukraine and seem primarily geared towards a domestic audience.
Click to expand...
It's definitely a photo op but I think it's as much for Ukraine as it is for the UK - they've been handling the propaganda game like pros throughout the war, and having world leaders walking the streets of Kyiv is going to be spun as a boost to the people doing the fighting that the world is behind them that they're obviously winning as why would BoJo/Ursula etc. be walking streets that aren't safe?
 
TRF_Olyy said:
The vaccine rollout was another one where the FBPE lot were trying their hardest to spin it as a negative because we were genuinely world leading in it
Click to expand...
Intially it waned severely after the initial push when they announced Covid was over (in 2021). I don't think anyone really tried to spin it as a negative just tried to point out it that Brexit had **** all to do with its success and more to do with the NHS and local surgeries being the main place distribution was happening. When it went back to hubs and sub contractors it fell behind everyone else.

Like I said it's the difference between doing a good thing and the reason why your doing it.
 
Tallshort said:
No he didn't (lose the argument)
Click to expand...

In your opinion. I made a tongue in cheek comment about him saying "It really is astonishing" and got told to **** off. You might think that's acceptable but I don't.

On a serious note I'm fully behind the UK making public gestures of support to Ukraine but seeing Boris on the world stage representing the UK makes my stomach churn. He's a liar, a charlatan and if the Tory MPs had done their job properly they would have booted him out for breaking the law on multiple occasions when the rest of us followed the rules. Let's see what the public think at the May elections.
 
The Oggmonster said:
Let's see what the public think at the May elections.
Click to expand...
Think history has shown the UK public are happy to lick Tory boot, unfortunately
The may elections might trend more liberal as turnout will be poor but the GE I'd be surprised if it wasn't another Tory win
 
Bruce_ma gooshvili said:
On France, I can see Macron messing this up. He has been goaded by the rather unpleasant Polish government and came out with a broadly accurate but politically ill advised response (the Polish government has tried to (or did?) make it an offence to talk about Polish cooperation in identifying Jews in WWII). Similarly he may have had his own 'basket of deplorables' or 'bigoted woman' moment by calling Le Pen's platform racist (also broadly accurate but politically inept when 30%+ are voting for the far right, it's just going to firm up their turnout).

If the far right makes gains in Europe at a time when the far right is creating war in Europe then I think it says it all about the medium to long term prospects for the species in terms of rule of law, wealth inequality/corruption, press freedom, fair elections and environmental action.

www.euronews.com

French President Macron calls Polish PM 'a far-right anti-Semite'

In an interview with Le Parisien on Thursday, Macron accused Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki of being "a far-right anti-Semite, who bans the LGBT", after accusing him of "interfering in the French political campaign".
www.euronews.com www.euronews.com

www.euronews.com

Macron hits out at 'racist' Le Pen as gloves come off ahead of French election

By Dominique Vidalon and Ingrid Melander
www.euronews.com www.euronews.com
Click to expand...
from what I heard (the Economist released a summation podcast on their French election series yesterday) the two far right candidates have taken a bit of a hit because of their admiration of Putin but have been making in roads on historical socialist areas

Macron is apparently fully confident about making it to the finals and hasn't really campaigned/deferred to the ongoing war in Ukraine (which is following the pattern of accurate but not smart).
 
Labour really need to make more of the one rule for them, one rule for the rest.
 
Sleaze was what brought down the Major government and it seems like the current Tory impropriety and arrogant aloofness is every bit as bad as this. We aren't talking people simply being dishonest in the bedroom, we are talking about people being dishonest with vast sums of money.
 

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