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A Political Thread pt. 2

Ragey Erasmus said:
The report states that they are adhering to government demands for censorship more than ever. In addition, even though account suspensions for hateful content have reduced, post removal for hateful content has increased. Also previously 96k accounts were suspended for abuse/harassment, this has increased to 1.1 million under Musk.

Data Shows X Is Suspending Far Fewer Users for Hate Speech

X has shared insight into how its updated approach to moderation is impacting its enforcement.
www.socialmediatoday.com

So account suspensions for hateful content is very much a case of cherry picking a stat. The rest of the stats paint a very different picture.
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It's the stat the article you posted focused on though...

I agree, government requests for content removal has increased, and are being complied with more, but that makes total sense does it not?

Twitter used a stringent TOS on speech, when that was relaxed of course governments were going to intervene at a much higher rate. Especially in the first few years of ownership where X is trying to negotiate legal red lines in each country, changing legal definitions and even landscapes...

I'm not defending Musks actions, maybe he is lenient toward governments for financial interest, and the theories about requests and removals are just that, from both of us. But when Dorsey comes out and acknowledges Twitter was politically biased and he was powerless to stop it, like Zuckerberg just saying 'oopsie we backed the wrong horse' and had the gall and ability to block a sitting US president after acknowledging (after leaks of messages proving it) the 2 tweets they did it for didn't have merit to ban, then it's become a major issue, even before the child porn issues etc...

I would say, and without too much research, X banning Erdoğan political rival looks to be egregious also, I'm not surenif you've looked into it, but X is fighting with Erdoğan about thousands of requests for banning political and protest leaders.
 
Saintjay said:
Interesting that some lesbian groups are celebrating the ruling. I didn't realise they had a dog in the fight but upon reading i can see why.
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Emphasis on some Lesbian groups the vast majority of Lesbians are supportive of Trans people and never felt threatened that they suddenly has to be attracted to trans-women or they were discriminatory. That was always culture war BS you're attracted to who your attracted to end of. I mean this is kind of crap the LGB Alliance come up with,

""The ruling confirms that the words 'gay' and 'lesbian' refer to same-sex sexual orientation and makes it absolutely clear that lesbians wishing to form associations of any size are lawfully entitled to exclude men – whether or not they possess a GRC (gender recognition certificate),"

Like I'm unsure how any of this had anything to do with what you are legally are entitled to do in terms of relationships you build.

I'm trying to dig through this I don't think there is anything remarkable here, which is why Trans groups immediately said this is not as bad for them as headlines make out,

Sex refers biology (I'd like to see how the ruling handles intersex people as I keep seeing binary). Obviously thing like NHS need to treat you in terms of your actual biology. Of course some same-sex spaces can't always trans inclusive (such as some women's shelters)
Gender is more fluid.

Honestly think this entire issue is Culture War nonsense and Scottish government conflating the two things.
 
ncurd said:
Emphasis on some Lesbian groups the vast majority of Lesbians are supportive of Trans people and never felt threatened that they suddenly has to be attracted to trans-women or they were discriminatory. That was always culture war BS you're attracted to who your attracted to end of. I mean this is kind of crap the LGB Alliance come up with,

""The ruling confirms that the words 'gay' and 'lesbian' refer to same-sex sexual orientation and makes it absolutely clear that lesbians wishing to form associations of any size are lawfully entitled to exclude men – whether or not they possess a GRC (gender recognition certificate),"

Like I'm unsure how any of this had anything to do with what you are legally are entitled to do in terms of relationships you build.

I'm trying to dig through this I don't think there is anything remarkable here, which is why Trans groups immediately said this is not as bad for them as headlines make out,

Sex refers biology (I'd like to see how the ruling handles intersex people as I keep seeing binary). Obviously thing like NHS need to treat you in terms of your actual biology. Of course some same-sex spaces can't always trans inclusive (such as some women's shelters)
Gender is more fluid.

Honestly think this entire issue is Culture War nonsense and Scottish government conflating the two things.
Click to expand...
I guess that's how they've come to this conclusion 🤷‍♂️

As for the culture war, it's always been peddled by grifters on the Internet. The majority of people don't care or bother with it.
 
Weldit said:
I guess that's how they've come to this conclusion 🤷‍♂️

As for the culture war, it's always been peddled by grifters on the Internet. The majority of people don't care or bother with it.
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Yeah I mean polling on trans issues in terms of priority and overall sentiment is nowhere near the levels the media make out.

Most people accept Jeff in now Tammy and get on with their lives. Sometimes they screw up Tammy doesn't care as long as it was a genuine mistake even if it frustrating.

But hey get more subscribers and clicks for beating down on them.
 
ncurd said:
Emphasis on some Lesbian groups the vast majority of Lesbians are supportive of Trans people and never felt threatened that they suddenly has to be attracted to trans-women or they were discriminatory. That was always culture war BS you're attracted to who your attracted to end of. I mean this is kind of crap the LGB Alliance come up with,

""The ruling confirms that the words 'gay' and 'lesbian' refer to same-sex sexual orientation and makes it absolutely clear that lesbians wishing to form associations of any size are lawfully entitled to exclude men – whether or not they possess a GRC (gender recognition certificate),"

Like I'm unsure how any of this had anything to do with what you are legally are entitled to do in terms of relationships you build.

I'm trying to dig through this I don't think there is anything remarkable here, which is why Trans groups immediately said this is not as bad for them as headlines make out,

Sex refers biology (I'd like to see how the ruling handles intersex people as I keep seeing binary). Obviously thing like NHS need to treat you in terms of your actual biology. Of course some same-sex spaces can't always trans inclusive (such as some women's shelters)
Gender is more fluid.

Honestly think this entire issue is Culture War nonsense and Scottish government conflating the two things.
Click to expand...
Does seem a mess of the Scottish government's making.

Be interesting to see what happens with the NHS Fife changing room case next. I think they will side on the case of the employer but am not so sure now.
 
Saintjay said:
Does seem a mess of the Scottish government's making.

Be interesting to see what happens with the NHS Fife changing room case next. I think they will side on the case of the employer but am not so sure now.
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I think the changing room case is still on the side of the employer.

My basic interpretation is unless the employee policy access was on the based of biological sex the employee doesn't have cause for complaint.

More importantly she was dismissed due to discriminatory actions towards the doctor not because she was against the hospital policy of allowing trans-women in the changing room. (ie she didn't raise issues with the doctor entering the space as per hospital policy at the time with HR she acted hostile and discriminatory to the doctor).

Here's the summary.
1744804375701.png
 
Weldit said:

UK Supreme Court rules legal definition of a woman is based on biological sex - live updates

Judges say the "concept of sex is binary" while cautioning that the landmark ruling should not be seen as victory of one side over another.
www.bbc.co.uk
Click to expand...


I think this was always going to be the case.

Someone said it correct, that a lot of this is culture war BS, but there have been some serious concerns mostly surrounding female only spaces, specifically Refuges.

Stonewall and Women's aid went head to head for a bit recently, due to the lack of 'trans inclusion' in some of their female only shelters. Ironically enough I think some of their arguments were based on studies around removing males from DV victims environment being counter productive to recovery. There was also the argument made, that by excluding trans women women's aid were conflating trans women with perpetrators of DV (welcome to men's world).

Ultimately, and interestingly, noone really cares about trans men, outside of gay bath houses etc, most of the focus is on trans women, and the potential dangers they pose.

I think this is the ire from lesbian groups and LGB groups who don't align with trans issues.

And there isn't just a distinction between the LGB and the TQ, there have always been big issues amongst the L and G, and the Bs, it has become politically convenient to lump everyone in (including non white straight people) to the cause, and from trans friends I've heard grumblings about the introduction of MAPs, and Zoophilia to the identities under the umbrella also.

Ultimately though, as a guy this issue is easy for me to ignore, refuge? not my space to be allowed in, sports? ye let's get rid of gender based categories and have everyone compete, prisons? Segregate everyone, and allow all trans men into every man's space, I don't think any men really care or would notice mostly. This is a female issue, that seems to divide, I just dislike that it's divided politically and not based on the individual issue.

I'm willing to bet every pro female campaigner is conservative, and every pro trans campaigner is super liberal (left leaning), it'll be about who makes the most noise and fuss probably.
 
dirty harry said:
And there isn't just a distinction between the LGB and the TQ, there have always been big issues amongst the L and G, and the Bs, it has become politically convenient to lump everyone in (including non white straight people) to the cause, and from trans friends I've heard grumblings about the introduction of MAPs, and Zoophilia to the identities under the umbrella also.
Click to expand...
My general understaning is majority LGBTQIA+ groups and people are quite happy with the rainbow umbrella. But as always there's always splitters ;)

As always some groups have legitimate concerns then there are other like LGB Alliance who create fake strawman arguements. (like have I as a straight guy ever felt required to find trans-women attractive, no, no more than I'm required to find men attractive). Sadly the stawman groups tend to be the loudest which stop decent discourse.
 
ncurd said:
My general understaning is majority LGBTQIA+ groups and people are quite happy with the rainbow umbrella. But as always there's always splitters ;)

As always some groups have legitimate concerns then there are other like LGB Alliance who create fake strawman arguements. (like have I as a straight guy ever felt required to find trans-women attractive, no, no more than I'm required to find men attractive). Sadly the stawman groups tend to be the loudest which stop decent discourse.
Click to expand...
Depends on a few differing things, the generation of the person, the heritage background and sadly the political standing. I think a vast majority of the public, but small majority of those included, are probably happy with the LGBTQIA+ umbrella (you may admit, the flag changes were a marketing stroke of genius).

From the few dozen people I know and work with, and I know this is anecdotal, few have strong issues with it, more are apathetic and just don't care, but the small majority are super happy being part of it.

I don't really know much about the LGB alliance, I'm willing to bet they have mixed intentions AND are unfairly vilified, but as you say in a small space.

As mentioned, both sides of this culture war stuff use the absolute extremes of their opponent and argue that as its consensus...

I have seen videos that straight men who don't find trans women attractive are just bigoted homophones, but I've also seen claims that all trans women are men undercover looking to harm women in their spaces, so I think it's fair to say the online rhetoric isn't honest. The same way you can find 'I attended a Trump rally and this happened' and 'I owned the lubs wearing my MAGA hat' videos, that highlight extremes and stupidity for their audience.

What I will say, is that it is kind of becoming understandably more of a social issue, and again anecdotal (kind of), since 2018 the explosion of trans identifying people in the homeless sector has 10x. In 2018 there were 2 trans young people on the books of a large homeless operator, out of 600. Today the number sits at about 18%, 100+. This is not a case of trans people finding themselves homeless, 99% of these young people were already care experienced, and have transitioned. I don't want to go into causing factors, because they are incredibly complex, varied and mostly if I start to talk about it someone will get upset very quickly and start insults etc... but the entirety of these young people are super vulnerable, and at risk en masse. It's overwhelming for services to provide support, and thebneeds per young person are incredibly high. (I would caveat this heavily though, that had these young people not transitioned, their needs and demands on services would still be high).

I'm not sure of the increase of trans people in society, but I can't imagine it is as high as those who are super vulnerable.

I do detest this idea that men fail at sports, and decide to become females to win awards and medals lol, the risk to reward ratio is way off hahah
 
dirty harry said:
snip
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I think this is best way to describe the influx of people identifying as trans

1744808276153.png

Societal acceptance just means more people are able to come out.

I mean I'm married to a bisexual woman (quite socially acceptable) who was unable to come out until recent years due to homophobic family (still not out to parents). (Discovering your wife is bisexual is not a bad thing at all)
 


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