[2025 Six Nations] Ireland vs France - 8/3/25

[BrokenWing]

Someone's had a drink

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Irish fans are holier than thou about the Dupont injury when I know for a fact that had the roles been reversed, they would have been screaming blue murder. I'm not changing my opinion - it was a horrible clear-out and Ireland have been doing that kind of thing for years. It's dangerous play. Galthie comes across as bitter a fair bit of the time but on this occasion I agree with him. It was a cheap shot.

PSDT injured Sheehan's acl with a clear out that ended up off his feet and beyond the ruck and that didn't happen because the initial attempt at rucking was fair, so there you go, confidently wrong again.

You're seeing what you want to see (clearly, you obviously don't know better than an international referee, TMO and the world rugby citing commission, but some hubris to be fair). Dupont is the most protected player in the game, if there was anything remotely wrong with the incident it would have been penalised and punished accordingly.

Jealousy is a bad look.

 

[munstermuffin]

If we rewatch the incident. There is alot of mitigating factors.
1. Dupont originally was actually off feet and had knee on Dan Sheehan.
2. Dan Sheehan was in way legally and Dupont miscalculated that and became unbalanced due to that.
3. This is the most important point. The French 5 actually backed out which meant Porter drove Beirne but the French 5 retreated so actually it was the French 5 failure to protect his 9.
4. If someone can say it was deliberate then easy say they never played the game. Look at it from Beirne POV. Porther driving him full pelt. He can't control that. And Porter POV. He seen French 5 and has to drive so could have done nothing else.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Kinda rich accusing the Irish of targeting a player. Gotta be honest here, i didn't see many of the Irish posters complaining about how other teams targeted Sexton. Are we going to pretend like that never happened?
I don't think there was any intention to hurt DP here. Drag him along, maybe, but that's it.

About the game, i don't agree with many here. I saw a solid, but not spectacular, France. And a very poor (by their own standards) Ireland. The first yc was borderline childish and cost you dearly. France's second try, well, that's one to argue about... The second YC was unlucky imo. 20 mins with 14, vs France...
France's third try was comical. Had Ire 4 been a bit more alert, like he usually is 99% of the time, and all of this would have been a non issue. Couldda, wouldda, shouldda, i know. But there is a track record we need to look at here, and we need to understand if what happened was a bug or a feature.

So of course Ireland have no one but themselves to blame, but so many things were so uncharacteristic that i feel have to give them a bit of the benefit of the doubt. Bad games happen. You are obviously not as bad as the media is currently portraying you. If a injury free Ire vs Fra was to take place next week, i'd say it's 50-50.

 

[mikebrownsauce1512]

Wow France, genuinely the best team itw on their day. When everything comes together for them they are unstoppable, outrageously big, athletic and skilful with amazing depth. Watching them do that to Ireland in Dublin was nuts.

 

[Batsumy]

Ah yes I forgot about that pesky Top14…what was I thinking…
let's see, Antoine was back playing in October when the league restarted late August. Antoine has played (official LNR stats) THREE Top14 games this season for a total of 195 min. In comparison he has played SEVEN games (3 Nov tests+4 6N) for a total of 464 minutes…
But hey the Top14 is killing him!! And Stade Toulousain are just a bunch of slave drivers paying him that astronomical salary and picking up the medical tab again, where is the League for the Defense of Human Rights when we need them…. I have blocked you, so save yourself et ferme ton claque à merde.

Rooh Monsieur is a bit touchy huh ??? I'm sure you will be able to remind us that in the last 3 full seasons, Dupont played 27, 29 and 30 matches, he had one season where he was partly injured in 2019 and then the seeasons before again he was averaagely around the 30 matches a year. As a comparison, JGP is playing max 25 match a season. I'm not even talking of 10 years ago where some french players were playing regularly up to 35 matches a year when other nation players are averageley playing between 20 and 25 matches !!!! Yes all this for the beauty of the top14 As much as it must be hard for Antoine to have to go through the surgery and the recovery, at least he will be protected from the top14 in the next 8-9 months which is not bad in some ways, we are counting on him for the next world cup and it would be nice if he was still in 1 piece by then

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Kinda rich accusing the Irish of targeting a player. Gotta be honest here, i didn't see many of the Irish posters complaining about how other teams targeted Sexton. Are we going to pretend like that never happened?
I don't think there was any intention to hurt DP here. Drag him along, maybe, but that's it.

About the game, i don't agree with many here. I saw a solid, but not spectacular, France. And a very poor (by their own standards) Ireland. The first yc was borderline childish and cost you dearly. France's second try, well, that's one to argue about... The second YC was unlucky imo. 20 mins with 14, vs France...
France's third try was comical. Had Ire 4 been a bit more alert, like he usually is 99% of the time, and all of this would have been a non issue. Couldda, wouldda, shouldda, i know. But there is a track record we need to look at here, and we need to understand if what happened was a bug or a feature.

So of course Ireland have no one but themselves to blame, but so many things were so uncharacteristic that i feel have to give them a bit of the benefit of the doubt. Bad games happen. You are obviously not as bad as the media is currently portraying you. If a injury free Ire vs Fra was to take place next week, i'd say it's 50-50.

Potentially over-emotional performance. I thought that'd help after we played down any significance of NZ in autumn amd were flatter than flat.

Still, two home losses in consecutive test windows is a sign we've dropped off a bit. No alarm bells ringing for me but and we still need to keep the focus on evolution rather than revolution but there's work to do.

To be fair we've seen a complete overhaul in our approach on the ball, I trust the management team see where our strengths are and have planned future incoming players to this approach like 2020-21. Whenever it comes right and peaks, I expect us to be able to live with anyone, the back 5 in the pack should remain as strong as ever until the next WC and players are coming through in these positions mostly. TH and wing are the only major long term concerns I have.

It's also hard to base anything on schools rugby but watching the Leinster cup a bit this year, I saw players in 4 schools who should be jumping to academy level quite smoothly which is more than the usual two and standouts elsewhere.

@Amiga500 is right that the IRFU need the systems in Ulster and Munster to bridge the gap a little bit, or get those kids exposure to Leinster grade coaching underage, because we can't rely on Leinster only, too much of a bottle neck.

I obviously want Ireland to stay in touch with the top 4 but there's going to be periods where we aren't there. If that's the next 12 months and we finish 2026 strong and build into the world cup, I'll have no complaints. England reached a world cup final with a very strong set of players, but not fully an all timer of a squad that way.

 

[Toulousain ex French fan]

The defining period in the game for me is when Ireland have 90% of possession for nearly 18 minutes and we're under the pump big time but our defense holds. We have found our defense again. This is what won us the 2022 GS. Edwards is still having an impact and that's good. If Ireland had scored in that opening quarter, I think we have a different game. I wonder about this French team's ability to come back from behind, something Ireland have been better at than we have. I think it's the hallmark of a top 3 side. We get better as the game progresses if we have an early score.
It'll be interesting to see against Scotland who tend to score early if we can come back from behind and win. This is one area I'm not sure we manage well.
Credit to Galthié, the 7-1 split was a gamble but it worked and the lads were fired up, more focused. Much better coaching.
Fickou should be back vs Sco. Depoortere is in contention as well. Barassi has been very solid defensively but is reported doubtful. Deeportere has been excellent for Bordeaux and his club partnership with Moefana pleads in his favour.

 

[Jimbo]

You are so confidently wrong, it's impressive.

Ireland/Leinster are most certainly not alone in the poor clearout technique which for the most part has become part of the game and isn't heavily officiated, it is however a law violation in general, i have been complaining about it in threads for as long as i can remember, i think where much of the frustration aimed Irelands way is the frequency its almost every ruck certainly those that opposition compete in any meaningful way, its just so much more prominent, I'm also pretty sure the quicker the ruck speed a team gets the more likely they are to be clearing out this way.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Ireland/Leinster are most certainly not alone in the poor clearout technique which for the most part has become part of the game and isn't heavily officiated, it is however a law violation in general, i have been complaining about it in threads for as long as i can remember, i think where much of the frustration aimed Irelands way is the frequency its almost every ruck certainly those that opposition compete in any meaningful way, its just so much more prominent, I'm also pretty sure the quicker the ruck speed a team gets the more likely they are to be clearing out this way.

That might be true specifically for you but to be honest, I don't buy it. Been around too long and heard too many excuses amd whinging for why Ireland or Irish teams are doing well. We had tactics no one liked before we were good and the complaints were Barely heard. All of a sudden we're regularly beating teams and it's a problem.

It started with the heineken cup amd Leinster and Munster doing well, it was unfair because the celtic league was so soft. Ignoring that Welsh teams were regularly winning that league and peaked at the semi final stages of Europe.

In 2009 it was all about the choke tackle.

Leinster now are an international team ruining competition in Europe, not a peep about Toulouse, La Rochelle or Bordeaux.

The breakdown is what it's manifested into in this team as if SA or NZ are angels playing perfect rugby. PSDT ruptured Sheehan's acl in a not perfectly legal but not foul piece of play, nada. RG Snyman gave Craig Casey a serious concussion doing the same, very little. Sam Cane actually using foul play to inuure a key player in the world cup final got less attention than this like...

For all the attention it gets, and it's constant in English media particularly, do you really think World.Rugby are just ignoring it and giving Ireland a pass? Successful French, English or NZ teams are far more lucrative.

Ireland aren't a traditional power and for all the bluster about growing the game, change at the top isn't wanted by the top. Wales got criticised for Gatland ball. Scotland players get criticised every time they win a game. It's thinly veiled. I think it goes a bit further with Ireland which I've stated before but I've no interest in getting into that here.

I don't expect it to change unless Ireland and Leinster stop competing so I'm enjoying it. I will call out absolutely unreasonable posts like the earlier two in this thread though.

Edit: Forgot that we're all arrogant and unlikeable fans now which is a shame because we were just the best craic when we were ****.

 

[munstermuffin]

The defining period in the game for me is when Ireland have 90% of possession for nearly 18 minutes and we're under the pump big time but our defense holds. We have found our defense again. This is what won us the 2022 GS. Edwards is still having an impact and that's good. If Ireland had scored in that opening quarter, I think we have a different game. I wonder about this French team's ability to come back from behind, something Ireland have been better at than we have. I think it's the hallmark of a top 3 side. We get better as the game progresses if we have an early score.
It'll be interesting to see against Scotland who tend to score early if we can come back from behind and win. This is one area I'm not sure we manage well.
Credit to Galthié, the 7-1 split was a gamble but it worked and the lads were fired up, more focused. Much better coaching.
Fickou should be back vs Sco. Depoortere is in contention as well. Barassi has been very solid defensively but is reported doubtful. Deeportere has been excellent for Bordeaux and his club partnership with Moefana pleads in his favour.

This was spoken about at time but not given enough credit. The French changed their defensive approach midway through the game. It was preplanned I think but still takes phenomenal discipline.
Shaun Edwards will always be a defensive guru brain and again it proved that way.
The destroyed Prendergast game (and this isn't a dig at SP) by identifying he is always so far back from the gainline and instead of competing at rucks fanned out and met him at about 3/4metres behind the gainline.
Then midway through the first half once they got their foothold it was aggressive and again disciplined. It will never get the credit it deserves.

 

[odw26]

Sam Cane actually using foul play to inuure a key player in the world cup final got less attention than this like...

That's a false equivalency, though, as Cane was red carded, so doesn't fit in with the "Ireland got away with it" media/public narrative.

 

[Reiser99]

I thought there was a new law around falling on legs or players when they are in vulnerable positions. That's the only one I can think of that Beirne might have fallen foul of.

 

[Jimbo]

That might be true specifically for you but to be honest, I don't buy it. Been around too long and heard too many excuses amd whinging for why Ireland or Irish teams are doing well. We had tactics no one liked before we were good and the complaints were Barely heard. All of a sudden we're regularly beating teams and it's a problem.

It started with the heineken cup amd Leinster and Munster doing well, it was unfair because the celtic league was so soft. Ignoring that Welsh teams were regularly winning that league and peaked at the semi final stages of Europe.

In 2009 it was all about the choke tackle.

Leinster now are an international team ruining competition in Europe, not a peep about Toulouse, La Rochelle or Bordeaux.

The breakdown is what it's manifested into in this team as if SA or NZ are angels playing perfect rugby. PSDT ruptured Sheehan's acl in a not perfectly legal but not foul piece of play, nada. RG Snyman gave Craig Casey a serious concussion doing the same, very little. Sam Cane actually using foul play to inuure a key player in the world cup final got less attention than this like...

For all the attention it gets, and it's constant in English media particularly, do you really think World.Rugby are just ignoring it and giving Ireland a pass? Successful French, English or NZ teams are far more lucrative.

Ireland aren't a traditional power and for all the bluster about growing the game, change at the top isn't wanted by the top. Wales got criticised for Gatland ball. Scotland players get criticised every time they win a game. It's thinly veiled. I think it goes a bit further with Ireland which I've stated before but I've no interest in getting into that here.

I don't expect it to change unless Ireland and Leinster stop competing so I'm enjoying it. I will call out absolutely unreasonable posts like the earlier two in this thread though.

Edit: Forgot that we're all arrogant and unlikeable fans now which is a shame because we were just the best craic when we were ****.

That's a pretty hot take, I was talking about a specific component of the game and outside of implying it helps with ruck speed I said nothing about it being to do with Irelands success, we have agreed on quite a bit this 6 nations so we both know I've been crediting Ireland in many ways. Ireland are clearly a great team, IMO largely due to a descent coaching ticket and a sustainable system, with a good balance of raw descent athletes. As well as the familiarity the spine of the team have. When I said more than other teams I was referring exclusively to 6 Nations teams not factoring in NZ or SA in anyway. My issue is with the safety aspect of clearing out at the breakdown.

 

[g6mcg]

That might be true specifically for you but to be honest, I don't buy it. Been around too long and heard too many excuses amd whinging for why Ireland or Irish teams are doing well. We had tactics no one liked before we were good and the complaints were Barely heard. All of a sudden we're regularly beating teams and it's a problem.

It started with the heineken cup amd Leinster and Munster doing well, it was unfair because the celtic league was so soft. Ignoring that Welsh teams were regularly winning that league and peaked at the semi final stages of Europe.

In 2009 it was all about the choke tackle.

Leinster now are an international team ruining competition in Europe, not a peep about Toulouse, La Rochelle or Bordeaux.

The breakdown is what it's manifested into in this team as if SA or NZ are angels playing perfect rugby. PSDT ruptured Sheehan's acl in a not perfectly legal but not foul piece of play, nada. RG Snyman gave Craig Casey a serious concussion doing the same, very little. Sam Cane actually using foul play to inuure a key player in the world cup final got less attention than this like...

For all the attention it gets, and it's constant in English media particularly, do you really think World.Rugby are just ignoring it and giving Ireland a pass? Successful French, English or NZ teams are far more lucrative.

Ireland aren't a traditional power and for all the bluster about growing the game, change at the top isn't wanted by the top. Wales got criticised for Gatland ball. Scotland players get criticised every time they win a game. It's thinly veiled. I think it goes a bit further with Ireland which I've stated before but I've no interest in getting into that here.

I don't expect it to change unless Ireland and Leinster stop competing so I'm enjoying it. I will call out absolutely unreasonable posts like the earlier two in this thread though.

Edit: Forgot that we're all arrogant and unlikeable fans now which is a shame because we were just the best craic when we were ****.

Agree with this. Ireland's approach to the breakdown isn't unique and is allowed by referees. Other teams are free to adopt it and I don't believe that any are reticent to do so out of concern for their opponents' health.

I suspect most fans feel quite persecuted (we know South Africa do, France still feel they suffer from not being British/Irish, pretty sure I've heard similar from NZ, Australia and Argentina). Not sure how much of it is real vs everyone getting ground down by nonsense - I don't believe the average Irish fan despises Scotland's arrogance but when you see endless headlines it adds up, even when you know the headlines you're most likely to see are the controversial ones, and most of the people piping up aren't worth listening to.

Probably inevitable in a sport which is so heavily influenced by referees, but the way every game is discussed solely as a series of independent refereeing decisions really doesn't help. No idea how you solve that but it's pretty boring when every game leads to endless screenshots of contentious decisions.

Semi-related: Wouldn't want forums locked off for fans of certain teams but it'd be nice to have less complaining from "neutral" fans about how X team are getting away with the usual cheating.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

That's a pretty hot take, I was talking about a specific component of the game and outside of implying it helps with ruck speed I said nothing about it being to do with Irelands success, we have agreed on quite a bit this 6 nations so we both know I've been crediting Ireland in many ways. Ireland are clearly a great team, IMO largely due to a descent coaching ticket and a sustainable system, with a good balance of raw descent athletes. As well as the familiarity the spine of the team have. When I said more than other teams I was referring exclusively to 6 Nations teams not factoring in NZ or SA in anyway. My issue is with the safety aspect of clearing out at the breakdown.

Sorry, meant to include "as a whole" after "I'm not buying it" above.

I'm all for making the game safer, I think I've droned on about headshots enough on these boards but that's a refereeing issue, not an Irish one.

More that the vitriol closer to previous comments (not yours) is commonplace on every online forum I see. English and Welsh fans mostly but also Scottish and South Africans. Some genuinely believe that there's a WR conspiracy in place to help Ireland.

A lot of "amazing what happens when Ireland are properly reffed" type doscourse going on this weekend. When France were equally, if not more aggressive at ruck time and copied the Irish tackle technique that has been slowong down opponents ball all tournament. When Ireland or Leinster win it's the opposite of course. I doubt you're seeing as much as I am without an Irish focus.

I thought Gardner reffed the game quite well in terms of decision making, didn't agree on everything. I thought his behaviour was poor enough, the time he gave Dupont and Aldritt wasn't matched with how he treated Doris from the get go and the matador comment wasn't great in my eyes. Probably something the IRFU should note to WR as it's not really acceptable from an arbitrator.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Agree with this. Ireland's approach to the breakdown isn't unique and is allowed by referees. Other teams are free to adopt it and I don't believe that any are reticent to do so out of concern for their opponents' health.

I suspect most fans feel quite persecuted (we know South Africa do, France still feel they suffer from not being British/Irish, pretty sure I've heard similar from NZ, Australia and Argentina). Not sure how much of it is real vs everyone getting ground down by nonsense - I don't believe the average Irish fan despises Scotland's arrogance but when you see endless headlines it adds up, even when you know the headlines you're most likely to see are the controversial ones, and most of the people piping up aren't worth listening to.

Probably inevitable in a sport which is so heavily influenced by referees, but the way every game is discussed solely as a series of independent refereeing decisions really doesn't help. No idea how you solve that but it's pretty boring when every game leads to endless screenshots of contentious decisions.

Semi-related: Wouldn't want forums locked off for fans of certain teams but it'd be nice to have less complaining from "neutral" fans about how X team are getting away with the usual cheating.

We had a general ref chat for the 2019 world cup (also triggered by Gardner coincidentally) and any ref specific comments were moved there for the tournament. Could be a shout but a moderating nightmare I imagine.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

Locking off forums/topics would be an extreme reaction. We're humans and rugby fans, we're going to disagree about things, but as long as we aren't VCing the place up I don't see any real issue.

 

[Half Pint]

. Some genuinely believe that there's a WR conspiracy in place to help Ireland.

HAHAHAHA x99
From you, this is f***n' hilarious. Open the other eye. You might see that this Ireland team aren't even halfway as good as they think they are.
Scraped past a misfiring England. Beat Scotland who didn't fire a shot. Taken to the wire by the woodenspooners and taken to the cleaners by France.
Ireland were poor. And that is their level.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

HAHAHAHA x99
From you, this is f***n' hilarious. Open the other eye. You might see that this Ireland team aren't even halfway as good as they think they are.
Scraped past a misfiring England. Beat Scotland who didn't fire a shot. Taken to the wire by the woodenspooners and taken to the cleaners by France.
Ireland were poor. And that is their level.

So you believe a WR conspiracy aiding Ireland is more likely than a team who has lost 1 game outside of other top 4 opposition in four years is good. Right.

I didn't predict Ireland to win the 6n this your or last year at the start of the tournament and had them 0-2 in SA. So think you're just upset all Ireland fans aren't plucky losers...