[2025 Six Nations] Ireland vs England - 01/02/25

[Vieux Talonneur]

Let the fear us!

Never let evidence spoil a good theory

SB's just given Ire 48 unnecessary hours in which to analyse and plan. Why would you hand a team ranked way above you even the smallest advantage? It's kind of marginal gains in reverse.

Let them worry about us is fine if you're the double World Champions with a consistent selection and a bunch of orcs.

 

[mikebrownsauce1512]

Ah, I didn't get the joke until this.

Sorry I had to go there its the only ammunition I have on the Irish

 

[Half Pint]

For Ireland it's just the opening game of the 6N. They can win or lose, and still be in with a good shout of taking their hat-trick six nations ***le.

For England, this one game will define their entire tournament, and Borthwick's career.
An away win in Dublin, and England can still carry optimism through to the 3rd game (regardless of likely losing against France) and have a tilt at a 6N ***le.
But a Lose will set up a follow-up lose to the French, and see a cowed and inward-looking team with confidence shot, facing a Scotland playing their own game-of-the-tournament ("as long as we beat the english etc")
3 L's on the bounce, and it's byebye Borthers.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I think I was more afraid of the rumoured team with Chessum at 6 to be honest. I think the primary point of difference for SA in the last couple of years is that they're not afraid to make changes week on week to attack the weaknesses of the opposition and Leinster have been similar to go unbeaten so far this season.

Chessum / Hill might not be the best option for England if they got to play in their own ideal conditions. Against us though, when we've shown that we are very vulnerable at the line out and against teams who can control / win the gainline battle in tight channels, there's a strong case for a heavy carrier and lineout option in that back row.

Now it's not really a criticism on Borthwick because I don't expect us to pick all of Baird / Izuchukwu, Prendergast and Ringrose (I really, really hope we pick Ringer) to start so we're not doing it either, nor is any team without a world cup winning coach that I can see either.

We should beat that team at home but I am wary.

 

[mikebrownsauce1512]

I think I was more afraid of the rumoured team with Chessum at 6 to be honest. I think the primary point of difference for SA in the last couple of years is that they're not afraid to make changes week on week to attack the weaknesses of the opposition and Leinster have been similar to go unbeaten so far this season.

Chessum / Hill might not be the best option for England if they got to play in their own ideal conditions. Against us though, when we've shown that we are very vulnerable at the line out and against teams who can control / win the gainline battle in tight channels, there's a strong case for a heavy carrier and lineout option in that back row.

Now it's not really a criticism on Borthwick because I don't expect us to pick all of Baird / Izuchukwu, Prendergast and Ringrose (I really, really hope we pick Ringer) to start so we're not doing it either, nor is any team without a world cup winning coach that I can see either.

We should beat that team at home but I am wary.

I agree with you regarding the England back row. We are coming up against a potential lions 4 - 8;

McCarthy Ryan
Bierne dorris VDf


Going after the lineout would have been a sensible option seeing that Irelands lineout has been poor. England back row will have to put in a huge performance.

 

[AngloScotsHybrid]

That's not really true though, @TRF_Olyy can probably do a better job answering this as the resident Sale expert, but my take is that they're often lazily cast as 'the same' because they're identical twins.

IMO, Tom hasn't really been a link man since he bulked up to play 8. He's more of a carrier and ruck hitting workhorse these days. In many ways, more of a traditional blindside. Ben is definitely lighter and more of a fetcher.

So is Tom Curry a better carrier and ruck hitting workhorse than CCS or Tom Willis?

 

[Reiser99]

So is Tom Curry a better carrier and ruck hitting workhorse than CCS or Tom Willis?

That's my concern. He's a fantastic player, but will we have that big tackler in the backrow who can stop momentum on the gainline?

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I agree with you regarding the England back row. We are coming up against a potential lions 4 - 8;

McCarthy Ryan
Bierne dorris VDf


Going after the lineout would have been a sensible option seeing that Irelands lineout has been poor. England back row will have to put in a huge performance.

Thing is Borthers watched Leinster v La Rochelle. He saw Healy being tactically subbed on 19 mins for Porter who still didn't play the full 80, but was there at the pointy end.

The spreadsheet lit up with all kinds of possibilities….

CCS for B Curry on 20 I reckon.

Agree with @Leonormous Boozer though. If anywhere near real fitness, I'd have been playing Chessum in this to go after the Irish line out. I'm assuming that they think he just hasn't got enough minutes in his legs.

 

[LIONSxv]

That's my concern. He's a fantastic player, but will we have that big tackler in the backrow who can stop momentum on the gainline?

Rucks volume will be more than CCS albeit with less effect (you could argue) no tight carrying threat in the back row and line out is a serious concern. Ireland will target close quarters and line out
The bench is dynamic though TBF. Swap out T Curry or Earl for Hill or Willis and you have a good team on paper.

 

[big ginger 8]

Thing is Borthers watched Leinster v La Rochelle. He saw Healy being tactically subbed on 19 mins for Porter who still didn't play the full 80, but was there at the pointy end.

The spreadsheet lit up with all kinds of possibilities….

CCS for B Curry on 20 I reckon.

Agree with @Leonormous Boozer though. If anywhere near real fitness, I'd have been playing Chessum in this to go after the Irish line out. I'm assuming that they think he just hasn't got enough minutes in his legs.

That move only really gets it's full impact with frontrows since you can bring them back on if there's an injury.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

That's my concern. He's a fantastic player, but will we have that big tackler in the backrow who can stop momentum on the gainline?

This is such a weird line of thought, it's like we think Underhill is the only player capable of making dominant hits
Both Curry's are more than capable of making dominant tackles - Ben had the most dominant tackles in the world (all leagues and internationals combined) a year or two ago

Tom's a good tight carrier, Ben better stretching his legs but no slouch

no tight carrying threat in the back row and line out is a serious concern.

Tom Curry has been one of England's regular targets for 6 years now how are we still saying this in the year of our lord 2025

 

[LIONSxv]

This is such a weird line of thought, it's like we think Underhill is the only player capable of making dominant hits
Both Curry's are more than capable of making dominant tackles - Ben had the most dominant tackles in the world (all leagues and internationals combined) a year or two ago

Tom's a good tight carrier, Ben better stretching his legs but no slouch


Tom Curry has been one of England's regular targets for 6 years now how are we still saying this in the year of our lord 2025

He is a decent option, however the guy is 6 1 going up against Doris , Baird or Beirne. This is exacerbated by Martin been underused and untested to a degree at this level

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

This is such a weird line of thought, it's like we think Underhill is the only player capable of making dominant hits
Both Curry's are more than capable of making dominant tackles - Ben had the most dominant tackles in the world (all leagues and internationals combined) a year or two ago

Tom's a good tight carrier, Ben better stretching his legs but no slouch


Tom Curry has been one of England's regular targets for 6 years now how are we still saying this in the year of our lord 2025

I blame Tom croft for our obsession with lineout 6s.

Ah the days when croft, wood, Haskell and robshaw were our peak of flankers and where every other casual fan was crying over staffan armitage.

 

[BPM]

Thing is Borthers watched Leinster v La Rochelle. He saw Healy being tactically subbed on 19 mins for Porter who still didn't play the full 80, but was there at the pointy end.

The spreadsheet lit up with all kinds of possibilities….

CCS for B Curry on 20 I reckon.

Agree with @Leonormous Boozer though. If anywhere near real fitness, I'd have been playing Chessum in this to go after the Irish line out. I'm assuming that they think he just hasn't got enough minutes in his legs.

Same here. But you also can't 'go after' everything. In this case, it was probably a toss up between the lineout or the breakdown and we've chosen the latter. Had Chessum been fully fit, it might have gone the other way.

 

[Rinkadink]

Something like a backrow of

6. CCS/Chessum
7. Curry (either)
8. Willis

or something like that? Then you'd have either of the unpicked from 6&7 on the bench (depending what England want to do) plus potentially Earl on late as a more dynamic option.

Looks better to me on paper. Current one seems a bit unbalanced.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Prendergast got a dead leg in training. No sweat from the coaching team however.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Prendergast got a dead leg in training. No sweat from the coaching team however.

Prince Andrew is on your coaching team?

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Prince Andrew is on your coaching team?

We have standards, he's not Northern English.

 

[AlRums]

Ah, I didn't get the joke until this.

Unusual for you being so far off.

 

[Amiga500]

*Pretending that has never described me*

Yes, thank you.

Don't flatter yerself by calling that bum fluff under yet nose a moustache....