[2025 Six Nations] Ireland vs England - 01/02/25

[big ginger 8]

Shame we've only got four lineout options, need another three or four to placate the masses

I know it's been a massive bone for you to pick but it is not something that should be dismissed out of hand. From your starting pack Itoje is the only one I'd classify as a really good lineout option.

Are the others options? Absolutely, but any back five player at the professional level is basically an option except the likes of Tuilagi.

VDF is probably a similar level target to your backrow and he'll be the worst option in the Irish back five.

There's also the knock on effect of having shorter lifters.

Is it what the game will turn on? Probably not, especially with how shite Irish lineouts have been for a while but it's not something I'd be dismissing out of hand.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Don't see why you need more than one out and out specialist tbh - defensive lineouts you've only got one guy realistically looking to steal because he needs lifters following him as he tries to read
On attacking lineouts four options is plenty, Itoje a specialist, Tom Curry a very regular target for club and country, BC and Martin both regular enough targets that they're comfortable being targets in most/all situations

Think part of the discourse is fans have decided Martin isn't an option at lineout time, treating him like he's Billy Vunipola or something, when in reality he's one of Tiger's main targets - I mean if you google his name two of the first image results are him being lifted in lineouts vs Ireland

Would having a 4 specialists be better? Yeah, but I think this is making such a mountain out of a molehill

 

[TRF_Olyy]

some stat, that

 

[AngloScotsHybrid]

Don't see why you need more than one out and out specialist tbh - defensive lineouts you've only got one guy realistically looking to steal because he needs lifters following him as he tries to read
On attacking lineouts four options is plenty, Itoje a specialist, Tom Curry a very regular target for club and country, BC and Martin both regular enough targets that they're comfortable being targets in most/all situations

Think part of the discourse is fans have decided Martin isn't an option at lineout time, treating him like he's Billy Vunipola or something, when in reality he's one of Tiger's main targets - I mean if you google his name two of the first image results are him being lifted in lineouts vs Ireland

Would having a 4 specialists be better? Yeah, but I think this is making such a mountain out of a molehill

Martin's lineout work is a concern. Its the weakest part of his game when as a lock it should be one of the strongest. He doesn't get thrown to that often and when he does he often doesn't catch it cleanly. Tigers throw to Wells or Henderson more often.
I like Martin as an alround player but it does make England's lineout problems more difficult when he is in the team.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Don't see why you need more than one out and out specialist tbh - defensive lineouts you've only got one guy realistically looking to steal because he needs lifters following him as he tries to read
On attacking lineouts four options is plenty, Itoje a specialist, Tom Curry a very regular target for club and country, BC and Martin both regular enough targets that they're comfortable being targets in most/all situations

Think part of the discourse is fans have decided Martin isn't an option at lineout time, treating him like he's Billy Vunipola or something, when in reality he's one of Tiger's main targets - I mean if you google his name two of the first image results are him being lifted in lineouts vs Ireland

Would having a 4 specialists be better? Yeah, but I think this is making such a mountain out of a molehill

I guess where I come from here is less on our ball and more on trying to disrupt the opponent's. We've seen time and again how disrupting a set piece has a disproportionate effect on the game. So I want 2 top class line out exponents in a team (ideally the locks but not too fussed on shirt numbers as long as we have them plus one other who can take a couple here and there).

Unless the thrower or lifters get it wrong we've only really got Itoje who can challenge opposition ball (and even he's not done it much recently). So….don't throw it near Maro. Martin's not that threat, but stick Chessum in there and there's immediately a lot more pressure and doubt. And if only one jumper is going to attack, the opponents still don't know which one.

 

[Geordie]

Martin's lineout work is a concern. Its the weakest part of his game when as a lock it should be one of the strongest. He doesn't get thrown to that often and when he does he often doesn't catch it cleanly. Tigers throw to Wells or Henderson more often.
I like Martin as an alround player but it does make England's lineout problems more difficult when he is in the team.

Thats why Chessum is in the equation at 6. Im pretty positive if he was match fit, he'd have started.

In a year or so it could get interesting if the 3 x 6'9ers from the U20 side come through!

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Martin's lineout work is a concern. Its the weakest part of his game when as a lock it should be one of the strongest. He doesn't get thrown to that often and when he does he often doesn't catch it cleanly. Tigers throw to Wells or Henderson more often.
I like Martin as an alround player but it does make England's lineout problems more difficult when he is in the team.

If he's that **** why did he take as many lineouts as Itoje did last 6N?

 

[MarkyH]

BUT LINEOUTS

 

[Saintjay]

Decent calling, movement and deception the lineout should be fine. Defence then it's more about the maul than steal so again not overly concerned.

Borthwick is a lineout nauce so it's really low on my expected issues at the weekend.

 

[IT157]

Sorry, I forget that we're not all middle-aged+

Hill, Back, Dallaglio

Unfortunately I am, but I was just being a bit cheeky.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

If he's that **** why did he take as many lineouts as Itoje did last 6N?

Because twice as many were called to him?





(Sorry, couldn't resist).

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Why the hell is Genge and Stuart starting when they can't jump in the line out?

Ridiculous.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Why the hell is Genge and Stuart starting when they can't jump in the line out?

Ridiculous.

I'm sure both would look majestic as they are thrown up in the air.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Me at 6.30 when neither Thornley or Kinsella have leaked the team:

 

[ShropshireAllBlack]

Me at 6.30 when neither Thornley or Kinsella have leaked the team:

View attachment 22759

Obviously Faz Snr is the leak…..

 

[BPM]

Why the hell is Genge and Stuart starting when they can't jump in the line out?

Ridiculous.

Cowan-Dickie too. Surely he can catch his own throws?

 

[Scotty]

Good to see LCD starting he's deserves it and is a big aggressive player, whilst I like George he is in decline(doesn't me not good enough) and I'd say on for LCD is ahead.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Thornley got to it eventually

IRELAND (possible) v England: Hugo Keenan (Leinster); Mack Hansen (Connacht), Garry Ringrose (Leinster), Bundee Aki (Connacht), James Lowe (Leinster); Sam Prendergast (Leinster), Jamison Gibson-Park (Leinster); Andrew Porter (Leinster), Rónan Kelleher (Leinster), Finlay Bealham (Connacht); James Ryan (Leinster), Tadhg Beirne (Munster); Ryan Baird (Leinster), Josh van der Flier (Leinster), Caelan Doris (Leinster, capt).

Replacements: Dan Sheehan (Leinster), Cian Healy (Leinster), Thomas Clarkson (Leinster), Joe McCarthy (Leinster), Jack Conan (Leinster), Conor Murray (Munster), Jack Crowley (Munster), Robbie Henshaw (Leinster).

I like it. Not far off mine, arguably an improvement with Conan over POM.

 

[Groundhog]

Come on England!!! Score some facking tries

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Cowan-Dickie too. Surely he can catch his own throws?

Catching under pressure's not his forte. At least not when stationed on the wing.