[2025 Six Nations] France vs Wales - 31/01/25

[Leonormous Boozer]

I didn't really see any of what your claiming, I'll just put it down as jealousy toward the greatest ever 6N coach.

Ok, you missed a lot. I wouldn't swap Wales run under Gatland for Ireland's successes in that period so no jealousy.

 

[dirty harry]

Ok, you missed a lot. I wouldn't swap Wales run under Gatland for Ireland's successes in that period so no jealousy.

You wouldn't?

You wouldn't swap Irelands 6 nations and RWC record for Wales superior 6N and RWC record in the Gatland era?

Your lying! Noone turns down an extra grand slam, or getting a monkey like a RWC quarter 100% failure off their chest!

 

[BPM]

I didn't really see any of what your claiming, I'll just put it down as jealousy toward the greatest ever 6N coach.

I assume you mean 'head coach'. If not, that accolade belongs to Shaun Edwards.

 

[dirty harry]

I assume you mean 'head coach'. If not, that accolade belongs to Shaun Edwards.

Of course I mean head coach, come on, don't try to take away from the greatest ever welshmen...

With the 2nd greatest ever welshman hahahaha

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

You wouldn't?

You wouldn't swap Irelands 6 nations and RWC record for Wales superior 6N and RWC record in the Gatland era?

Your lying! Noone turns down an extra grand slam, or getting a monkey like a RWC quarter 100% failure off their chest!

I'm really not. Since Gatland took over Wales we have the same number of slams and one more championship.

Two 4ths in a world cup v beating NZ five times with a series win there, a series win in Oz, a series draw in SA and a better home record than Wales vs all three. No question I'm taking Ireland's record.

Sure even throw Wales' slam in 05 to the mix and I take our record.

Not beating NZ in near living memory is a bigger monkey off the back than an RWC QF imo, you can be good enough to get to a semi final whilst not being good enough to beat NZ.

 

[dirty harry]

I'm really not. Since Gatland took over Wales we have the same number of slams and one more championship.

Two 4ths in a world cup v beating NZ five times with a series win there, a series win in Oz, a series draw in SA and a better home record than Wales vs all three. No question I'm taking Ireland's record.

Sure even throw Wales' slam in 05 to the mix and I take our record.

Not beating NZ in near living memory is a bigger monkey off the back than an RWC QF imo, you can be good enough to get to a semi final whilst not being good enough to beat NZ.

Hahahahahah

Why would I add 05, it was pre Gatland, the same way I would only class 08-19 as Gatlands record, his return was to mop up a mess post Pivac.

Fact is Gatland is the most successful 6N coach, noone else has won 3 slams, noone else could possibly have done any better since 2023 with the wales team he had (arguably 1/4 final v Argentina aside, where Wales came out strong and individuals from the bench lost the game).

Imagine how many slams Ireland could have had had they not thrown their toys out the pram with Gatland, they could have at least 5 or 6, maybe not challenge the real 6N heritage nations of England Wales or France, but certainly get 2 clear of Scotland.

 

[dirty harry]

So time to delude myself again...

2003, Wales wooden spoon.
2004, Wales 1 win
2005, Wales GS
2006, Wales 1 win,
2007, Wales 1 win
2008, Wales GS

It's always darkest before the dawn, 05s GS came from Henry's hard work setting a platform, 2008 GS was Gatlands influence, so by my reckoning we should win the 2026 GS...

This year is just another building year, looking toward a 2026 strong tournament possible GS, leading to a definate 2027 GS and a RWC final.

Easy.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Hahahahahah

Why would I add 05, it was pre Gatland, the same way I would only class 08-19 as Gatlands record, his return was to mop up a mess post Pivac.

Fact is Gatland is the most successful 6N coach, noone else has won 3 slams, noone else could possibly have done any better since 2023 with the wales team he had (arguably 1/4 final v Argentina aside, where Wales came out strong and individuals from the bench lost the game).

Imagine how many slams Ireland could have had had they not thrown their toys out the pram with Gatland, they could have at least 5 or 6, maybe not challenge the real 6N heritage nations of England Wales or France, but certainly get 2 clear of Scotland.

I'm not disputing Gatland's 6n pedigree just that I wouldn't swap anything he achieved with Wales for what Schmidt and Farrell have brought here.

I agree Ireland ****** up by getting rid of Gatland, Eddie O'Sullivan and Declan Kidney were early professional coaches with amateir era hangovers, Gatland brought Wales tona professional level earlier.

But there's no jealousy. I did a write up on the now dormant rivalry between Ireland and Wales a few years ago now in an Ireland v Wales thread but unfortunately the search function isn't working for me to find it. Gatland threw himself in the middle of any bit of BS between Wales and Ireland in his first Wales stint, he doesn't like the IRFU and I don't blame him and he's behaved in a way that's clear that he wants to be a villain in Ireland*. That's where the dislike comes from.

I never really begrudged Wales their successes, always felt it was motivational for the Ireland team. Essesntially a barometer of what they should be able to replicate and aim to surpass considering the levels the relevant players play at in their clubs. They got there in the end once we found our own top class international coaches who fit the system.

*examples include saying his squad hate Ireland in 09, regular comments about Johnny Sexton's medical history, Lions comes into it rightly (not playing and then not picking Sexton in 2017, 2021 which were proven wrong) and then maybe wrongly in 2013 (although a real Irish fan will never admit it ). There's definitely more to it and Gatland Wales was my favourite international rivalry Ireland had before the knocks we've had with NZ in the last few years (They have the chance to shut the door on that one this year really).

 

[dirty harry]

I'm not disputing Gatland's 6n pedigree just that I wouldn't swap anything he achieved with Wales for what Schmidt and Farrell have brought here.

I agree Ireland ****** up by getting rid of Gatland, Eddie O'Sullivan and Declan Kidney were early professional coaches with amateir era hangovers, Gatland brought Wales tona professional level earlier.

But there's no jealousy. I did a write up on the now dormant rivalry between Ireland and Wales a few years ago now in an Ireland v Wales thread but unfortunately the search function isn't working for me to find it. Gatland threw himself in the middle of any bit of BS between Wales and Ireland in his first Wales stint, he doesn't like the IRFU and I don't blame him and he's behaved in a way that's clear that he wants to be a villain in Ireland*. That's where the dislike comes from.

I never really begrudged Wales their successes, always felt it was motivational for the Ireland team. Essesntially a barometer of what they should be able to replicate and aim to surpass considering the levels the relevant players play at in their clubs. They got there in the end once we found our own top class international coaches who fit the system.

*examples include saying his squad hate Ireland in 09, regular comments about Johnny Sexton's medical history, Lions comes into it rightly (not playing and then not picking Sexton in 2017, 2021 which were proven wrong) and then maybe wrongly in 2013 (although a real Irish fan will never admit it ). There's definitely more to it and Gatland Wales was my favourite international rivalry Ireland had before the knocks we've had with NZ in the last few years (They have the chance to shut the door on that one this year really).

Ok so we probably agree on most of this.

2013 was 100% not a mistake, BOD crept onto tour, and only slept Davies spot warm. I was in Aus for that tour, and the hissy fits that came from the Irish contingent was incredibly funny, I remember coming down for breakfast, after dropping the camper off and checking into a Sydney hotel, on the morning of team selection, and one irishman threw his cheerios across the room lol.

I'd also argue 2017 wasn't either, Sexton was an Irish talisman, he wasn't a great player in general, but he was a great Irish man.

I don't remember Gatland saying he hated Ireland, I remember him saying the Welsh hated the Irish, and him playing up the rivalry. I would have taken this as a sign of respect if I was Irish, 08, and 09nwas a GS a peice, and the 09 game was tight (I was sat right in front of wales post when that kick went over).

I also get why Ireland have moved on from us, since 2019 we have been a mess, whereas Irelands government and IrFU have really coordinated to make the Irish players and provinces richer and more tax free than anyone, IMHO this Ireland group is like the Toulon team of a decade ago, financial privilage has brought success. I'd also liken Ireland to current day Scotland, utilising foreign player policy better than anyone (except the disgraceful French strategy).

 

[Lé Ddanno]

**** me when's KO again?

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Ok so we probably agree on most of this.

2013 was 100% not a mistake, BOD crept onto tour, and only slept Davies spot warm. I was in Aus for that tour, and the hissy fits that came from the Irish contingent was incredibly funny, I remember coming down for breakfast, after dropping the camper off and checking into a Sydney hotel, on the morning of team selection, and one irishman threw his cheerios across the room lol.

I'd also argue 2017 wasn't either, Sexton was an Irish talisman, he wasn't a great player in general, but he was a great Irish man.

I don't remember Gatland saying he hated Ireland, I remember him saying the Welsh hated the Irish, and him playing up the rivalry. I would have taken this as a sign of respect if I was Irish, 08, and 09nwas a GS a peice, and the 09 game was tight (I was sat right in front of wales post when that kick went over).

I also get why Ireland have moved on from us, since 2019 we have been a mess, whereas Irelands government and IrFU have really coordinated to make the Irish players and provinces richer and more tax free than anyone, IMHO this Ireland group is like the Toulon team of a decade ago, financial privilage has brought success. I'd also liken Ireland to current day Scotland, utilising foreign player policy better than anyone (except the disgraceful French strategy).

Nah, not going to bother lol.