[2025 Six Nations] England vs France - 08/02/25

[NotTooAmused]

struggled so long to replace the Tuilagi

I reckon England would still be picking prime Tuilagi, he's just not a player you ever replace.

 

[Lé Ddanno]

I reckon England would still be picking prime Tuilagi, he's just not a player you ever replace.

True, but prime Tuilagi was only something like 2011 to early 2013. Been largely broken ever since apart from the 2019 WC anomaly

 

[Which Tyler]

I reckon England would still be picking prime Tuilagi, he's just not a player you ever replace.

Probably, yes - which isn't really the problem.
The problem was having no PlanB for when he wasn't available, and an alternative ready to slot in.

You could easily say the same about Curry / Underhill - so often injured / unavailable, but world class when they are there (unlike a lot of Manu's caps).
The difference is, that we've another Curry, an experienced Earl, a Chessum or CCS who can take the shirt and know what they're doing, and even enabled to do so.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I reckon England would still be picking prime Tuilagi, he's just not a player you ever replace.

No issues with Tuilagi in his prime. He was a real asset. The issues came from the many occasions when he was not available / in poor form and we just picked another player to try to fill the role Tuilagi did, likewise with Vunipola. No issue building a plan around them when they were in their prime but when they were on the hospital bed more than the pitch, we needed to adapt beyond trying to get another player to do their role.

We need to build our plans around the players we actually have available, not a player who would fit in perfectly but is pure fiction.

 

[AngloScotsHybrid]

I agree with this in general but how much of mobile props vs heavy duty scrummaging units is a coaching thing and how much of it is genetics, of course pounds can be gained and different types of Gym work done but bases and ceilings can only be influenced so much, or is it more that dynamic mobile props were given more attention and opportunity so the classic scrummaging ones dropped off the radar?

You are not telling me that it was a freak of genetics that in the 90s and noughties we had good scrummaging props like Leonard, Rowntree, Vickery and White, and then suddenly by a genetic twist we have mobile props like Bevan Rodd and Kyle Sinckler. Its down to coaching and selection. Why did Will Collier not get selected for England? It was selection policy not genetics. In the 90s he would have got picked.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Think you're misunderstanding where I'm coming from. I agree, he's a very brave defender and I've regularly said as much.

My point was that he took some fearful physical hammering in his first outings at FB. Can't remember which specific games but he did take a bit of a battering.

I'm not hanging it on Aki at the weekend at all, although he should have done better to at least slow him down.

If my use of 'speed bump' you thought I was implying he was a revolving door or coward, I totally wasn't. But at FB you do get exposed and it's simple fact that would quite often be against bigger guys than he is moving at pace. That makes it difficult for him plus playing there only infrequently he would still have to learn the nuances of positioning.

And wasn't that exactly what happened when he was faced with McVdM in the run to Jones try?

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

And wasn't that exactly what happened when he was faced with McVdM in the run to Jones try?

I think a lot of players would have been a speed bump there to be honest.

 

[Jimbo]

And wasn't that exactly what happened when he was faced with McVdM in the run to Jones try?

This is laughable, DVM was still very influential, arguably the least so in recent fixtures against England, put Steward at 15 and we can strongly suspect from previous encounters he doesn't do any better, the only other option available would really be Carpenter, which I do want to see given game time, this however probably isn't the fixture to introduce him.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

This is laughable, DVM was still very influential, arguably the least so in recent fixtures against England, put Steward at 15 and we can strongly suspect from previous encounters he doesn't do any better, the only other option available would really be Carpenter, which I do want to see given game time, this however probably isn't the fixture to introduce him.

It's not laughable, just saying that Smith was in a no win position through no fault of his own. Others may have struggled too, but a bigger specialist would have had a better chance.