[2023 Six Nations] England vs Scotland - 4 February 2023

[Reiser99]

Injuries may gave forced Borthwick's hand but I felt he got the replacements wrong overall and that's where we lost the game.

 

[Crash Hamster]

England vs Scotland - Match Statistics - Six Nations 2023 - 4 Feb, 2023 - ESPN

Get a summary of the England vs Scotland, Six Nations 2023 4 Feb, 2023 rugby match.

www.espn.co.uk

Match stats for those interested

Interesting numbers for Smith and Farrell. I suspect that you could probably find different numbers as it's not an exact science, but I think it shows that <shock> Farrell is not an international 12.

 

[BPM]

Massive overreactions here. I hoped we'd win and when we scored out third try, I thought we would, but ultimately I'm not surprised by the result.

Our defending for the first three tries was horrific. That was the difference between winning and losing. The attack was a lot better than what we've seen in recent times though and I thought there were plenty of positives to take away.

The suggestion that we should be hammering what is now a very good Scottish side is peak arrogance. Similarly, this weird notion that Borthwick was going to magically turn a side that's been out of form and lacking direction in to a winning team overnight is fanciful at best.

I'm disappointed, but I'll reserve judgement until Borthwick has had a chance to settle in.

 

[Groundhog]

Everyone in the English team is saving up for a Nintendo switch using their pocket money from their wife's boyfriend...... Except my boy Ollie

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Ending with Iseikwe Earl Ludlam was a mistake. Dombrandt with all his handling errors actually did some good stuff and i was surprised he came off. And Iseikwe was in the 19 shirt and i think should have come on for itoje, also think Ribbans should have been on the bench as he offers some attacking threat where as Iseikwe doesnt unfortunatly. For the end of the game the forwards balance was off IMO.

Isiekwe's only recently back from injury and to my mind he's now an out and out lock yet he came on at 6. Ribbans is probably in better form at the moment although Isiekwe's the medium / long term bet at lock.

We're generally too passive and miss someone like Underhill or Lawes who can change the whole tempo with a single physical play. Mystified why Hill never gets a look in.

Malins took his tries but he's still not remotely an international calibre wing. The Scottish wings showed the difference a fast power runner in the backs can make. On another day they might have fielded Graham who's a totally different type but would probably have caused us enormous problems too.

I desperately want Dombrandt to succeed as he's an intelligent footballer but he still doesn't convince and I can't help feeling he's just keeping the shirt warm for Mercer.

And among that lot, France or no France, was there really not room for Jack Willis in the 23?

Chessum went well although was joint tops pens conceded with Earl and surprise surprise Itoje. Chessum 10 tackles, 29 metres, Itoje 12 tackles, 2 metres and I'm fairly sure lost at least one of our line outs.

New regime, some new faces but a bit too much same old. But just one game, let's see what Borthwick can do in the coming matches after more time with the players.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Everyone in the English team is saving up for a Nintendo switch using their pocket money from their wife's boyfriend...... Except my boy Ollie

I like to think you're talking about me every time you praise your favourite Englishman called Ollie

 

[Geordie]

Read this and realised I couldn't tell you who played 13? Feel like it wasn't Manu but that's about it

Was Marchant. He's a cracking player but not showing this at top level at the moment...Time will tell...or maybe its why Eddie saw him on the wing.

I prefer Lawrence...we have Wil Joseph but something tells me Slade will still play a big part.

 

[Protalus rampart]

Everyone used to hammer Daly for his defensive mishaps so where's this energy for Malins and Stewards who got rings run around them?

Farrell and Smith doesn't work. Farrell although a great kicker has seemed to forget how to do it in recent England games.

England's forwards didn't front up against a much smaller pack on paper.

Scotland absolutely the better team today and have been for the last 4-5 years. Haven't been able to say that in my lifetime. Shame we'll bottle it against Wales as always…

 

[Jimbo]

Was Marchant. He's a cracking player but not showing this at top level at the moment...Time will tell...or maybe its why Eddie saw him on the wing.

I prefer Lawrence...we have Wil Joseph but something tells me Slade will still play a big part.

It's tough to tell but is this a lack of 12 not helping if your inside man does what he wants defensively and offers little outside of distribution it makes life tough, I'd love to see how he goes with a genuine 12 inside him.

 

[Geordie]

Isiekwe's only recently back from injury and to my mind he's now an out and out lock yet he came on at 6. Ribbans is probably in better form at the moment although Isiekwe's the medium / long term bet at lock.

Itoje is an issue for me. Small for international lock and not actually doing much. Ribbans and Chessum would be a far better lock combo

Mystified why Hill never gets a look in.

I know I bore....but it's baffling...

Malins took his tries but he's still not remotely an international calibre wing.

Agree completely. Murley could have scored those and defended WAY better

I desperately want Dombrandt to succeed I can't help feeling he's just keeping the shirt warm for Mercer.

Agree..he made a couple of good line runs but then didn't really offer much. Or Tom Willis ..he'll improve rapidly at Saracens. But does Dombrandt just need to adapt to the system...he knows Evans well...

And among that lot, France or no France, was there really not room for Jack Willis in the 23?

Again Agree...Ben Curry was incredibly poor

New regime, some new faces but a bit too much same old. But just one game, let's see what Borthwick can do in the coming matches after more time with the players.

The attack showed glimpses seriously good attack. They've had 11 days..and the defense will sort itself out also.
I think by the end of the 6n...England fans will be very positive....

 

[Geordie]

England's forwards didn't front up against a much smaller pack on paper.

Seriously doubt they were much smaller!!
I'd say they were bigger....

 

[Wasps92]

England have lost their first game in each of the last four Six Nations tournaments. Has that ever happened before?

 

[General Melchett]

We've definitely got this. We're putting 20+ points on the Scots. Pointless even hosting the match tbh. Scotland is finishing fifth

Congrats on winning the tool of the thread prize.

Just back from watching the game in an Irish pub in Chicago. Thought it was a tight game that could have gone either way. Don't get the doom and gloom for England - clear improvement in most basics. Defence could be better but the Scottish attack was superb and took their chances. DVDM immense and Tuipulotu & Jones at centre were also great. Chris Harris is great at organising the defence but today shows what can happen when you back your centres to attack. Ben White also very good. Thought we defended pretty well all things considered.

The typical Scottish thing to do would be to undo today's good work by losing to Wales next week and so hopefully we can send Gatland back to Wales with a sore bottom.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

If Rugby has xP this game would have England losing by 5 but with an xP advantage of 30 or so.

England loses by 6. Had about twice as many rucks and dominated territory. Probably did the big picture things required to win but Scotland was so much better when they had the opportunity to execute.

 

[Teddington Logic]

Chessum was excellent

Youngs was pants, with holes and skid marks

Farrell not a centre (and it was him who was out of position that led to DVDM first try rather than blame Marchant for missed tackle)

Malins, Steward, OHC, Watson and Youngs all very shaky in defence/tackling

Itoje peaked 3 years ago and has been on downward trend ever since but has "saracens invincibility" in terms of selection

B Curry not international standard

Dombrandt too inconsistent

Starting front row should be Marler, George, Cole
Youngs should never play again
Either Smith or Farrell as 10 with other on bench
Murley needs to play, lethal finisher and brilliant defender and jackaller
Malins should not be near 23 as his defence is hopeless
Earls should start
Steward needs crash course in defending.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Seriously doubt they were much smaller!!
I'd say they were bigger....

Well they had 2 out and out barrel shaped scrummaging props with no aspirations to play fly half.

And locks were 2.00 and 2.08 v 1.95 and 2.01.

Yet still managed to play the better running rugby. An alien might think that it would be a good idea to get the basics sorted.

 

[Teddington Logic]

Lets not forget, apart from one season in the Premiership, Borthwick's track record is unproven/mediocre at best

We should not expect miracles and it is highly unlikely that he is the New Messiah

 

[TommiG88]

The generic England haters saying that Scotland deserved their victory…

They defended well, yes, attacked when they had the chance yes, but overall they were on the back foot and England let them in. England failed in imports at areas whilst showing well in others

 

[Geordie]

Itoje peaked 3 years ago and has been on downward trend ever since but has "saracens invincibility" in terms of selection

Now that's interesting as I've been saying that for a while now and keep getting shot down.
If we can find a proper tight head lock I'd happily move Chessum to LH and drop Itoje. He's not worth his position at the moment and very small for an international lock.

 

[AlRums]

The generic England haters saying that Scotland deserved their victory…

They defended well, yes, attacked when they had the chance yes, but overall they were on the back foot and England let them in. England failed in imports at areas whilst showing well in others

And that's what wins matches